Do you assume 1 year per level?

sychnant

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Having done 2 tests for fun last year, and started taking things a bit more seriously this year, we are going out at BD Intro next year and will also be doing some Unaffiliated Prelim to prepare for BD Prelim in 2018.

Does this sound a sensible timescale, assuming training progresses as you want it to?

How many tests would you ride per year, as part of your training plan?

I know this all depends very much on the horse and how things pan out, but I want to have an idea in my head of where I want us to be after a certain time.
 

milliepops

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Depends on horse and rider IMO, as well as what you want to get out of it.

With my sec D, we started at BD prelim as her first show last July, she did her first Novice about a month later as we had lengthened strides installed at home and I wanted to qualify her for Area Festivals in the Autumn (I can't ride in Prelim AFs because of my rider group.)

She did Winter and Summer regionals at Novice and then started Elementary in time for AFs this time round.
I'm planning the same for next year - Regionals at Elementary and AFs at Medium... then we will see! :lol:

I didn't hang about at Prelim because I have experience at higher levels and get more pleasure out of the harder classes, but that's a personal thing.

In terms of frequency of competing - with Millie we just did enough to qualify, and spent time & money on training rather than doing more shows than necessary.
With Kira, her brain needs more regular outings to overcome her demons. I'm finding that going out fortnightly is about right - might pop an arena hire in between, and we have a lesson every 2 or 3 weeks. I try not to take her out in the lorry more than once a week as she gets a bit sour about loading.
 

Cortez

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Before competing, I would want the horse to be training - well - at the next level up at home. So if competing at Prelim, I'd want the horse to be doing Novice at home; if competing Novice, then training at Elementary, and so on. I also don't see the point of hanging around in the lower levels, but I do appreciate that many people are perfectly happy at Prelim and Novice as a goal. I'm afraid I don't see the point of Intro at all: if you can't canter you have no business "competing", you should be taking lessons.
 

sychnant

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millie, you make some good points!

Really, I would like to qualify for the Gypsy Cob Championships. I've never really done dressage before, and definitely didn't buy Casp with dressage in mind - we spent 3 years hacking and getting my severely lost confidence back before we entered an Intro for a bit of fun, and to see how he was in a competition atmosphere. I would love to qualify for other things too but don't want to over complicate things my first year Affiliated! I'm confused enough as it is!! Maybe once we are doing well at Prelim I will look into those :)

Cortez, I appreciate what you are saying. I didn't set out with any ambitions other than to have a bit of fun, but Casp is getting good marks so far so I have decided to make dressage our primary aim. It's a bit harder when you don't have anywhere at home to school, we are doing well in walk and trot using the 15m round pen, and have started a bit of leg yield out hacking, but unfortunately we don't have anywhere to canter apart from the RP, and 15m circles are a bit much at the moment. As Casp is a cob type who was originally broken to drive, and I only really started schooling him at the beginning of the year, our canter is not yet great.

I can appreciate why you don't see the point of Intro, as I think you have done an awful lot of things that I would consider to be beyond me! I am just happy that my little lad, who would look completely unsuitable for dressage to many, is so willing to try for me and do his best for me. Especially as this time 4 years ago, I really wasn't sure I would ever ride again. I'm so proud of both of us that we are regularly scoring 70% plus, and am making sure I enjoy it while I can as to be honest, I think Novice will be our limit :)
 

milliepops

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Before competing, I would want the horse to be training - well - at the next level up at home. So if competing at Prelim, I'd want the horse to be doing Novice at home; if competing Novice, then training at Elementary, and so on. I also don't see the point of hanging around in the lower levels, but I do appreciate that many people are perfectly happy at Prelim and Novice as a goal. I'm afraid I don't see the point of Intro at all: if you can't canter you have no business "competing", you should be taking lessons.

yup, def helps to be training the next level up even just a bit, especially if your horse is one of those that goes a bit green when away from home. Mine is schooling all the medium work even though I'm not planning to do any BD mediums until next summer. It's not good enough for a show yet but it makes the Elem tests easier when we are out. She'll start her changes over the winter so we have plenty of time go get them right for AM ( Millie was a slow learner so I've been burnt once before on this topic!)

I've found that my aims for moving up are shaped by the timings of the championship qualifiers so OP if you have different goals in mind (Quest etc) then you might have different timescales :)

Though the intro thing... they *are* very popular! Let's not start another mega thread about them!
 

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With lola, I did about 3 intro tests, then skipped to novice, she was one of those ponies who needed stuff to happen quickly to keep her thinking and therefore not bog off with me, the prelims are a little too round the outside. The novices make me ride more. We didn't get great scores but good enough considering! we did mostly team quest, but when we made our proper bd debut we did a couple of prelims. (last year)
This year, we went straight out at novice bd, qualified for our area festivals and native champs the first 3 tests we did, and we have done a riding club dtm qualifier (which we have qualified for) and made her elementary debut unaff.
After I have our championships out of the way I plan to do a few bd ele and see how we go, maybe doing area festivals next year at ele if we are good enough! Don't think we will ever be a regionals partnership though :)
I'd love to be able to have a crack at medium next year but not sure if we will make it but we will try!! :) but I too wouldn't mess around too long at the lower levels, it's too easy to be scared of moving up as it's a big jump, and it becomes a bigger hurdle than it needs to be! :)
 

milliepops

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it's too easy to be scared of moving up as it's a big jump, and it becomes a bigger hurdle than it needs to be! :)

^ have to agree, without wishing to go over old ground, with Millie I used to dare myself to have a go at something ;) can't really do that with BE as you might come a cropper, but the worst that can happen with BD is a poop score :)

OP, Gypsy Cob champs are at the end of Oct I think. Most of the associated champs have a qualifying period starting on 1st Jan for the champs in that calendar year. You can do more than one level, so if you get some good results early on and fancy having a go at prelim as well as intro then you could try and qualify for both... ;) Don't feel like you have to wait for a set time if you are ready to move on up.
 

sychnant

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I'm looking forward to moving up, honest! I just don't want to rush through it, max out at Novice, and have nowhere else to go :D

That's a good point about the 2 levels, hadn't realised you could do 2 :)

We did try one Prelim a month or so ago - he tried really hard but we didn't manage to get right canter. I'd really like to sort that out before we go out seriously at Prelim. He is spot on when lunging, but not so good with me on!
 

rachk89

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To be honest next year I ain't even gonna start at prelim we are just gonna go straight into novice. He is capable of it and after a whole winter of schooling I expect him to be doing well. So not gonna waste time at a level he can do. As for moving up just move up when ready. If that takes a year or a month it doesn't matter. If i feel he is ready for elementary after a few competitions we will give it a go. Might as well got nothing to lose.
 

nikkimariet

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I'm always training higher than I'm competing.

When Fig was out at Prelim he was starting baby HP at home and playing with the changes.

We did Prelim to Ele in 6 months of competing. Did a medium by the end of the next year. And AM the next summer.

Originally, I had intended to do Adv and get my Group 3 for PSG last year. But he wasn't ready, and neither was I. Not helped by a massive ulcer out break again.

It did us good to wait and get our confidence up.

He has smashed the PSG stuff this year. I'm aiming for I1 next year.
 

{97702}

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I'm always amused at people who state they don't see the point of lower levels :) The reason I did Intro (or Walk and Trot tests as I personally call them) was to get my extremely baby inexperienced 6 YO out and about at competition venues whilst we were establishing his canter - he couldn't canter at all when I got him, as his owner had brought him on very slowly. Not rocket science that I want to get him used to competing without wasting Prelim (or higher) chances :)
 

sychnant

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Wow NM, gosh I wish we could be that fab!! I appreciate Fig isn't the first type you might think of for dressage either! But you are so far above my level that I can't imagine being able to do all that in just a few years!

Like I say, training is difficult. I think we will probably max out at Novice - Casp is unlikely to find extension easy, and although we can leg yield in walk it's hard to teach it in trot on our narrow hills!

I don't want to rush through too quickly and end up with nowhere else to go, but I'm also conscious of not wanting people to think that I have been at a level too long and am pothunting :p We have done 15 Intro's now, 2 at the end of last year and 13 in the last 3 months. I don't think that's a lot for the first year of competition, when we only started ANY type of schooling at the beginning of the year (and I mean he had no idea about anything other than hacking with a light contact!) but we get good scores and I don't want to be THAT person.

Like I say, we also did one Prelim to see how canter would go, and couldn't find right lead (3 and 4 for those movements!) My fault not his as he gets it on the lunge, just needs more practise when carting me along too :D Think I will just have to go for it in the round pen.

NM, I love reading your reports and am in absolute awe of Fig! I appreciate you have an amazing horse, who even if not bred for it tries his hardest for you - but your riding plays a huge part too. I'd love to see how my Gypsy Cob could go with you on him!!! If you're ever over Powys/Shropshire way... :)
 

sychnant

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Lévrier;13358289 said:
I'm always amused at people who state they don't see the point of lower levels :) The reason I did Intro (or Walk and Trot tests as I personally call them) was to get my extremely baby inexperienced 6 YO out and about at competition venues whilst we were establishing his canter - he couldn't canter at all when I got him, as his owner had brought him on very slowly. Not rocket science that I want to get him used to competing without wasting Prelim (or higher) chances :)

Oh thank goodness I'm not the only one!!! I agree completely. Mine was broken to harness first as he was intended to be used for Driving for the Disabled until he grew too big, so really had no idea how to work. He's also a worrier, so first time in an indoor with mirrors and dressage boards, it was great to only have to worry about walk and trot!
 

{97702}

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Oh thank goodness I'm not the only one!!! I agree completely. Mine was broken to harness first as he was intended to be used for Driving for the Disabled until he grew too big, so really had no idea how to work. He's also a worrier, so first time in an indoor with mirrors and dressage boards, it was great to only have to worry about walk and trot!

LOL just think, they wouldn't be so popular if you were the only one :) :) :) I know my 6YO could and should be doing a lot more by now but I've only had him since the end of May and he has come along stupendously since then bearing in mind he had done next to nothing before that - so W&T is fine for me as a start :)
 

sychnant

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Very true!

Mine's 9, and I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me would have him doing far more by now - but the first 3 years I had him were spent just hacking about to get my confidence back, (which he couldn't have done a better job at!)

I would never have bought him if I'd been looking for a dressage horse, but he's just amazing - like I said, he's only been schooled since the start of this year, and only by a very rusty me, so I couldn't be more proud of him! I just want to enjoy going as far through the levels as we can without rushing him, preferably also without people thinking that I'm sticking at a level longer than I should :)
 

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Mine won the Prelim Winter Regionals in Feb 2014 (admittedly he was regularly competing Novice at this point) but did his first Advanced Medium August 2015, did his first Advanced in May this year and has qualified for PSG, just need to pluck up the courage to get out and do one. I don't stick to a set time scale. Just whatever feels right. Mine is no dressage horse, he just tries very hard.
 

nikkimariet

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Wow NM, gosh I wish we could be that fab!! I appreciate Fig isn't the first type you might think of for dressage either! But you are so far above my level that I can't imagine being able to do all that in just a few years!

Like I say, training is difficult. I think we will probably max out at Novice - Casp is unlikely to find extension easy, and although we can leg yield in walk it's hard to teach it in trot on our narrow hills!

I don't want to rush through too quickly and end up with nowhere else to go, but I'm also conscious of not wanting people to think that I have been at a level too long and am pothunting :p We have done 15 Intro's now, 2 at the end of last year and 13 in the last 3 months. I don't think that's a lot for the first year of competition, when we only started ANY type of schooling at the beginning of the year (and I mean he had no idea about anything other than hacking with a light contact!) but we get good scores and I don't want to be THAT person.

Like I say, we also did one Prelim to see how canter would go, and couldn't find right lead (3 and 4 for those movements!) My fault not his as he gets it on the lunge, just needs more practise when carting me along too :D Think I will just have to go for it in the round pen.

NM, I love reading your reports and am in absolute awe of Fig! I appreciate you have an amazing horse, who even if not bred for it tries his hardest for you - but your riding plays a huge part too. I'd love to see how my Gypsy Cob could go with you on him!!! If you're ever over Powys/Shropshire way... :)

Always game for a pony play!!!

Fig is my absolute world. Doesn't always go to plan and we sometimes get it wrong but he's really a very fun little chap!
 

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OP, if you are stuck for an arena to practise your canter in (and leg yield or anything else) if you have done 13 tests in three months you are getting in to an arena quite a lot. Get practising in the warm up! ;)
 

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Before competing, I would want the horse to be training - well - at the next level up at home. So if competing at Prelim, I'd want the horse to be doing Novice at home; if competing Novice, then training at Elementary, and so on. I also don't see the point of hanging around in the lower levels, but I do appreciate that many people are perfectly happy at Prelim and Novice as a goal. I'm afraid I don't see the point of Intro at all: if you can't canter you have no business "competing", you should be taking lessons.

I think intro is a fantastic way to teach a 'green' horse that all the new stuff they see at a show is OK and remain in control. Once that is done up the scales you go
 

sychnant

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Mine won the Prelim Winter Regionals in Feb 2014 (admittedly he was regularly competing Novice at this point) but did his first Advanced Medium August 2015, did his first Advanced in May this year and has qualified for PSG, just need to pluck up the courage to get out and do one. I don't stick to a set time scale. Just whatever feels right. Mine is no dressage horse, he just tries very hard.

Wow, well done! I think I need to get my butt in gear...

Always game for a pony play!!!

Fig is my absolute world. Doesn't always go to plan and we sometimes get it wrong but he's really a very fun little chap!

When are you coming over??? :D Yep, we get it wrong quite often but he couldn't be a nicer pony so I don't really care, just love our partnership :)

OP, if you are stuck for an arena to practise your canter in (and leg yield or anything else) if you have done 13 tests in three months you are getting in to an arena quite a lot. Get practising in the warm up! ;)

Yes, this is true! We have also won an hour's arena hire by being first in a class - problem is I don't like to travel alone, I only have help at the weekends, and the arenas are usually being used for competitions then... Warm up is interesting as he's still quite distracted by other horses, jump stands and poles, etc... he's actually quite sensitive and spooky for a cob!

I think intro is a fantastic way to teach a 'green' horse that all the new stuff they see at a show is OK and remain in control. Once that is done up the scales you go

Thought that was done. He's definitely getting better... although a few weeks ago he was so hyped by a horse in the warmup he just couldn't relax (it wasn't even doing a lot!) and a couple of weeks ago we had a HUGE spook at K as there was a ray of sunlight across the sand :D 4 more tests booked for this month, then we may do some Prelim in October :)
 

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I also like to being training at a level above at home, in comparison to the level I'm competing at a competition and that's as a minimum. We were competing at Medium BD but training at Advanced so everything in the arena was comfortable and familiar. I went from Prelim to Elementary in the same year without a problem and then progress obviously slowed as we moved up the levels. As another poster said, championships will often dictate to you to a certain extent. I wouldn't necessarily put a timescale on it, just see how you both feel and you'll know when you're ready, as you won't find it a challenge/interesting any more. You'll do little harm moving up in dressage, unlike other disciplines... you'll just get a bad score. Best of luck!


Before competing, I would want the horse to be training - well - at the next level up at home. So if competing at Prelim, I'd want the horse to be doing Novice at home; if competing Novice, then training at Elementary, and so on. I also don't see the point of hanging around in the lower levels, but I do appreciate that many people are perfectly happy at Prelim and Novice as a goal. I'm afraid I don't see the point of Intro at all: if you can't canter you have no business "competing", you should be taking lessons.

I think it is unfair to suggest that those competing in an Intro have no business "competing". A lot of people at this level can canter, but they are on baby horses, who are inexperienced. An inexperienced horse I ride went out to do one last week and it was perfect for her. She's only ever been heavily hunted in Ireland and she sees every trip out in the lorry as a very exciting prospect. It did her the world of good to go out and just do a walk and trot. She could absorb the surroundings and she learnt a lot from it.
 

sychnant

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Great advice Eventer, thankyou :) We'll see how we do at BD Intro and take it from there.

By the way, we can canter - but I owned him for 2 years before I tried it! I know this makes me sound pathetic, but prior to buying him I really wasn't sure I would ever ride again. Then I fell in love with a "sale" photo on FB... If I hadn't started with an Intro class I wouldn't have tried dressage at all, so I'm very glad they exist, as so far he's doing amazingly. He's scored over 70% in 6 Intros so far, and high 60% for most of the others. I know it doesn't sound a lot to those who compete at levels I can only dream of, but I've done all his schooling myself in the last year with minimal resources, and I couldn't be more proud of him :)
 

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Please correct me if I'm wrong but surely moving up the levels isn't just about doing the movements? Most horses will do the lateral work fairly easily and the medium work too to some extent but it's the quality that matters. I work with someone who likes to ensure the basics are firmly in place and that's made me re-think things a bit. At elementary for eg a BD judge will be looking for a bit more collection, that the horse is more up in the shoulder and showing a rounder outline, that the horse is supple on both reins but at prelim as long as the horse is relaxed, has a good consistent rhythm and is taking the bit forward in a nice shape and the rider performs all the movements accurately, then they will do quite well. So for me, it's less about the actual movements but more about the "way of going" which depends on the development of the correct muscles which depends on correct training and takes time. So for me every horse and rider combination will progress at a different rate.
 

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OP what you are doing is great for you. It's easy to be swayed by others moving up levels at a phenomenal rate and thinking 'gosh I'm not doing well, I need to do more, push myself, push my horse. I should be ..... (insert whatever)'

Just do what you and your horse are comfortable with and can achieve without getting stressed and keeping it fun for both of you. Your timescale of 2018 BD prelim is fine as that's what suits you and your horse. Just keep on getting out there and building confidence. The TGCA champs are a great aim.

Nothing wrong with staying at Intro or even prelim forever if that's what you want to do.
 

smja

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Just do what you and your horse are comfortable with and can achieve without getting stressed and keeping it fun for both of you.

Well said.

FWIW, I started at intro. Horse did the entire test in canter, thankfully the judge saw the funny side :D
 

sychnant

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Please correct me if I'm wrong but surely moving up the levels isn't just about doing the movements? Most horses will do the lateral work fairly easily and the medium work too to some extent but it's the quality that matters. I work with someone who likes to ensure the basics are firmly in place and that's made me re-think things a bit. At elementary for eg a BD judge will be looking for a bit more collection, that the horse is more up in the shoulder and showing a rounder outline, that the horse is supple on both reins but at prelim as long as the horse is relaxed, has a good consistent rhythm and is taking the bit forward in a nice shape and the rider performs all the movements accurately, then they will do quite well. So for me, it's less about the actual movements but more about the "way of going" which depends on the development of the correct muscles which depends on correct training and takes time. So for me every horse and rider combination will progress at a different rate.

This is a good point. He is still working quite low at the moment, which obviously will change as he develops the right muscles. He also can't yet stay in as good a shape in canter as he can in trot and walk.

The movements themselves may well be what limits us though, as I'm not sure he will find lengthening his stride very easy :)

OP what you are doing is great for you. It's easy to be swayed by others moving up levels at a phenomenal rate and thinking 'gosh I'm not doing well, I need to do more, push myself, push my horse. I should be ..... (insert whatever)'

Just do what you and your horse are comfortable with and can achieve without getting stressed and keeping it fun for both of you. Your timescale of 2018 BD prelim is fine as that's what suits you and your horse. Just keep on getting out there and building confidence. The TGCA champs are a great aim.

Nothing wrong with staying at Intro or even prelim forever if that's what you want to do.

I think you're right and I'm being swayed by what others do, and what I think they might be thinking! Definitely has to stay fun! My aim is to qualify for the BD/TGCA champs at whatever level we're at - and to enjoy doing it.

My post mainly came about as I am worried that he is doing really well at Intro, and I don't want people to think I'm pothunting, as we really haven't done much yet and our canter needs so much work before we go to Prelim. I definitely want to go as high through the levels as we can, but I'm inclined not to rush as when we get as high as we can, what do we do then? :D
 
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