do you need money to compete at the top?

diggerbez

diggerbez

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just been reading the article about Emily Llewellyn in the H&H.firstly would just like to say that this post isn't a swipe at her - i think she is a fantastic rider, clearly extremely hardworking and dedicated and has been rewarded with some excellent results...long may they continue... but what is quite clear from the interview is that her family have had to pay a lot of money to buy horses to kick start her career and to put her in the position of having a strong team of top horses... so what i'm wondering is- is it possible to succeed at the top of equestrian sport through pure talent...or do you also have to have money as well to be able to use this talent? discuss....
 
I would answer "yes" but that's not much of a debate. Without money you can't run a large lorry, pay considerable sums in entries over the year, feed and keep bills etc etc let alone buy expensive horses. Talent is also crucial but money allows the talent to be visible.
 
They always say you need three of four things with horses:

Luck, determination, money and talent.
 
Ahh this is something iv ponderd to, we all love to hear of people that have "made it " but I wonder how possible this is in the horse world, I suppose when it comes down to it in any equestrian sport no matter how talented the rider is the horse has to match in ability and such beasts usually come with a hefty price tag :o and none of the pros have just one awsome horse. unfortunately not many people have the ability to fund this or the time, it doesn't seem to stop allot of ordinary people who work ordinary jobs to give it there best shot tho and seeing how far you can go :) I admire everyone who gives it there best shot, and there must be some people like us ordinary folk who really give it 100 percent who have made it xx
 
yes, you need money. To compete is expensive, to take days off work to compete is expensive. Yes you can reach the top with one horse, BUT you need to be able to afford to enter the events and take the days off work to get there. You cannot get sponsorship or owners without that one special horse, but you need to lay down your own money to get there.
 
Unfortunatley yes imo... but there are means and ways that mean money doesnt have to come from your background, it can come from support you've earnt through talent, determination etc... from sponsors, owners, very hard work, a logical brain, someone whos v good with money, and ofc lots of luck etc!

But yes, ofc you need money to compete at even a reasonable level! entries, travel, registration, vets, shoes, livery etc costs all add up, and become even higher when you reach top level :)
 
Actually I know a pretty successful dressage rider (who teaches me), who is not at all wealthy. I also know some very non-wealthy, but very, very successful showing people. It's definitely possible to get to the top on a shoestring, but it would be a lifestyle choice, and very, very hard work. I don't think I would be able to forfeit my life and comforts just to try to compete at this level.
 
Yes, you do. I haven't read the article but I cannot imagine Emily's story be much different from, say, Laura B's, Matthias Rath's and so forth (in fact, I assume she is rather less fortunate ;) )

There are exceptions in all disciplines, a lot of the 'gods' (people like Hubertus Schmidt, Isabell Werth), did not necessarily come from extremely wealthy backgrounds (Hubertus, who is probably the very best rider who ever graced the dressage arenas, comes from a farming background!). It might be a coincidence but these are also the people who seem to produce GP horses on a scaringly consistent basis :)
 
Running costs aside - perhaps it is slightly easier (or at least more exceptions to the rule) in dressage and eventing - SJ absolutely requires a lot of money and there isn't really any way you can have just one horse.

Some people may be able to work their way up to top level - business sense, producing horses and hard slog as well as talent (Guy Williams springs to mind) but as a general rule, top level show jumpers either have family money or very good backers. And even the ones that start out with no money need to build up a considerable amount to be able to buy the right horses and afford to run them.

(Dressage and eventing may have a bit more of the "lucky homebred" factor someone was mentioning in another thread, but this isn't really that common in show jumping - its such a huge industry and so reliant on breeding whereas in dressage and eventing there may be the odd "freak of nature" (Mr President, Opposition Buzz perhaps a bit too) who get to the top by sheer determination and talent, but you need a well-bred, finely tuned athlete to make those poles stay up at top level SJ - this is no coincidence or stroke of luck, but carefully honed and planned and costs money.)

A lot of show jumpers do well already at ponies - which is essentially impossible without rich parents as you only have a few years of it and need bl00dy good ponies straight away.
 
someone has to put the money in to have a horse competing at top level - either rider, owner or sponsor(s) have to pay for the running costs, which run to thousands a year just to compete at say a medium-ish level.
a good friend of mine has a few nice Novicey horses. she's worked out that to campaign two of them this year at BE will cost her around £5k, factoring in everything. that's quite frightening.
quite apart from buying lovely horses, there are other things that money does which facilitate staying at the top too, imho - better facilities (e.g. 'horse spas' with icy seawater in to tighten the legs, lovely gallops, great surfaces, great jump schooling facilities), being able to pay for unlimited veterinary attention (a top vet i knew used to spend the whole day, every Monday, at a former International rider's yard). for e.g. if money was no object i would have ultrasonic tendon scans, blood tests, etc done regularly.
i think that those of us who have spent a long time in the horse world may have forgotten just how much money there is in it, kind of become oblivious.. I took a non-wealthy friend along to a BE event a few years ago and he was shocked to the core just by the lorry park. Literally hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of horseboxes alone...
i know there are those who start with very little and get there through pure graft, but they are few and far between, and they've also had some lucky breaks (which i'm sure they totally deserved/earned, don't get me wrong!) along the way...
 
I think so to an extent. You need to be able to have the time to produce that one horse, even if you get "a lucky homebred" even to do a full seasons competing at affiliated level eventing, and its probably the same for sj and dressage (if not more because that's all year round!) you're looking at around £1000 for one horse just in entry fees. Then you've got the running costs of the horse, transport, training etc. You've then got to live yourself!

I think by the time you've got yourself "known" things get alot easier financially if you can get some good owners/sponsors etc.

But, I think if you are completely dedicated, and prepared to take a huge gamble with a few years of your life, it is possible to "make it" with very little financial help. So long as you are prepared to work extremely hard and have alot of luck!!

Of course even if you have no/little financial support from your parents, it is always possible to make your own money, and then come to your competitive career in a serious way later in life.
 
haha.. yes gamebird.. it really is the case.. unless you have really really amazing talent.. and then you get spotted by someone with lots of money,:p (pheobe buckley :D) .. because even this years entries fees at intro work out to about £700 alone!!:eek: (i better keep saving! £400 to go :eek::o:()
 
It is do able but like others have said in order to be recognised as a ride for others horses (those with more money) you need to be competing already at a fairly high level and if you don't have the money for the horse, lorry, entry fees etc etc you just can't do it
 
Sarah2207 said:
But, I think if you are completely dedicated, and prepared to take a huge gamble with a few years of your life, it is possible to "make it" with very little financial help. So long as you are prepared to work extremely hard and have alot of luck!!
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I'm prepared to work extremely hard - it's the the luck I'm missing out on! haha lol
 
I used to work for an event rider that inherited millions when she was 25, she bought a really talented advanced horse and a few youngsters, along with a lorry etc. However she never really made it to top level even with all her money and she was a very good rider too.
At one point she was looking for sponsorship as she reckoned it cost her easily £10k a year to keep her advanced horse going. This was in 1997!

After a few years she gave up, so just goes to show money isn't everything, you do need to be bloody talented and have a lot of luck as well!
 
Horses are not a poor mans sport and IMO you need money.

Having said that there are a few people who have sweated blood to get to the top but it has taken an awful lot longer than someone who has money available at a young age.

If you have to teach, freelance ride, etc etc to eek out a living and pay for your own horses that is taking time out the day when you could be concentrating on your own horses and competitive career. Likewise if you don't have your own yard you are having to pay livery fees so again when starting out it is deffo better to have money so you can concentrate on your career rather than earning a living.

Another way I have seen is I know a girl who was originally a jobbing groom with a desire to be a prof SJer so she attached herself romantically to someone already established and hung off his coattails. She admitted she didn't particularly like the bloke but she liked the facilities and opportunities he provided and ultimately the monied contacts.


The biggest thing I think is a persons self belief, if you really want to make it you'll find away but money makes that journey a hell of a lot easier and quicker.
 
Yes money is definitely a requirement!- and talent too - i don't think you can have one without the other in order for a rider to get to the top of their game!
 
Gamebird said:
As far as I can see you need money to compete at the bottom :(
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That's for sure!

I enjoy Trec, but the fees alone with corralling, camping etc etc can come to over £60 and thats before fuel to get there and food to eat! BUt we pay it because we love it, and certainly the fees have to be there to pay the venue hire, lke everything else.......

This last year, I've had to be really picky to what I can do, as you can soon blow over £50 at a local show....

We take the camping stove and make our own bacon butties and brew our own tea, so at least we save on food! :D
 
With horses, you need money just so that they can stand in the field!

Talking to one of my friends last year, she was bemoaning the fact that it would cost her several hundred pounds more to do a 1* being run about 50 miles away, than it would to drive her lorry to France and compete at a 1* there - and that was taking into account the cost of fuel!

It's mad!
 
Seahorse said:
I used to work for an event rider that inherited millions when she was 25, she bought a really talented advanced horse and a few youngsters, along with a lorry etc. However she never really made it to top level even with all her money and she was a very good rider too.
At one point she was looking for sponsorship as she reckoned it cost her easily £10k a year to keep her advanced horse going. This was in 1997!

After a few years she gave up, so just goes to show money isn't everything, you do need to be bloody talented and have a lot of luck as well!
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hmm, well, i'd argue that she was either very very unlucky (horses which kept going wrong or something, which is heartbreaking and sets one back hugely) or just not dedicated enough. with millions i think that ANY rider with enough talent and dedication could easily get to 4* (or GP, or whatever) and make an impression.
 
It would appear to me that eventing used to be a disapline where you could possibly make it up to the top without tooooo much money. However things seem to have changed considerably and unless you have all the facilities/training to hand plus quality horse/s it is nigh on impossible. Take a look at how much it costs to just go x country training far less the actually going to competitions with all that entails. I am not up to date on how much it costs to go hunting which was another route to training event horses. I expect that is a pretty hefty cost nowadays too.

The costs of buying potential top class show jumpers or dressage horses are outwith most people's budgets,someone I know has just bought a very nice but not top top class dressage horse and has got no change out of £40,000, how many people can even afford, have the facilities, to try and breed their own superstar? what % of horses bred by "amateurs" actually make it to the top? what happens to these horses which turn out to not be super stars!? Years ago I was asked to keep a detailed record of how much I was spending when eventing at novice/1* level, to include livery, vet, farrier, travelling/ transport costs, insurance, training, tack purchases, entries, etc etc etc. God it was frightening, I was happier with my "head in the sand". Unfortunately OP unless you/your relatives have lotsa money or you can find a very wealthy backer/sponsor, which is unlikely unless you are close to having "made it" you cannot get anywhere near the top IMO. To have dreams of stardom are nice but in reality best to enjoy your horse at whatever level you are competing at.
 
kerilli said:
hmm, well, i'd argue that she was either very very unlucky (horses which kept going wrong or something, which is heartbreaking and sets one back hugely) or just not dedicated enough. with millions i think that ANY rider with enough talent and dedication could easily get to 4* (or GP, or whatever) and make an impression.
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Hmm talent does come into it too.
I used to jump against someone at the lower levels who had obviously limitless funds. He bought the very best horses but could not ride for toffee!! They would start off not too bad quickly get sickened of being socked in the mouth and bounced about on and start stopping. He'd then sell for a fraction of what he paid and the next rider would pick up a cheap horse that would frequently do brilliantly with them - at least a couple got to HOYS.
He was just one of those people that proved money cannot buy you everything!
 
You need money to make it anywhere even in smaller events! For example I don't have access to a lorry or trailer, meaning transport alone to small shows is £100+ a time which just isn't viable to be out very often!

Emily obviously does have a very decent financial backing, however I do commend the fact that she is working at her degree alongside her competing and not just relying on her riding talents.
 
I think talent, hard work, determination and pure star quality will always find a way to the top. Look at Phoebe Buckley, her background is a very unlikey one, and I gather that she turns up at all these swanky events in 3.5 ton lorry. Good on her. However, from my experience of eventing, yes you do need money. In fact, some of the obvious wealth I see just floating around in the guise of horseboxes and the horses themselves is quite frightening.

I have a daughter who does have a modicum of talent, has inherited a hard work ethic from her parents and has a talented horse. She is doing her GCSE's this year, and would really love to turn professional and event for a living. I have a good job and a business, but am not a multi millionaire who can afford to buy her talented horses, nor fund her own yard at the moment. We have told her to be realistic, do your A Levels, get a job, work hard. Alternatively, find employment with a professional rider after your A levels and learn the hard way. Who knows? All I know is that I cant possibly afford to fund this to the level she would need, even with sponsorship from my company. So unless we win the lottery or she inherits a massive legacy from an unknown relative, the answer is yes you do need money to compete at the top.
 
IMO Money or/and an inordinate amount of talent and business acumen. I think a talent for business as well as riding is essential if you don't start out with money.
:)
 
kerilli said:
hmm, well, i'd argue that she was either very very unlucky (horses which kept going wrong or something, which is heartbreaking and sets one back hugely) or just not dedicated enough. with millions i think that ANY rider with enough talent and dedication could easily get to 4* (or GP, or whatever) and make an impression.
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She was quite unlucky, she had 2 good seasons and qualified for Badminton, then she hit a bad patch and it all went wrong for her. Horse wise and personal stuff too, her husband left her then her parents sold the house where her yard was.
She was (and still is I imagine!) a very good rider, very dedicated and hard working, she was an event groom before she inherited her money. She travelled to Kentucky with Primmore's Pride for Pippa when she won the grand slam.

Actually looking at her BE record she has achieved a lot, it's not like she's never done anything!
 
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