Do some horses genuinely not have the ability to jump?

MaisieMooandCometToo

MaisieMooandCometToo

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It's basically as the title says, are some horses genuinely unable to jump 'properly' or is it just that some horses will require extensive amounts of schooling to enable themselves to jump 'properly'?

Maisie is a 6yr old (nearly 7) appaloosa x cob mare, she's approximately 15hh and we've had her for almost 11 months. We've known her since she was 3yrs old, she had a year out from a field injury to her leg and was re-started as a 4yr old. During her two ridden years before she came to us she was primarily a hunter, although she has taken part in just about every activity except polo and racing!

mais-1.jpg


When we bought her we knew she was somewhat unable to jump, she had approximately 95% of all obstacle she attempted down although she genuinely seemed to enjoy attempting them. We decided it would be in her interest to stop jumping regularly and go right back to the flatwork basics as she was very green schooling wise.

Her flatwork has come on leaps and bounds, she now uses her hind legs properly, she has a lot more balance, our instructor is willing to say she has 3 good paces and her canter is 4 beat not a scramble of legs! Last week she went back to old owners and we did BD Intro A training session where instead of her usual 5's she was gaining 7's. Fantastic! So with this success we thought although she still has a way to go we could start the jumping lessons again?

So far I would say she has improved, her knock-down rate has fallen to about 20% and if you can find the *exact* canter she almost jumps correctly but 95% of the time, it's just a huge uncomfortable scramble of legs. She genuinely seems to enjoy the jumping (i say this because she turns herself into the fences!!) but she still appears to be lost on how to do it?

Is it just a case of keeping the flatwork lessons going and introducing some polework and jumping lessons. Can she be taught the technique or will she always be awkwardly untalented?
Here's her 'jumping' (Do not cc me- I am aware I have a shocking position- I am in shock that I haven't come off her!!)
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And these are somewhat better attempts:
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Oh and yes we've had back/teeth/feet/saddle checked :)

Chocolate cake if you get this far!
 
I do think some horses take longer to "get it" than others. Our now 5 yr old SJ superstar was a right blonde dizzy thing when it came to cantering when I broke her. She just couldnt understand where to put her legs. I even had the thought of " what if this horse NEVER canters"?? But she did (eventually!!) sort herself out and is now jumping 1.05sj tracks and eventing. It just takes time for them to organise their legs!

You're lucky - your mare is GORGEOUS and obvioustly keen and enjoying work. IMHO you have done thr right thing by taking her back to basics, however I would suggest loose jumping her. That way she will be able to figure out where the legs go without a rider. I have found that loose jumping really helps horses to figure out how to use themselves over a fence, then ypou can repeat it with a rider ontop.

A firend who's horse I have helped out with quite alot was very ungainly jumping (would basically just plough through fences quite happily!) and we did lots of loose jumping and flatwork - really getting him working through from behind and using his hocks and being more uphill - to begin with, then re-introduced jumping under saddle with lots of grids and placing poles, so neither horse or rider had to worry about the take off stride, just the shape over the fence.

Hope this helps!
 
Oh bless her, she looks a sweetie.
In terms of your mare I don't really know but I have come across a couple of horses that just we'rent cut out for it. They just couldn't do it. One enjoyed it immensely but he just sort of got over them somehow but would send poles flying, he became a dressage horse.
Another was the same he would literally fall over the fence. He was owned by a decent rider but by the time he was 10 she gave up on teaching him to jump and he became a really good endurance horse instead.
There are others who are talented but who just lack the bravery and don't enjoy the sensation of flying through the air they don't make jumpers as they simply don't like it.
Others are average but with training, better balance and strength do get better and while never world beaters do become competent.
It's like everything some are better at it than others! Some horses have very unusual techniques but they get over the fences and can jump big! Not all top showjumpers have perfect techniques.
One of my jump trainers says if a horse can jump, it can jump and while technique can be improved a bit horses all have their own different ways of jumping, some more textbook then others and they tend to keep their way of jumping their whole life, that was just his view though.
 
We all know that some have more ability than others, and some are slower learners but the jumps you have are so small that most horses would "step2 over them as she is doing. Perhaps practice over something a little larger which is inviting looking, and focus on a good quality canter to help her.

She's lovely, BTW :)
 
Trot poles into a fence make a massive difference into them being able to organise themselves. It also teaches them the correct way to push off on both hind legs.

Saying that though I used to be under the assumption that every horse could jump then I rode someone else's horse and it was completely talentless. It would struggle to jump bigger than 2'6. Despite years of work it has never got any better!
 
I bought a TB out of training who - seriously - could not jump anything bigger than 3" and forget spreads (he always tried to put down even on small ones). He was such a laid back horse though that I ended up selling him to a novice rider who then had great fun hooning around 2.6" and 2.9" courses. Horse was 16.3 and I have never since sat on such a talentless horse where jumping was concerned!. He was also full brother to Barton Bank so all had had great hopes for him.

However, where he made up, big time, was for being just one of the nicest natured horses I have ever come across. Novice friend took him for a months trial at our yard and they just clicked. She didn't push him out of his comfort zone, he didn't scare her and between them they formed a great partnership.
 
MaisieMooandCometToo said:
It's basically as the title says, are some horses genuinely unable to jump 'properly' or is it just that some horses will require extensive amounts of schooling to enable themselves to jump 'properly'?

Maisie is a 6yr old (nearly 7) appaloosa x cob mare, she's approximately 15hh and we've had her for almost 11 months. We've known her since she was 3yrs old, she had a year out from a field injury to her leg and was re-started as a 4yr old. During her two ridden years before she came to us she was primarily a hunter, although she has taken part in just about every activity except polo and racing!

mais-1.jpg


When we bought her we knew she was somewhat unable to jump, she had approximately 95% of all obstacle she attempted down although she genuinely seemed to enjoy attempting them. We decided it would be in her interest to stop jumping regularly and go right back to the flatwork basics as she was very green schooling wise.

Her flatwork has come on leaps and bounds, she now uses her hind legs properly, she has a lot more balance, our instructor is willing to say she has 3 good paces and her canter is 4 beat not a scramble of legs! Last week she went back to old owners and we did BD Intro A training session where instead of her usual 5's she was gaining 7's. Fantastic! So with this success we thought although she still has a way to go we could start the jumping lessons again?

So far I would say she has improved, her knock-down rate has fallen to about 20% and if you can find the *exact* canter she almost jumps correctly but 95% of the time, it's just a huge uncomfortable scramble of legs. She genuinely seems to enjoy the jumping (i say this because she turns herself into the fences!!) but she still appears to be lost on how to do it?

Is it just a case of keeping the flatwork lessons going and introducing some polework and jumping lessons. Can she be taught the technique or will she always be awkwardly untalented?
Here's her 'jumping' (Do not cc me- I am aware I have a shocking position- I am in shock that I haven't come off her!!)
awk.jpg

And these are somewhat better attempts:
awkb.jpg

awkkk.jpg


Oh and yes we've had back/teeth/feet/saddle checked :)

Chocolate cake if you get this far!
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Last Picture.... it looks like you are wearing pants over your breeches?!!!
 
Keep working on it and she will get the idea. We had a young heavyweight cob to school and he was unbelievably clumsy - tipped upside down in a ditch with his owner on the first morning's cubbing!
Loads of grid work helped him, and then once I was confident he would stay upright :D he went on a lot of fun rides where we would jump as many small, well built fences as possible.
Presumably if your horse has hunted then she will be used to cross country fences, and you can use these to build her confidence, but make sure you keep her in balance over them and don't just go flat out.
The cob improved beyond all recognition and even won a WH class (with the only clear round) at the age of 6.
 
Hmm, build wise I would certainly say there's no reason why she shouldn't be able to jump well. How does she approach fences - is she rushing or can you keep a balanced canter? It just likes, in all the picture the horse (I don't know if that is you or not) and rider are not really 'together' as it were. Are you having instruction from a showjumping instructor? If not I would consider getting an instructor who does a lot of jumping and knows what they are talking about. Some general instructors are not brilliant when it come to techniques to use to encourage a horse to jump.

I would porbably be interested to either lunge or free school her over some poles and fences and see how she does on her own and what shape she makes. I would also consider useing poles in front and behind the fence to encourage a nice balnced canter and stride to the fence. Maybe also try popping two poles at the side of the fence in a 'V' so they meet in near the middle of the fence. This encourages the horse to jump to the centre of the fence as well as picking their feet up a bit better.

You may well find she does do better over bigger fences but i wouldn't really try that as yet - unless as a lungeing/free schooling exercise. It looks really like her balance is still not quite right.
 
Luci07 said:
I bought a TB out of training who - seriously - could not jump anything bigger than 3" and forget spreads (he always tried to put down even on small ones). He was such a laid back horse though that I ended up selling him to a novice rider who then had great fun hooning around 2.6" and 2.9" courses. Horse was 16.3 and I have never since sat on such a talentless horse where jumping was concerned!. He was also full brother to Barton Bank so all had had great hopes for him.
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But IIRC Barton Bank was also a dodgy jumper who was sent to an eventer to be schooled over fences.
 
I think some horses are just generally not suited to it. But I wouldnt give up yet, I'd just keep doing gridwork etc. and jump small courses (the spookier the better, hopefully she'll begin giving them a bit more air and thus make a better shape). I had a youngster a few years back that I remember was dreadful to jump to begin with - he was just a little 13.2hh welsh x arab, he cleared them but badly - legs everywhere. If he touched a fence, he would land as if he'd broken his leg (literally canter along on 3 legs!) until he realised actually he hadn't, he was fine. The pony took a long time, but eventually turned into a jumping superstar - I spoke to his owners the other day who said that their 9yo daughter is jumping 1.05m tracks and 1.10 at home no problem with him (he's only small!).
 
I've had this sort of horse before and although I'd say a lot of it was time (and possibly some biger fences -with placing/canter/trot poles to keep you right) I've found that a spin out over smallish solid XC fences helps.
 
i think that some horses just don't care enough about hitting wood to make enough of an effort to jump properly. however, it sounds like your mare is improving and so i would keep at it. as measles says perhaps try bigger jumps to see if that works- or XC fences- in company if necessary....
 
MaisieMooandCometToo said:
During her two ridden years before she came to us she was primarily a hunter, although she has taken part in just about every activity except polo and racing!
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How was her jumping out on the hunting field? Can you take her back out hunting to see if she improves in a greater space? Sometimes having to make it round corners in the school can be unbalancing if the horse is green and may affect the jumping ability until they are better schooled.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought canter was meant to be 3-beat, not 4?
 
Luci07 said:
Last Picture.... it looks like you are wearing pants over your breeches?!!!
Click to expand...

No, those pink things would be (way) over the knee socks and the black things would be my joddies :D

Roody2 said:
How was her jumping out on the hunting field?
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought canter was meant to be 3-beat, not 4?
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Horrendous, the only reason she didn't refuse them was because she was going too fast to stop, the other horses were going over and she had much more aggressive riders than I on her. Apparently she did 3ft fences with one girl but after that she refused to jump for a while.

:o sshh the 3 is right next to the 4!!

Regarding jump size, she has done 2ft6 courses in much the same style, she also did a chase me charlie where once it went past 2ft6 she refused it so although I can understand the point I'm not really sure it's applicable to her.

Regarding xc, have done 2ft3 course on her, she was a babe but she still had the same approach, friend has done a fun ride on her following my pony and she jumped about 2ft9 but also quite awkwardly although there we did note that she tended not to hit the bigger fences but the little ones.

Regarding our togetherness- I think we're in different galaxies jumping:rolleyes: I either don't leave the saddle or have wayyy too much air time, I'm sure we'll get there :rolleyes::cool:

Regarding loose schooling, gridwork, polework- all sounds very good to me, shall embark on this little adventure with her!

And if anyone is still there- it was suggested to me that I jump her without boots to see if that gives her some respect for the obstacles. Do you think this is a fair thing to do to her? Would you only do this over plastic poles or would you be willing to try it with wooden poles and/or solid fences?

She is the nicest mare I've ever met and she has such a lovely genuine nature, I would love for her to be able to jump but I'm just as happy with her if she can't and I wouldn't want to do it if it would hurt her in anyway.
 
There is a difference between a horse that's careless, as in it would rather have the rail than not in a close situation, and a horse that's not jumping in at least a workable form. No offence to you or the work you've done but, especially for a horse who has done that much jumping, she looks like she doesn't know what to do!

There are horses that really struggle with their jumping. I know a stallion who is famous for his bad jumping offspring (a very funny friend of mine once observed about one of them, "My, it jumps like a wheelbarrow!") and watched a very good pro buy one (most of them look very similar, this one did not) at auction. Despite promising conformation, good production etc, it didn't end up jumping much better than any of the others!

All that said, though, I'd want to re-educate a horse like this before I pronounced on her ability or lack thereof. It is quite possible to - unintentionally, of course - train a horse to jump badly and it's certainly possible for one to get the wrong end of the stick. If you tried, preferably with the help of someone experienced in teaching young jumping horses, and she didn't improve, I'd suspect something physical but it doesn't sound like you're there yet.

The free jumping can be very useful but be careful because she's want to jump the way she's "learned" and if you just whack them up she might scare herself if she can't figure out how to get the job done well enough, fast enough. Build up gradually with your grids, experiment to see if poles help etc,

From the photos there doesn't seem to be a reason she can't jump adequately and she looks such a nice person, it's definitely worth a shot.
 
My sister's dear gelding never worked out the whole jumping thing. He was a lovely WB, but he was rather thick and never quite worked out HOW to jump! I had a go at teaching him (as a few people had tried and given up), and he'd contentedly trot/canter up to a fence, contemplate how to do it, then demolish it. His biggest jumping achievement was trotting around a 20cm course of crosspoles for a low-key interschool thing. I wish I had a video of that, as it was damned funny to watch!

I have ridden a few who were horrible jumpers, but Eikon has so far been the only one with no clue!
 
Lots of great sugestions - my thought would be to have her back checked out by a chiro - as you say she was turned out after an accident.

Reason for this - if the back, neck is out of alignment then folding the legs becomes a confused mess.

Does she trot over poles or get in a tangle and try to jump some of them - this often indicates that it is uncomfortable to pick up the hind legs to get them over the poles, could also be the reason why canter is difficult.

Jumping from trot is far better for a green horse than jumping from canter. Use trotting poles before jumps to help place her in the correct place to take off.

I have in the past used small cross country jumps to get a careless horse to pick up its legs.

And for those that wonder if it is possible to teach a horse to jumper in later years - IT IS! A new horse at the school was nicknamed 'Demolition Decoy' becasue he went through everything. Poles and grids and small solid fences and within a couple of months he was happily jumping 3' courses - at age 20
 
Evelyn said:
Lots of great sugestions - my thought would be to have her back checked out by a chiro - as you say she was turned out after an accident.

Reason for this - if the back, neck is out of alignment then folding the legs becomes a confused mess.

Does she trot over poles or get in a tangle and try to jump some of them - this often indicates that it is uncomfortable to pick up the hind legs to get them over the poles, could also be the reason why canter is difficult.

Jumping from trot is far better for a green horse than jumping from canter. Use trotting poles before jumps to help place her in the correct place to take off.

I have in the past used small cross country jumps to get a careless horse to pick up its legs.

And for those that wonder if it is possible to teach a horse to jumper in later years - IT IS! A new horse at the school was nicknamed 'Demolition Decoy' becasue he went through everything. Poles and grids and small solid fences and within a couple of months he was happily jumping 3' courses - at age 20
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Had the back checked when we first got her :)
She's generally good with trotting poles, never attempts to jump them but does occasionally hit them.
Have attempted this jumping from trot business as that is always what I was told but she just powers through them!
Also done xc- hitting them doesn't seem to affect her much.

I have a polework/gridwork lesson next week :D
 
Don't give up.

I bought my horse as a 6 year old, and started to teach her jumping. She used to stop at everything, or go through it, or try it without having a clue where to put her legs. She was also nervous about when she should take off if she actually attempted to jump.
I was told to give up and she was just not a jumper.
I kept everything simple for her for a year or so, we went cross country schooling with 3 other horses from our yard and put her at the back when we rode around. She jumped everything (small, simple things) due to her friends doing it before her, we didnt have very good technique at all.

I am not entirely sure when my horse decided she could jump but she overcame her problem. I started training her in Jan 09 and by Aug 2010 she was getting placed regularly in 2'3 courses.

She has little confidence still, I took her over a strided double, she messed the stride up and made a hash of it. After that, she wouldn't go over a pole on the floor as she was scared due to messing it up! She had 2 weeks off jumping and came back to normal again though.

I have taken things very slowly with her.

She is now jumping 2'9 courses and schooling at 3ft at home. She does still frighten herself at the height of things so I have to be careful not to overface her.
She has very good jumping technique now though and is complimented for it, she also takes you to the fence most of the time nowadays as opposed to before where she would not jump a thing unless you were willing her on and using a leg aid when you wanted her to take off otherwise she'd take off too late.

I did alot of loose schooling over jumps. I also used very small jumps to get confidence up. I entered 2ft and 2ft3 classes for a whole season which did her the world of good. Fillers etc were introduced slowly. I think something just 'clicked' with my horse and she began to enjoy the idea of pinging a course of fences (as fast as she can).

I found the fences she used to stop or mess up the most when training her was an upright especially if there was no true ground pole, she was terrified of them.
she still prefers to jump from trot,I think due to confidence of getting the stride. She managed a xc jump thats 1m wide and 2ft9 high in a slow trot.

Good luck!
 
Personally i wouldn't jump fences from a trot - you wouldn't if you were out doing a course. I actually went to a Tim Stockdale demo and he said he didn't teach his horses to jump from a trot as it is easier for them to jump from a canter, they should just be able to pop it into their stride naturally. Trotting can just result in them getting their legs in a mess. Is she hauling you in to the fences a bit, you said she 'powers through them)? If she's rushing then this won't help as she'll be flattening out and getting unbalanced. Also, rushing would suggest she's worried about it a bit and, if this is the case then you may need to take a step back and don't try jumping her too regularly as she may just be finding it all a bit too much.

If you think she's just keen though and gets a bit strong then maybe change the bit so you have more control. Sit up coming intog the fence and keep hold yet keep your legs on. Do not allow her to pull you and do not tip forwards and 'drop' her as you get to the fence. you keep hold, this will help her stay balanced and keep her hindlegs underneath her so she can use them properly.

Unless you are concerned about her striking in to herself then you could just remove the boots or use open-fronted tendon boots if you're not already. My horse doesn't actually seem to like jumping in boots (i do wear them for XC) so i just put overreach ones on him, he seems ot accept them but tendon boots for some reason i am convinced they p*ss him off when showjumping!! Lol
 
Thank you for all your helpful replies :)
I have a polework/gridwork session this week with a different instructor to her usual jumping one, she is my flatwork instrcutor but she's knowledgable and she does know the horse- fresh eyes and all that!
 
I rode a pony once who genuinely seemed pretty talentless at jumping. We tried free jumping, tried under saddle..solid fences, wider fences..didn't matter what it was, she'd make a vague attempt to lift her legs up but basically just crashed through everything. We gave up and stuck to dressage with her because she didn't seem to enjoy it that much either - certainly not enough to justify trying to get her to jump something with any type of form somewhat resembling stylish.

If your girl likes it - persevere :)
 
I would work on her canter a lot more. Get her really strong, lots of work in and out of the pace so you can push her canter on and bring her canter back and push it on again, get her real sharp off the leg and looking for what you are going to ask of her next. Then I'd work over poles, then small grids and see what happens, the first photo looks like she is almost climbing over which usually indicates they are not forwards enough.

The title did make me smile though because I had a Friesian, and Friesians are totally unable to jump (there are exceptions before someone says they have one that jumps) Not that i wanted him to jump, i didnt, i just thought it might be a little change for him once in a while but bless him, he was a cracker and was graded with premiums and everything, and his nature was the best I've ever seen, but teeny tiny jumps and he would smash straight through, made no attempt to jump then ever, but he LOVED it pmsl!!! He was just like a battering ram bless him, it's no wonder they took them into war.
 
Princecharming said:
I would work on her canter a lot more. Get her really strong, lots of work in and out of the pace so you can push her canter on and bring her canter back and push it on again, get her real sharp off the leg and looking for what you are going to ask of her next. Then I'd work over poles, then small grids and see what happens, the first photo looks like she is almost climbing over which usually indicates they are not forwards enough.

The title did make me smile though because I had a Friesian, and Friesians are totally unable to jump (there are exceptions before someone says they have one that jumps) Not that i wanted him to jump, i didnt, i just thought it might be a little change for him once in a while but bless him, he was a cracker and was graded with premiums and everything, and his nature was the best I've ever seen, but teeny tiny jumps and he would smash straight through, made no attempt to jump then ever, but he LOVED it pmsl!!! He was just like a battering ram bless him, it's no wonder they took them into war.
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I can assure you she was more than forward enough :D;) Your Friesian sounds just like Maisie!!!
 
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