Do we over handle our youngsters and are our expectations too low?

Doormouse

Doormouse

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Not a judgement as such simply a question I thought about today after my 2 year old had a trim and prompted by the thread about the youngster who messed about in the field after his bath.

My youngster (who is currently 2) was born in March and handled daily for the first few months of her life simply because the weather was too bad for them to live out straight away. She was travelled twice with her mother at 3 months and then 6 months old. She was weaned at 14 months through circumstance not choice (I would probably have weaned her earlier ideally) and lived out full time with her mother until then. From May last year she lived out until April this year, she was rugged during the winter and had this checked daily and was trimmed by the farrier every 6 weeks. She was loaded into a lorry this April and brought back to the yard where she came in during the day and was out at night for a month. She was lunged, long reined and sat on once in that month, she is now back out in the field where she will stay until next April. Today she and her 3 year o,d friend were taken out of their paddock leaving their other friend behind and had their feet trimmed in the next door field. She stood as good as gold throughout. I wouldn't have expected anything else from her.

Her 3 year old friend has been handled since birth, has been brought in daily from birth either at night or during the day according to season / weather. She was weaned at 6 months and then stood next to her mother when she was in. She has had her feet picked up every day, been brushed, bathed etc since birth. She weaves in her stable, panics when any other horse on the yard goes out, can be very unruly to handle and was rather tetchy about being trimmed today.

They are very different characters anyway so there is no knowing if she might have been any different if not handled much but..... Can youngsters be over handled, do they lose respect for us?
 
Yes, horses can be over handled, over babied and generally treated like little Lord/Lady Fauntleroy. Best left "to the wild" outside of basic handling/farrier/worming, etc. until needed as 3 year olds. Discuss......
 
Iv never trained a youngster or anything so I guess my opinion doesnt really mean a whole lot.
But in the future if the situation did arise, I feel handling a foal getting him used to people in the first few weeks is vital but once they are weaned I think horses should be thrown out into the field for three years and let to grow and learn to be horses.
They will be spending the rest of their lives having to do what they are told, being stuck in stables, being exercised when they arent in the mood etc
So I think the first few years they should just be themselves.

While I havent had to deal with horses from foals I have quite often come across horses that were wild for years and taken in for training and it of course takes longer to break them and get them used to being handled but at the end of the day it really doesnt take that much longer. Horses learn very quickly.

So yes I do think youngsters are over handled, let them be horses, they wont get much chance when they are older
 
I think a lot depends on personality and also on the person doing the handling. Mine had to come in from when he was a yearling to when I bought him at rising 3 as his breeder only had about 2 acres and 3 horses, he was the only one gelded so got picked on, so he came in and night and they went out, and then swapped during day. She did then turn them away in a friends paddocks for 4 months each summer.
However she was very matter of fact about handling, they were simply expected to behave themselves, and no extra fuss made because they were young, and consequently he is very relaxed being handled and also very independent of other horses
 
Yes I think they can be over handled but I also think that owners have a duty to make sure they can handle them for vets and farriers and be able to catch and lead as you may need to in an emergency.i personally wouldn't just abandon in a field for the first 3 years but then I have the time and my own land and stables to do bits and pieces as I please.
 
Dae's been handed since he was young (as soon as Dry Rot could get near him!)... He's 3 and a half now, has never been a bother to load / lead / rug (not that I rug him routinely) / load onto a flatbed trailer / stable / vet / throw things at / etc - you can literally do just about anything with him, and he was the easiest pony ever to back and ride away - I backed him in a gale by myself, rode him away without any back up etc... Alright he can be a bit of a twit to trim his hinds, but nothing overly dramatic.

I'm a big believer in "it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it!" :D
 
Mine spent his first winter in after being weaned at 6 months, he was groomed, feet picked and messed about with. He's lived out ever since, has had sessions in the arena as a yearling over tarpaulin, in and out of fillers, has been bitted and long reined as a two year old and regulary trimmed and wormed. During his first winter out I walked up to him in the field and put a rug on without having to put a head collar on and without him ever having a rug on before. He will stand patiently with his foot on the tripod whilst the farrier retrieves equipment and is generally un phased by most things including tractors and quads, and is well mannered. His field mate who was born a month later and has now also turned three, trusts me enough to do most things but hasnt had anywhere near the handling my lad has. As a result she is bolshy in the field, will quite often turn her bum on you, and has no concept of the word "over" when she steps on your foot whilst trying to shoulder you out of the way!
 
JFTD said:
Dae's been handed since he was young (as soon as Dry Rot could get near him!)... He's 3 and a half now, has never been a bother to load / lead / rug (not that I rug him routinely) / load onto a flatbed trailer / stable / vet / throw things at / etc - you can literally do just about anything with him, and he was the easiest pony ever to back and ride away - I backed him in a gale by myself, rode him away without any back up etc... Alright he can be a bit of a twit to trim his hinds, but nothing overly dramatic.

I'm a big believer in "it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it!" :D
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Yes I agree - it is not the fact that they are handled when they are young, it is how they are handled when they are young. I have met youngsters that are thug's to handle and youngster's that are a dream to handle on both ends of the spectrum (from wild to handled a lot). To a certain extent I think it depends on the interaction the youngsters have had with other horses as well.
 
Cortez said:
Yes, horses can be over handled, over babied and generally treated like little Lord/Lady Fauntleroy. Best left "to the wild" outside of basic handling/farrier/worming, etc. until needed as 3 year olds. Discuss......
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^^^^ this ^^^^ and preferably turned out with others of a similar age or a 'bossy but sensible' mare to learn the basics of herd life, which set good foundations for being brought into work as they will hopefully respect the alpha. Our 3YO is as above, they get feet trimmed every 6-8 weeks, rarely brushed, only rugged if appalling weather in the winter, admittedly he did live in this winter due to circumstance but since March he's not had a sausage done to him, hasn't seen a dandy brush since christmas and is one of the most obliging, patient animals I have come across.

The 2YO has done a bit more and has been to a party but he's a cocky little monster and needed to Learn a bit about life and come Down a peg or 2 before he became too big. After his little party he is now thrown out with 2 dominant mares - one being his mother and will continue to do so probably until one day we decide he needs a brush.

Really not a fan of all the 'lets take the yearling for a walk down the main road in a head collar/bridle' malarky or let's teach it to wear brushing boots and travel it up and down the country to shows, lets throw bags around its ears. Yes they need to learn these things eventually but let babies be babies and horses be horses, grow into themselves, become confident in their own time, make mistakes and learn from them, spook at stupid things in the field without a human petting them and telling them its not going to eat them.
 
My two year olds live out 24/7 including all last winter without rugs but did get a small feed each day and checked over, feet picked out, but apart from leading when required to/from field I leave them to play together, they do watch anything different that is happening.
They come when I call them, they always investigate anyone or thing that goes into their field.
They do stand well for blacksmith, but they will remain out without rugs till they are 3, and hopefully continue to grow and develop into good prospective all rounders.

I do feel they need time to mature mentally, strengthen their bones and just chill and enjoy being young.
 
Over fed, over coddled and over babied, it's always those ones that grow up to be vile. Especially if they are just turned out with mum and not part of a herd. Not that there's anything wrong with handling youngsters/foals, just don't treat them like cuddly toys.

On the other end of the spectrum is the ones that are left untouched in a field for four years....

I think the later have more chance of becoming useful animals though.
 
All my foals can lead, have farrier, vet etc. All love attention and cuddles and come for them when out in the field. I don't show any of my youngsters, it has never been of interest to me so all then just grow up in my small herd. They don't start any work until they're 3 and that is only groundwork, depending upon their growth and body strength. They are all well mannered and happy, despite not being handled a great deal.
 
Depends what you think should be expected of a horse at a given age? I think backing at 3 is OK but then they should be turned away or only lightly ridden occasionally to keep a hand in until the next year. I prefer that to backing at 4 and then expecting them to start 'proper' work straight away..

I feel it is better to spread out new things over months rather than 'right we're going to back you in a month, but first learn all of this!'. People talk about rushing them when they're young, but I think waiting and then doing it all at once is kind of worse.

I have a tiny 2yo welshie, I do take her for occasional walks in the village (like not even once a month) for a change of scene and to see cars etc, and I do a bit of general handling in the field quite simply because I am often there! Probably less than most youngsters who have a stable. We do walk, trot, backup etc. She wears rugs etc, and has been bitted, is still a bit nervous with the farrier but getting there.

Because she is quite flighty by nature (although relaxed and fine to handle generally) I can see how if she were a big horse, leaving her in a field til she was 4 would be pretty daunting for all concerned!

I have known a few youngsters (usually cobs) just take to everything straight away with minimal effort though, I guess it depends on the individual.
 
Mine was handled everyday took to see things and turned into a bombproof been there done that boy. No stress involved.
 
Not just over handling, that thread had a lot of over thinking of a fairly straight forward situation. Correct basic handling is not forgotten if you leave your babies to go native now and again.

I remember a few years ago when we had that whole swamp fever debacle. The ag department got around to testing us in November. I had 4 weanlings at the time living out and a couple yearlings living out. We just went out put on the headcollar for each and he could take blood in the field. Nobody had an issue. The guy commented on how good they were because on most places they couldn't catch them never mind them standing to have blood drawn. So I said what did you do then. Oh they just don't get tested. Well that's great. What is the point of all this testing in the first place? Why bother? That and a different herd lived on the same exact property and yet never tested. Just glad it wasn't a serious situation which needed contained to stop the spread.
 
DabDab said:
Yes I agree - it is not the fact that they are handled when they are young, it is how they are handled when they are young. I have met youngsters that are thug's to handle and youngster's that are a dream to handle on both ends of the spectrum (from wild to handled a lot). To a certain extent I think it depends on the interaction the youngsters have had with other horses as well.
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This.

We've been very lucky in that our youngsters have been able to grow up in a relatively stable herd of other youngsters with a very dominant 'uncle' or two. It has done them the world of good. Even at 4yo Wolf will back off from his 'uncle Ol' doing the 'I'm only a baby' mouthing face, and that's a good thing because I think he had he capacity to be a cocky little so and so otherwise. They've learnt all the subtleties of body language which has in turn made them more trainable.
 
They can be over handled , but the wrong handling is the worse thing , you need to be matter of fact with them so they learn that they accept what you what are not frightened by them or by them being scared .
I never play with my youngster this the biggest mistake I see with people who breed for fun a game that's amusing in a about to weaned foal is not much fun in a 16 h two yo.
They need to lead , tied up, let you groom them and stroke them all over , pick up there feet be easy about the headcollar and be easy to catch .
Once they get that as foals and weanlings you don't have to handle them much and they can get on with being horses and slowly growing.
I have to stable here at night in winter I don't like that for young ones it's one of the reasons I stopped with the mares.
I am always cautious of buying homebreds some of the worse nastiest brats I have encountered have been spoilt indulged homebreds and yes one of them was mine you do with horses learn by your mistakes.
 
Don't think it's has to be all-or-nothing as some suggest. You can still turf them out the vast majority of the time but handle/check feet etc. say, once a week or whatever - how long does it take? An hour? Or for example, leading to and from stable 10 mins a day so 70mins a week.

So they will still be getting to know how to interact with a herd, but also with people. And no harm in that IMO. It will obviously vary animal-to-animal, and some would take the transition from 'wild' to broken well, others would perhaps have responded to a slower build up, difficult to tell when the decision's made though!
 
Some of the nicest youngsters I have handled were handled as foals and then chucked out in the meadows on the hillside. We we go and worm them in the fields with a head collar... no bother ... change their fields by walking 3 miles alone a road also no problem. Some I have met, however, that are handled everyday are stressy and rude. I don't think horses forget or should be treated like they will forget at any moment they start to learn bad habits and push boundaries.
 
My horse was virtually untouched until he was 3. I was shocked when I got him off the lorry & he didn't even know how to lead(long story,bought from field & only bought him as it was getting late & I couldn't stop the guy who was selling him from talking!). He was my first youngster & I was worried that I'd have a lot of work to do however he was so chilled out about everything I did with him & the only tantrum I remember was a teeny one over having his mane washed(had lice) & he stamped his foot a bit & just ignored him & he gave in! He does have a very accepting nature even now so I wonder if it was part his upbringing & part just how he is? We got further delayed by foot & mouth & then sarcoid problems so he didn't really do much until he was 6-7yrs old.
 
I bought my mare (now 7) as a four year old who had been totally unhandled. She was literally left on a hillside for the first 4 years of her life. She has taken everything I have asked her in her stride, from having her feet trimmed, to the first time she had a set of shoes put on. She works well in the school and hacks out alone and in company.

I think this is because she was given the chance (not a conscious decision by old owner who was overstocked and just left her to waste) to mature and relax into the stresses of being alive :)

I have to say that I think lunging a two yr old is way too young, but that's just my opinion.
 
Tally-lah said:
I have to say that I think lunging a two yr old is way too young, but that's just my opinion.
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Wouldn't argue with you on that, I think every horse is different, some need it, some are ready and others are way too weak. I do think, as is apparent from most of the replies on this thread, it depends who is doing it and the way it is done.
 
I've had my girl since 10 months old and have learnt so much over a year later, more than I have in the past 30 years of being around horses! I've also learnt that mental maturity and the horses personality depends on how much or how little is beneficial to them. I handle my filly daily inc picking her feet up every day, I do notice if I don't even for one day it's that little bit off, so daily handling it is, it works for us and the odd walk around the farm tracks for fun, I can tell she enjoys it and its good she will just stop and look at anything spooky rather than thinking flee! She's a sensitive, high energy girl and I'm really pleased with what a sensible horse she's growing into. I'm letting her dictate the pace so no time limits. I'm still learning but this seems to work for us.

I think you can expose them to too much too young and actually end up sensitising them which sets up later issues. Again, depends on the youngster. I certainly wouldn't take my 2 yr old to a show any time soon, then again a lot of youngsters are and are not phased, or they have a bad experience.
 
possibly. my two year old was part of a herd when we got him and had had a halter on, basic checks, and that was that. he has been lovely to do and i belive its becuase of how he was between foal and two. we herded him into the horse trailer when we picked him up off the moor and he was turned out with our three others. i do have to handle him every day but only because he is prone to sweetitch after coming off a midgy moor so i do need to assess him. he leads, and has been to three shows. when it came to loading etc, i just loaded him, then just took him to a show. no nonsense or fuss and he being a blank canvas just said, oh, all right then. hes very cocky in the field but has been put in his place by my older gelding (also exmoor) and my husbands horse. i think he will be a good pony, i wont start doing much til hes 4. i think he has just the right level of being a baby but also a bit of handling.
 
I have two 3yr olds

1st one I brought as 1yr old wild, unhandled tb, had reverse trailer into feild to get her out. took about 6 months to get her trust shes been out 24/7 no rugs etc just done the basics with her leading up feet etc now as a 3 yr old she is a very relaxed horse to do things with, Ive just left her "wild"so to speak.

2nd 3 yr old highland I brought in march. He was rejected by his mother and was hand reared. He can be a right c***y sod. Nothing phases him, bothers or scares him. He getting there aboutpersonal space :D . I find hes to confide

Both are lovely character s in their own ways

Out of the two the tb is easier to handle

I just think it all depends on the horse, circumstances etc, whos doing it and the way its fobe
 
That was supposed to say I find hes too confident for his good sometimes! And fobe is meant to be done, not sure ehat happened there sorry!
 
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