Do people just not recognise lame horses?

Nudibranch

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Unfortunately there's no better way to learn how to spot it than having a few problematic horses of your own...from abscesses to SI problems and in between, if there's one thing I can do it's see even slight lameness. I've seen enough to last a lifetime I think. And yes, that includes in my own horses, despite one of the more catty comments above.
 

AShetlandBitMeOnce

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If I didn't notice it myself I'd want an instructor or other person to tell me if they thought my horse was lame, surely people don't want to ride lame horses do they? Mind you, nothing really amazes me anymore

I will admit to riding my boy when he was lame. This is after being intermittent with low level lameness for a month or so, the vet saying that he was unable to see anything on a work up as he would be lame/sound/lame by the day. I rested him for a couple weeks, took him for walks, tried lunging him and then had no choice but to ride softly in the school to see if I could bring on a degree of lameness to find out where to start on a work up.

It broke my heart to do it but vet and I agreed it was the best option.. I am sure however, that some people on the yard thought I was the worst owner in the world.
 

Leo Walker

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There is a clip of a horse on here at the moment that definitely looks lame behind to me but lots of people saying how well its going.
Maybe its just me but doesnt look right on off hind.

Its lame but I honestly cannot be bothered with the nonsense that will kick off if anyone says so. It was in part that that made me take a step back and wonder if people really cant see it!
 

chocolategirl

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I’m so paranoid about lameness (2 of ours have arthritic issues) that I take all 3 to my vet every 3 months for a ‘work up’!🙈🤣 he watches them trot up, then watches them on the lunge. Then after they’ve seen the vet, the physio visits them as a matter of routine. It might sound over the top to some, but I just think of it as responsible horsemanship😏 I’d never forgive myself if there was a problem I didn’t pick up on. All 3 are so genuine, they’ll just carry on performing no matter what 😔
 
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Pearlsasinger

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Its lame but I honestly cannot be bothered with the nonsense that will kick off if anyone says so. It was in part that that made me take a step back and wonder if people really cant see it!


I must admit that I often wonder if people have actually watched the videos they put up for others to see! Obviously if you think your horse has a problem and are looking for other opinions you will have done but some of the 'Aren't we wonderful?' videos make me cringe!
 

SBJT

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this is where it particularly helps if you know your own horses well, because then if something happens you know that it's not *right* somehow.
The problem is sometimes then convincing other people that you're not mad :confused: I've certainly had that a few times but by the time the vets are involved it's always become clear pretty quickly.

I get frustrated with instructors not telling clients their horses are lame. I know one with a fair few lame horses belonging to regular clients. I don't buy the argument about needing to keep clients sweet, I think the welfare of the horse should trump that. I'd certainly be glad if my trainer told me my horse was off, if I wasn't aware, rather than just take my money and let me ride it into the ground.
Hot damn! I’ve just come back from the vet as I was convinced my horse was lame and both my instructor and carrier said they couldn’t really see it. Things just didn’t feel right to me.

My vet has this electronic lameness device that they put on the horses head, legs and back. It feeds into a program. Sure enough a lameness on the front right. They could even give the grades and percentage changes as we nerve blocked up the leg. Very cool and hopefully we have a positive result now.
 

little_critter

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If I didn't notice it myself I'd want an instructor or other person to tell me if they thought my horse was lame, surely people don't want to ride lame horses do they? Mind you, nothing really amazes me anymore
Or alternatively you think something might not be quite right but you’d like a professional to confirm your hunch by saying “do you realise your horse is not quite right behind?”
 

HorsesRule2009

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Some people have the special skill set of only being able to spot lameness (real or otherwise) in other people's horses but not their own 😜
This! I couldn't agree more!
Where I'm currently working /living (wwoofing) we've some lame horse's at home that they can't see are lame yet they criticise other people for having lame horse's!
The same goes for weight we've a few that are very light! And I'm used to seeing fit not fat horses and these are definitely under weight not just fit/lean and again they can't see it but criticise others for having horse's on poor condition!! 🤦🏼‍♀️
 

maya2008

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Lame horses are good money makers for instructors, many of whom try to treat the symptoms rather than asking themselves why there is a problem.

Once, many years ago, I saw an instructor tell a rider to hit the horse on the shoulder on each corner to stop it falling in. Horse was lame behind, struggling to reach under itself and balance via the inside leg. Diagnosed with sacroiliac problems a few months later.

I haven’t yet found an instructor who is willing to look at the horse as a whole and work with the rider to find a way forward that helps that particular horse. And I have tried many! I remember one - informed said person that mare has PSSM and how that affects her. Say I am looking for ideas/exercises to strengthen her quarters beyond my usual set. Cue endless trot which he says is fine (but focuses on my legs which are moving as a result of her ‘not quite right’ movement). Then we canter and finally he can see it. Oh... he says. And has no ideas. Well, other than kicking her on...
 

be positive

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I see many horses that appear unlevel behind and have had a few in to 'sort out' or teach their owners on, I always step back and look at the whole picture because more often than not it is not a true lameness but a weakness caused by something mechanical, a badly fitting saddle, an unbalanced rider, unfit horse, a combination of several things, once broken down and addressed most will quickly improve and start to work in a level way, if I think they are lame then a vet would be involved but many just require a person on the ground who can look at the bigger picture and start the process of fixing it and educating the rider.

This week I watched a lesson, I had never seen the horse, rider or trainer before, I flinched frequently when horse took unlevel steps behind, more noticeable when doing lateral work, yet as I was going ouch the trainer often said 'good' I said nothing as it was not my business to do so, I was confused about the whole session where I saw no improvement, a tense horse that was wrong behind yet both rider and trainer were pleased with how it had gone, it is hard to keep your opinions to yourself in the circumstances but I knew my thoughts would have been extremely unwelcome, luckily my own clients want me to be honest, if they are not they will have to go elsewhere.
 

SEL

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Google "recognising subtle lameness" - it's a great video and they've done others that I've found really helpful too.


Although it turns out I have an eye for lameness - just not the ability to fix it!

@HorsesRule2009 - sorry, don't know why it didn't pop your post in as I did reply to it.
 

milliepops

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I see many horses that appear unlevel behind and have had a few in to 'sort out' or teach their owners on, I always step back and look at the whole picture because more often than not it is not a true lameness but a weakness caused by something mechanical, a badly fitting saddle, an unbalanced rider, unfit horse, a combination of several things, once broken down and addressed most will quickly improve and start to work in a level way, if I think they are lame then a vet would be involved but many just require a person on the ground who can look at the bigger picture and start the process of fixing it and educating the rider.
I completely agree with this, I *think* I have one of these at the moment but I do find myself second guessing things all the time... I know as a rider I can make a wonky horse straight and in some cases ride a lame horse "sound", which does mean you have to be really critical with yourself about how much of the improvement is sustained when you aren't on it o_O there's a fine line between the work being almost like physio & delivering improvements, and just papering over a problem. I think as an owner/rider it can be hard to work out which is which sometimes because you get too close to the horse.

I do think the feedback you get from the feel in the saddle is really informative though and try to remember that is a good way to assess it. I rode one for someone last year which became straight/level but just didn't really progress, I suggested it was time for the vet but owner didn't agree and instead decided to sell it - failed the vet :( I've decided failure to progress is a useful indicator as much as anything else.
 

SEL

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I see many horses that appear unlevel behind and have had a few in to 'sort out' or teach their owners on, I always step back and look at the whole picture because more often than not it is not a true lameness but a weakness caused by something mechanical, a badly fitting saddle, an unbalanced rider, unfit horse, a combination of several things, once broken down and addressed most will quickly improve and start to work in a level way, if I think they are lame then a vet would be involved but many just require a person on the ground who can look at the bigger picture and start the process of fixing it and educating the rider.

This week I watched a lesson, I had never seen the horse, rider or trainer before, I flinched frequently when horse took unlevel steps behind, more noticeable when doing lateral work, yet as I was going ouch the trainer often said 'good' I said nothing as it was not my business to do so, I was confused about the whole session where I saw no improvement, a tense horse that was wrong behind yet both rider and trainer were pleased with how it had gone, it is hard to keep your opinions to yourself in the circumstances but I knew my thoughts would have been extremely unwelcome, luckily my own clients want me to be honest, if they are not they will have to go elsewhere.

I do think it takes a combination of experience and talent to instruct as you've described. Like @maya2008 mine has PSSM and I've struggled so hard to find instructors who can help me ride her 'for her' that I gave up with lessons. If she's having a stiff day then there's no point in faster work - & I'm prepared to have a lesson in walk - but so few instructors can adjust their teaching accordingly. I know they're out there, but it's frustrating when you explain the background and it still becomes all about leg / whip / pressure even when the horse has physical limitations.
 

Bernster

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I think the above is an important distinction. Unlevel doesn’t always mean unsound. But I have had 2 ins tell me my horse’s wasn’t right, once when she was booked in to the vet and once when we were doing the rehab and treatment.
 

Leo Walker

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Alot of people can't see lameness but alot of people also don't know the difference between stiff and lame.

Is there an agreed difference? theres the stiff MP describes, with an adult horse who has never been worked properly and is slowly being introduced to going correctly, theres the stiff you get with an arthritic horse as it comes out of the stable, then theres the stiff you get which is a lame horse with what looks to be SI issues which appears a bit stiff but is in fact lame.

The difference for me is that the first is improving, the second is being worked gently to help a medical condition, and the third is lame.

I had what I thought was the first, a month of only tiny improvements and the vet was involved, treatment given and he actually genuinely became the first. Theres far, far too much of the third floating about either willfully or ignorantly being ignored.
 

SamBean

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Lots of people don’t realise that lateral saddle slipping = hind lameness. Or that some of a person's position issues can be due to lameness in the horse. Rehabbing my PSSM mare after surgery was interesting - my feet were swinging forwards in rising trot. Clue - ONLY on her! She's much better now and it no longer happens. Contact issues = often issue in neck/back/hind legs if teeth done regularly (but lots of money is made selling fancy bits...). And endlessly so on...

Everyone does their best, but it's harder if people only have one horse, see it every day and the lameness is subtle.

Interesting as my right leg goes crazy on one of mine, he's being treated for ulcers so only light work to report back but will mention this when he is scoped Friday. He has had a soundness check before we started looking further as hasn't been displaying ulcer type symptoms but also sensitive this side of his back too. Definitely worth mentioning, thanks!
 
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Roxylola

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A lot of video I see though the horses look like they are just sort of bimbling along at something that might be thinking about being a trot. I do sometimes wonder if they would still look unlevel if they were actually going properly forward
 

SEL

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A lot of video I see though the horses look like they are just sort of bimbling along at something that might be thinking about being a trot. I do sometimes wonder if they would still look unlevel if they were actually going properly forward

I think the opposite can apply too. They bumble along in a sort of jog trot and its only when pushed forward lameness is more obvious.
 

be positive

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I think the opposite can apply too. They bumble along in a sort of jog trot and its only when pushed forward lameness is more obvious.

Which is where experience is so useful, the old pony here will sometimes be a bit stiff in one hind when warming up but is fine after a circuit or so as long as he is working forward, if he was allowed to bimble along, which is what I suspect he did in his last home, then he would probably get worse and have to be retired again, as it is the more he does the better he looks and he moves more freely as he starts to use himself properly, if they do not improve with warming up then it needs to be investigated not ignored as seems to be the case so often with ones labelled as stiff.
 
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