Do some horses simply dislike dressage saddles?

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worMy

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www.katherinebegley.com
I have been playing around with George's tack the past few days and I am pretty much convinced that he schools better in his Jumping tack....

After a jumping session he always does much much better flatwork but I always figured that was entirely because he was more tired and more relaxed. But I did a little test and went on the same short hack and then did 20mins of flatwork one day in the dressage saddle and another day in the jump saddle and he was much more relaxed, especially in canter in the jumping tack.

Also thinking back to past events and our best test by far was in the OIU21 at Somerley in the Jump saddle (because we were in the process of changing his dressage saddle). We got 35.5...all our other marks (in the dressage saddle) have been low 40's.

Around that time I was based at Tor's and having lots of lessons and he was going the best had ever gone - but all of these lessons unlike any others were in the jump saddle!

Now it's not that the dressage saddle doesn't fit - because it does!....he is just seems more tense/fresh in it and flings his head about more in his typical George style!

So back to the title...do some horses simply dislike how dressage saddles sit & feel on them?

:)

P.S. On a different note I have created a KB Eventing page on Facebook because non-horsey folk were complaining that my frequent horse updates & photos were filling their news feed and annoying them! Opps. So if you would like to see more George & co. photos/updates feel free to 'Like' it. Cheers

http://www.facebook.com/KatherineBegleyEventing
 
yes, and i'd go with the jump saddle.
iirc Mark Todd did a test at 3 or 4* once in his jump saddle because the horse was going better in it.
it may just be that George doesn't relish that dressage saddle, and that he'd be much happier in a different one, or with a different padding arrangement etc, so i'd maintain an open mind about them. does your dressage saddle have a particularly deep seat, narrow panels, etc? what make is it?
i'm pretty sure some dressage saddles are now made on jump trees (i'm sure 1 of the saddle experts will add to that) so they're not as deep, banana shaped etc. perhaps it's worth trying one of those?
 
It's an albion K2 which I don't really like anyway as it's so chunky/heavy but it does technically fit him very well.

I sort of get the feeling that he feels less under pressure in the jumping tack if that makes sence?
 
worMy said:
It's an albion K2 which I don't really like anyway as it's so chunky/heavy but it does technically fit him very well.

I sort of get the feeling that he feels less under pressure in the jumping tack if that makes sence?
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Firstly - ewwwww.
Yes, that makes sense.
As TS says, it may well make you sit differently, use your seat & legs differently etc.
 
i know that i ride differently in my jump as opposed to my dressage...my horse is super spooky and i feel decidedly unsafe and so therefore more defensive in my dressage saddle...so much so i haven't used it for over 12 months- i do everything in my jumping saddle- i just alter my stirrups as much as i can :)
 
Your jump saddle is a close contact if I'm right? Very different feel to the flocked K2... my mare much much prefers latex panelled saddles to flocked saddles, so maybe that?
 
Yes, yes and yes! I have the same with my boy, he goes so much softer in a jump saddle, and more freer through his back and shoulders. Couldn't work out though if he just didn't like the dressage saddle, or if it was the position it put me in that he didn't like. So I have always ridden him in a jump saddle and muddled through.

But recently I have had some help from a friend of mine who works on a pro dressage yard, and she said that he's so big and strong that me trying to sit in a dressage saddle (as you have to at 1*/Int) and ride him effectively was always going to end up with him on my hand as I couldn't use my seat effectively enough to make him listen to it, he'd get strong and almost too free, and then I'd end up having to resort to using the hand. She recommended that I keep looking for a dressage saddle that he does like, rather than giving up on finding one.

I eventually found an old Albion Style, hardly any blocks and nothing fancy on it at all, simple but puts me in a lovely position as it doesn't get in the way. He seems to like it and now is happily being ridden in it.

So I'd say there is a dressage saddle out there for your boy, you just need to find it!
 
Saratoga said:
But recently I have had some help from a friend of mine who works on a pro dressage yard, and she said that he's so big and strong that me trying to sit in a dressage saddle (as you have to at 1*/Int)
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HAVE to..??

As I said I've done an Intermediate in a jump saddle and I know S_J did a 3* dressage in a jump saddle!

Anyway yes my jump saddle is verrrrry close contact due to being very old and the panels being very worn down!

Really interesting thoughts, thanks everyone!


ETA - ahh you mean have to do sitting trot at 1*/int rather than have to have a dressage saddle. My bad, read it wrong!
 
I was thinking the same for my lad then realised that every dressage saddle we tried was heavy unlike his jump which was nice and light weight.

We bought him a thorowgood saddle which is very light and he goes beautifully in it, so it could be a weight thing?
 
Yes sorry meant sitting trot lol! Like I said, I pretty much gave up trying to find a dressage saddle he liked, as they all technically fitted him, he just didn't go as well in them, so I just thought that was him. But I am glad now that I persevered in trying to find one he did like.

Just to say I tried him in a Wintec Isabelle, an Ideal Roella and a Albion Ultima, all of which he didn't like.
 
To me if a horse doesn't like a saddle it doesn't matter how close it is to a text book fit, I'll try another model or another fit for them. I don't think horses don't like a style of saddle (ie dressage saddle) BUT, dressage saddles can be deeper and if you're not a perfect rider I do believe that moving around in one can exert more force on the horse's back than if in a flatter seated saddle. However in this instance the K2 isn't massively deep, but it is deeper than many, and is fairly blocky. I've not come across a horse that has to have foam preferring it over flocking, but it may be possible.
 
Kokopelli said:
I was thinking the same for my lad then realised that every dressage saddle we tried was heavy unlike his jump which was nice and light weight.

We bought him a thorowgood saddle which is very light and he goes beautifully in it, so it could be a weight thing?
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Yeah I was thinking along these lines as well....I used to use a much lighter saddle on him but it was pinching his withers so ended up with this which is Belv's old saddle.
Might try borrowing someone elses...!!
 
I'm seldom persuaded by the weight arugument - we weight so much more than our saddles. If one saddle is 5lb heavier than another, well, we all know that most of us can put that much weight on, or lose it, quite easily. Endurance champions not only ride often in heavy saddles (flex panel saddles) but also have to carry weights, and their horses have to really move!
 
sbloom said:
. I've not come across a horse that has to have foam preferring it over flocking, but it may be possible.
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I have, sold the horse a while back. He was a real funny begger about saddles, hated the big panelled wool flocked saddles. Ended up with an old felt panel passier dressage and a foam pessoa, neither of which fitted him textbook but they were the ones he decided he liked!
 
My boy went so much better in his dressage saddle ( amerigo ) that I had to get him one of their jumping saddles ( rather expensive ) so no I do not agree horses prefer jumping saddles and think its more to do with the design and fit of the saddle be it jumping or dressage.
 
Really interesting thread!!! I have found the exact same thing with a mare I have. She goes amazingly for dressage in the Butet then dressage saddle goes on and she goes tight behind and not as nice. (they are both fitted for her!)

I came to the conclusion I will just dressage in my jump saddle but then it came to doing sitting trot.... not good at all in a xc saddle!!!

So dressage saddle it had to be.... off to the trainer who put her in an Albion Platinum and has made me ride her with a far stronger contact, seems to work. She seems to like my other horses posh Amerigo so I am having that fitted to her now....

Another note... my dressage trainer thought I was mad that she went better in the jump saddle and the only problem (was me!) is the fact as my position is different the contact I have is different.... this horse has contact issues and now they are just about sorted she seems to go well in dressage saddles..... so perhaps it was that all along...
 
lannerch said:
My boy went so much better in his dressage saddle ( amerigo ) that I had to get him one of their jumping saddles ( rather expensive ) so no I do not agree horses prefer jumping saddles and think its more to do with the design and fit of the saddle be it jumping or dressage.
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I didn't say all horses but do SOME prefer jumping saddles....! :P
 
ElleJS said:
Another note... my dressage trainer thought I was mad that she went better in the jump saddle and the only problem (was me!) is the fact as my position is different the contact I have is different.... this horse has contact issues and now they are just about sorted she seems to go well in dressage saddles..... so perhaps it was that all along...
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It could well be that as George does have contact issues and my position is obviously very different in a jump saddle.

But yes sitting trot in my super super flat no block jump saddle on a tense horse is very hard!!!
 
It can be a very specific individual thing. I ride a horse that goes better for me in his jump saddle than his dressage one but owner doesn't find a difference. She is smaller than me and the dressage saddle was chosen for her, whereas the jump saddle is a standard model used high end make, which the horse's previous trainer also used. So is the saddle? The rider? The horse?

I find the same with bits - riders have preferences, just like horses, and different riders can prefer different bits on the same horse.
 
I had a horse who was a showjumper in his early career before coming to me, so had always been ridden in a jump saddle. He was always a difficult, hot, sensitive horse in the dressage arena, but bang a jump saddle on and stand by the SJ arena and he would go to sleep! We hit a real 'wall' with the dressage one season, so at one event I popped the jump saddle on, warmed up over a few fences and went in and did my test :p at a CCI1* :eek: :o He pulled together one if the most relaxed tests he'd done for a long time!

Need to add, both saddles were regularly fitted, and the horse had had his back checked regularly. The fact that he would be so relaxed when jumping also indicated that there was no pain related issues. He was simply a bit simple when it came to dressage!
 
Another point - do you use the same girth? If so does it sit in the same place with both saddles? I've probably seen as many horses object to girths, especially short ones, as saddles!

I'm another one who thinks saddles only fit if the horse agrees. This seems to be becoming a minority view! The qualifier though is no good saddle is going to 'fit' a horse going badly. Not saying this is pertinent to the question at hand but the traditional view is the horse should be most comfortable when it is going correctly and saddles are a crude means of monitoring that. Same for riders - you can't ride well in something that holds you in the wrong place, however secure. This is part of the reason so many people who ride a lot of horses end up preferring such a narrow range of saddles that tend towards the neutral/low profile.
 
TarrSteps said:
Another point - do you use the same girth? If so does it sit in the same place with both saddles? I've probably seen as many horses object to girths, especially short ones, as saddles!
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Yes same girth - both saddles have long straps with short girths.

Really interesting points from everyone! Thanks for the input! :D
 
quickly- i detest albion dressage saddles, so flipping heavy and *solid*.............both CS and Fig really like the bates innova, as although we have had the cair gutted and wool flocked, it is soft and light feeling, not as clunky????if that makes sense.

that would be my reccomendation and they fit TB's well :)
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
quickly- i detest albion dressage saddles, so flipping heavy and *solid*.............both CS and Fig really like the bates innova, as although we have had the cair gutted and wool flocked, it is soft and light feeling, not as clunky????if that makes sense.

that would be my reccomendation and they fit TB's well :)
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Cheers, will see if anyone I know has one to try!
 
I have found my horse goes better in my close contact jump saddle- its certainly strange - she is cold backed and is always much tighter for longer to begin with in the dressage saddle (both fit etc) but wonder (my horse very sensitive about moving you legs, arms etc) that the longer saddle flaps are what she doesn't like? Just a suggestion?
 
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