Do some horses just never settle to clinics/group lessons?!

[iknowmyvalue]

After 18mo of persistence (ok, not as often as ideal but still fairly regular) Pepsi just cannot seem to cope with group sessions. I like them because you learn from watching others and also I can access high quality instructors that I wouldn’t normally afford. But he acts like a baby who has never been anywhere before rather than an 8yo with a fairly decent competition record!

Biggest issues are napping/lack of steering and general unruliness. He is never like this in any other situation. Just clinics and XC schooling with other horses. He used to have the odd nappy moment out competing but I don’t think he’s done that for a good 6mo now. He’s better in flatwork clinics than jumping, but I suppose those are far less exciting and less opportunities for unruly behaviour..

In an ideal world we’d do weekly/every other week clinics to get him used to it, but the timings of the RC clinics just don’t usually work with my work unfortunately. Do I just keep taking him and hope for the best?! I can keep trying to find ones I can make it to next year, and maybe see if any other places run them.

He’s improved so much in every other area, but this one we just don’t seem to be making any meaningful progress. Or maybe I’m just being impatient and I need to give it longer.

 

[DabDab]

Hmm, I've never known one need that much exposure to be alright, what's he like hacking with others?

I've taken mine to group clinics just to be passive horse stood in the middle before for a couple of people with very reactive horses, maybe you could find someone to do similar for Pepsi?

 

[iknowmyvalue]

Hmm, I've never known one need that much exposure to be alright, what's he like hacking with others?

I've taken mine to group clinics just to be passive horse stood in the middle before for a couple of people with very reactive horses, maybe you could find someone to do similar for Pepsi?

Neither, which is what is throwing me a bit! If he was consistently nappy it would make more sense but he isn’t.

He can be competing in a ring where the only separation from a busy warmup is some white rails and not pay a single jot of attention to the other horses. And he’s also fine being in a busy warmup with other horses everywhere

Absolutely perfect hacking with others, even doing beach rides/fun rides etc. Completely sensible even when friends horses aren’t.

He is a bit of a quirky boy, so maybe this is just one of his things. I thought maybe he finds it all a bit much, but I’d have thought competing would be similar. Horses love to challenge us though!

 

[Fools Motto]

Some horses hate the stopping/starting thing... I'm going to guess that it the trigger?
My only suggestion is that you keep him on the move, even when the instructor is talking to you.
I'm sure you are not alone! He sounds lovely.

 

[Roxylola]

I spent about a year not letting Charlie stop moving during clinics, and even when he was walking during down moments I kept him away from others. He wasn't consistent but he was a pain. It got much better eventually though

 

[Boulty]

My Welsh D could be like this... Once got galloped with over a ditch that we were supposed to be doing collected canter over because everyone else was now the other side of it, also used to bounce on the spot/ turn into a llama. He DID get wound up by busy warmups (if someone was bezzing around a jumping warmup at speed I usually had to remove him until they'd gone) & could also be a pratt if we met other horses out hacking as well. We just sorta accepted it as part of who he was & worked around him. Odd that yours is so specific about it though

 

[J&S]

I agree with fools motto and would think it is the stop/starting/waiting of clinics, especially XC that winds him up. when you compete with him there is continual focus, continual forward movement from the moment you start to warm up till the time you finish the course. This is what he is happy with, what he expects and considers his job. I would go for individual lessons/instruction, maybe more expense but more productive, where the situation is tailored toward you.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

My horse is sort of ok in clinics but he doesn't like the stop and start. He is an ex pointer and just likes to get on with the job. The one time I took him on a xc clinic he absolutely refused to face the group. He stood perfectly still facing away. Even when someone hit the deck over a jump behind him he never moved a muscle. I missed it as facing wrong way!! I just don't bother doing clinics now. I don't mind sharing with one other as we can keep going.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Firstly the thing that occurs to me is "pain". Perhaps the horse is in some sort of pain and/or discomfort somewhere which because of the more intense work in a "school" environment tends to evidence itself?? The horse would be then associating school work with being uncomfortable, or in pain. So I would be inclined to do all the usual checks: back/saddle/teeth (and it might be worth getting a bitting expert in too)/physio etc and see if this improves the situation.

Someone else has mentioned the "stop-start" thing and that is the second thing I would say; this is a common problem out hunting if there is a lot of hanging around and we've all seen horses out who just can't deal with the non-activity.

I took my pony (profile pic) to a TREC workshop a few years back when she was round-about 6yo if I recall? The whole thing was rather slow-moving and there just wasn't enough stimulus for her, and she became bored within 10 mins - and started evidencing it by misbehaving & napping. She was admittedly very green in a school environment as we'd concentrated more on getting her out and about hacking - but she's a very intelligent little mare and just wasn't able to deal with the repetitiveness of what she was being asked to do - she needed a lot more stimulus and interest.

Which leads on to my third point: perhaps try something different in the school? maybe the horse needs more stimulus? I'd be thinking of trying some groundwork and/or utilising some of the Horse Agility/TREC obstacles such as brightly coloured objects, flags, "canter corridors", etc. Perhaps this would help?? It feels like something radically needs to change, and this is just a suggestion...........

 

[iknowmyvalue]

Firstly the thing that occurs to me is "pain". Perhaps the horse is in some sort of pain and/or discomfort somewhere which because of the more intense work in a "school" environment tends to evidence itself?? The horse would be then associating school work with being uncomfortable, or in pain. So I would be inclined to do all the usual checks: back/saddle/teeth (and it might be worth getting a bitting expert in too)/physio etc and see if this improves the situation.

Someone else has mentioned the "stop-start" thing and that is the second thing I would say; this is a common problem out hunting if there is a lot of hanging around and we've all seen horses out who just can't deal with the non-activity.

I took my pony (profile pic) to a TREC workshop a few years back when she was round-about 6yo if I recall? The whole thing was rather slow-moving and there just wasn't enough stimulus for her, and she became bored within 10 mins - and started evidencing it by misbehaving & napping. She was admittedly very green in a school environment as we'd concentrated more on getting her out and about hacking - but she's a very intelligent little mare and just wasn't able to deal with the repetitiveness of what she was being asked to do - she needed a lot more stimulus and interest.

Which leads on to my third point: perhaps try something different in the school? maybe the horse needs more stimulus? I'd be thinking of trying some groundwork and/or utilising some of the Horse Agility/TREC obstacles such as brightly coloured objects, flags, "canter corridors", etc. Perhaps this would help?? It feels like something radically needs to change, and this is just a suggestion...........

No pain as far as we can find (and yes, have also looked at PSSM type pain) and everything including bit/bridle has been professionally fitted. Regular physio/dental checks, which confirm that everything is improving. No reactivity to being tacked up either. As I said, he’s always been quirky and we have made as thoroughly sure as we can that it is just that and not related to any pain etc.

And also it isn’t working in the school which is a problem, he does that regularly, including fairly intense lessons and he is absolutely fine and seems to enjoy the challenge of the work. He’s going the best he ever has, with no evidence of any of the behaviour quirks he had when I first bought him. This is both flatwork schooling and jump/gridwork schooling.

I think you and others are more on the money with the stop-start nature of things though. He is very intelligent with a naturally “busy” mindset and he does like to get on with the job at hand. Though he does now stand still and chill in the school, and will relax and stand in a group he didn’t used to. And maybe he finds it difficult to “switch” between the on and off modes so often.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

I agree with fools motto and would think it is the stop/starting/waiting of clinics, especially XC that winds him up. when you compete with him there is continual focus, continual forward movement from the moment you start to warm up till the time you finish the course. This is what he is happy with, what he expects and considers his job. I would go for individual lessons/instruction, maybe more expense but more productive, where the situation is tailored toward you.

Yes I think this is probably right. If this remains his only real issue then I can cope with that! He’s not dangerous or trying to deck me, he’s just not as polite as I’d normally expect from him!

We have weekly individual lessons with lovely instructors anyway, and we are all thrilled with how he’s going in those. And he feels like he’s really settling into his competing job.

 

[sportsmansB]

My 17yo event horse (evented to CIC***L) was such a hooligan in group lessons that we had to stop doing them
He was 110% in warm up arenas and absolutely knew the difference
He wasn't in pain, he just didn't like waiting for others to go and created his own fun
I leant him to someone to do their pony club B test and he kept a lid on it for about 10 minutes and then started acting out. They at least were all moving and the jockey was decent and he knew all the moves and did them when asked, just added in some extras for his own craic. Then when they had to swop horses and the poor child got on him, he reverted to donkey mode and would barely move.
There was nothing wrong with him bar a warped sense of humour... but I did try lots of things, as I enjoyed the group clinics. I brought him really tired, kept him moving, did very regular ones so it wasn't so exciting, etc- nothing made a button of difference

 

[oldie48]

I couldn't do cross country schooling with one of my horses, he was just one that needed to be kept moving. He could be very strong in show jumping clinics too but never in flat work ones. Absolutely not a pain issue, he just didn't like the stopping and starting.