Do you think my prices are fair?

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sammylou93

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I am looking to charge £100 per week for Part Livery (7 day care, hard feed, forage, bedding) and £120 pw for Full (As Part with 3 x excercise, tack cleaned afterwards, numnahs/boots washed once per wk).

I am in the Cotswolds and have a huge outdoor arena with fab surface, access to hundreds of off road hacking, good turnout, big stables in an american barn, full set of SJs, horsewalker with gallops 10 mins hack down the road.

If you could let me know what you think that be appreciated. Thank you.
 
My last yard it was £100 p/w part livery.
Including, much out, turn out bring in, rug change, hayledge and hard feed and a certain amount of bedding a week.
We had an indoor and 2 outdoors.
 
My mum pays £100 per week - this includes 7 day care, daily turnout & rug changes, feed, Hayledge etc. Exercise, worming etc all extra, they don't have the facilities to wash boots / rugs.
They have a 20x60 outdoor, a trashed 20x40 outdoor (usually used for turnout), and an indoor school. Hacking is ok too, and can be done off road - but not the 100's acres you have.
 
Only £20 extra for 3x exercise and tack cleaning!!! :eek:

How much would you charge just for a horse to be exercised.

That would be cheap round here TBH.

Think it depends on the area and the competition you have.
 
part livery sounds very reasonable indeed, is anything from £90-£120 round here for that and would expect the cotswolds to be more.

full sounds cheap, unless by exericse you mean hacked out by anyone or walker/lunge sessions rather than proper schooling by a competent rider. Also would depend on duration of exercise. I know of one yard that charges £25 per ½hr session to their own liveries, conversely on another yard it's only an extra £20 a week to have your horse "exercised".
 
Thank you for your replies, I was thinking of charging £15 for one of schooling sessions for Part liveries. I'm careful not to price myself out of the market, but I don't want to seem too cheap as I am always suspicious of those yards.

Would I be better to charge Full livery without the tack cleaning and to have 3 or 4 45 minute sessions on the walker or 45mins hacking for £120 and then to have a schooling livery at a higher price and that would inc tack cleaning, schooling/jumping/hacking or the gallops?

As a rider I have very good trainers and I event, dressage and hunt and have successfully backed and brought on but I'm not a 'name' although I have very good refs.
 
sammylou93 said:
Would I be better to charge Full livery without the tack cleaning and to have 3 or 4 45 minute sessions on the walker or 45mins hacking for £120 and then to have a schooling livery at a higher price and that would inc tack cleaning, schooling/jumping/hacking or the gallops?
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That sounds like a better idea as 120 is too cheap for schooling livery I think. good luck with your busines :)
 
With good facilities it would be about £120 to £140 pw for part livery round here! Full livery is up £700 or more per month.:eek: That is why I am DIY:D
I think how much you charge for ridden excercise depends on how skilled the rider is tbh.
 
Part livery sounds reasonable for 7 days. Full livery with exercise, tack cleaning and boots numnahs washed sounds an absolute bargain.
 
I paid £130 a week for backing livery, so included everything including tack cleaning, mane pulling etc and horse schooled / hacked 6 days a week. This is in Wiltshire. Said person has competed around Burghley in her day.
 
Originally Posted by sammylou93
Would I be better to charge Full livery without the tack cleaning and to have 3 or 4 45 minute sessions on the walker or 45mins hacking for £120 and then to have a schooling livery at a higher price and that would inc tack cleaning, schooling/jumping/hacking or the gallops?


Yes I would have tack cleaning as a totally separate price that everyone can have as an "extra". And riding at least £10 per session whatever you do with the horse.
Best of luck with it - it sounds a great place!
 
Most of you will know I run a large livery yard and can see you all falling into the common trap of asking what other people charge and should I be the same.
Remember the minimum agricultural wage is now £6.00 with NIC and Holiday pay you will have to pay out £6.50 per hour and so work on these costs.
If you have to doing the work your self you should think of £8.00 per hour for your self.
Or this relates too £13,500 annum on a minimum wage based on 45 hrs per week.
Builders, plumbers and electricians want £180.00 per day what happens when things go wrong? can you afford them!!!
Depreciation and repairs on buildings and schools to cost in.
Fence repairs and replacements.
Simply car batteries cost £45.00 unless from a breakers
hard feed £20-30.00 per month
hay and hayledge is currently £60 per month
Shavings 2 bales per week minimum at £7.50+
any more PM from now on
Hope this helps
 
Rob Lakeside said:
Most of you will know I run a large livery yard and can see you all falling into the common trap of asking what other people charge and should I be the same.
Remember the minimum agricultural wage is now £6.00 with NIC and Holiday pay you will have to pay out £6.50 per hour and so work on these costs.
If you have to doing the work your self you should think of £8.00 per hour for your self.
Or this relates too £13,500 annum on a minimum wage based on 45 hrs per week.
Builders, plumbers and electricians want £180.00 per day what happens when things go wrong? can you afford them!!!
Depreciation and repairs on buildings and schools to cost in.
Fence repairs and replacements.
Simply car batteries cost £45.00 unless from a breakers
hard feed £20-30.00 per month
hay and hayledge is currently £60 per month
Shavings 2 bales per week minimum at £7.50+
any more PM from now on
Hope this helps
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Good post ^^^^

your full livery is too cheap imo
 
sammylou93 said:
£135/£140 per week sound about right for schooling livery?
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The few i called about schooling livery were charging £150 in your area for schooling- However call it £125 and i may book in!- where in the Cotswolds are you based?
 
I think there is a difference between exercise and schooling, both in terms of what's involved and what to expect. If it's someone competent hacking the horse out or doing a spot of proscribed work with it, I think someone should expect to pay less than having actual work done on the horse by someone with a proven track record.

RL makes a very good point, though. You have to be in a sustainable situation AND you have to be able to deliver what you're promising. I actually stopped having a yard of my own because almost every horse there was for me to ride and I couldn't ride enough horses properly to have enough in to hire someone else to do the yard work! (I figure 10 horses = one person to care for in a part livery situation but 10 is a lot to ride if you're really schooling them properly and don't have yet another person to help get horses ready etc.) It makes more sense for me to "sub contract" and school on an individual basis for a yard that has other people to do horse care and hacking, which also means they don't have to pay me when I'm not riding, as it were.

So you might be better off offering only a couple of full spots but asking a more competitive rate. If you offer your part people a good price for exercise and schooling and they're happy with the results, they might move up to full at some point but if full people aren't getting what they expect, they'll likely leave.
 
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I still think you're too cheap....

Your Part Livery is right, but around here full livery is £150/week. Inc exercise 4/5 times a week, groom and tack clean. tbh I think people on full livery will want their tack cleaned.

Schooling/breaking livery is always stated as please phone to enquire. If it is just basic riding I think it's charged the same as full livery. If it has problems (as in would take 2 members of staff) they are charged more.
 
McNally said:
The few i called about schooling livery were charging £150 in your area for schooling- However call it £125 and i may book in!- where in the Cotswolds are you based?
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Hi McNally, I am 4 miles from Stow on the Wold. Super hacking, arena, stabling and care/management.

Yep agree with you TarrSteps that if I am working flat out to get through the work then standards could slip and then client's aren't getting value for money. I have space for max 6 liveries with 4 of my own, which are getting cut down to max 2 (I know you don't make money doing your own!).

I was thinking that by having walker/hacking for full livery then people could still have their horse excercised as they are happier to do the schooling themselves. And then the schooling livery for client's that are happy for me to do all the work.

Or am I just making life complicated for myself??
 
Please stop feeling you must give value for money!!!

All the last three posts I have read have tried to advise you that the money you will be charging to the clients will be swallowed up by overheads.
Firstly you must put a buiness plan togeather. This i will list!
labour 8 horses a day, yes you can do that till you have a fall.( based on£50.60 per day )
feed costs(hard and hay)
Shavings
Accountant who will make life easier £250.00 per annum
Site rent
NFU buiness insurance package for public liability insurance and fire-theft etc cost???
Council tax/Rates. cost???
What money will you need toput into the company,will you make it back.=Bank charges./loans etc.

Find out all your overheads first, then see what other yards in the area charge. then you will know if you can make a profit or is it worth investing in.
Reread my first post
If you need more direction PM.

Finally will the horses need exercising 3 x a day?
What direction are you going in?
 
I agree with the above that the part livery is spot on but the full too cheap. I used to run a yard where they charged £20 an hour just for hacking exercise. I do think its important for tack cleaning etc to be included in the price. If I'm going to be riding a horse I'd rather know the equipment I was using was well looked after. Hope that makes sense!
 
You are in business to make a profit, and you need to make the business easy to manage.
Re feed, I think you could feed them all the same, eg Allen and Page C&C, but the owners might want individual additives etc, 17,00hh horses need bigger feeds and stables, so its not that easy to decide. Do not charge less per hour for riding just because that is what you fancy doing, you will have to pay skilled staff to ride their horses, and you will need to pay them and insure them etc etc.
It is better to have ten horses paying £200 than twenty horses paying £100.
Your accountant is sure to charge £500 and that assumes you do all the paperwork.
Employing people is an expensive necessity, and sometimes they just up sticks and go!
Give them one bale and a half of shavings per week, and bill them for extra.
You need to be building a nest egg for maintenance and for new facilities.
Do not try to "do 8 horses", it is ridiculous. Do not feel you have to compete on all levels, set up a system you can work with and set a price, then add on 25 to 50 percent for your "profit"
The yard I am on gives the horse am feed puts the the horse out and brings it in, I put out the feed and have to muck out before 5.)) pm This costs £30 per week. The horse has to have a rug on if to be put out in a rug. Shavings at cost. Forage £10 per week.
 
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I recently phoned round for price of schooling livery,,,,, 5 or 6 days handling and one day off, the (young) horse was ridden as decided by the rider, and I paid £140 per week. I was very happy with the result. The horse was done well and was happy, only criticism was that the deep litter bed was a bit wet. I am very fussy, but I had professional riders and the horse was out at grass during the day and in at night. This is the sort of payment I would be happy to pay longer term with horse ridden a full hour 3 times per week and on a walker twice a week. In this instance I would have negotiated for more bedding, that would have upped price to £145 per week.
I would not really want someone to school my horse on a regular basis, unless I was a Katie Price, in which case you would be toooooo down market lol
 
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galaxy23 said:
Schooling/breaking livery is always stated as please phone to enquire. If it is just basic riding I think it's charged the same as full livery. If it has problems (as in would take 2 members of staff) they are charged more.
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We charge £140 pw for backing (in Shropshire) - but would charge considerably more for hunter liveries (if we did them - I don't - except for OH's hunters!)

Backers actually take quite a lot less time than hunters: they don't need plaiting or a HIGH level of turnout, and they aren't fit enough - mentally or physically - to do more than about 30-40 minutes 'work' a day. There is a period (about a week normally) when all backers need two people, before you get to the stage where it just needs someone to keep an eye on the manege to ensure there isn't a loose horse and a rider on the floor! :D And of course you don't feed the same level of concentrates to a backer. A serious 'schooling' livery takes more ridden time - but doesn't need two people (unless it's a REAL problem horse) so it balances out over the average length of stay.

Remember the minimum agricultural wage is now £6.00 with NIC and Holiday pay you will have to pay out £6.50 per hour and so work on these costs.
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I think that's very conservative for adult staff. With holiday pay you are now paying staff for 3-4 weeks that they aren't there! And - chances are - you'll have to get in someone to cover for them - unless you're overstaffed to start with! The true cost of employing someone is closer to £8 per hour! And that would be grooms, who ride well enough to exercise. A good schooling rider who is also backing will want more per hour than NMW (and deserves it!)
 
When I sent my youngster he was backed and ridden away, not a problem horse (though they do take these one too), yes not a lot of hard feed, just good handling, good riding and general education. However they had to factor in "youngster unpredictablility".
Even now I would not want an ordinary rider to school my horse, he is just too clever, and needs experienced person to ride him, every day is a learning day for him.
Hunter liveries are very labour intensive, schooling over jumps, long hours of road work etc, plus extra hard feed, so that would be much more than a standard livery.
 
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My rent is inclusive of my water, electricity, muck heap removal, building insurance, field/arena maintenance. I can also buy forage and bedding very cheaply from my landlord as it is of the farm. A friend buys her hard feed straight from the feed merchants and I can put in a order along with her which will make a little saving rather than buying of the shelf as it were.

In the area full livery ranges from a basic at £110 pw to all singing all dancing for £180 and everything in between. To me is it not better that I try and fill the yard with a cheaper livery than hold out to get a higher price and risk sitting empty for 6 months??

Hunter would certainly be a lot more than standard full livery what with the work!!
 
sammylou93 said:
In the area full livery ranges from a basic at £110 pw to all singing all dancing for £180 and everything in between. To me is it not better that I try and fill the yard with a cheaper livery than hold out to get a higher price and risk sitting empty for 6 months??
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Well if you were empty for six months then you wou;d be doing something wrong, the yard I have just moved to has at least six empty stables, or at least he had last week, and now four horses have moved in, there has been a lot of horse movement in this area for a number of reasons, he did some advertising and now has increased basic income by £120 per week, I don't think he is too expensive or too cheap, just hit a flat spot and now its all looking better, I did think he might be too expensive and therefor had vacancies, but now he is filling up again. Without being a moaner, I think he either pays too much for his haylage or takes a bit too much profit from it, but it is the going rate locally, with one exception.
I think we have to look at variable costs in detail...... extra full livery incurs extra staff costs, but filling the empty stables with out extra staffing looks more attractive if you have fixed overheads,
If you fill your yard in the first week you will have to sit and suffer for a year, most likely you have undercharged, you should take advantage of the cheap forage to increase your profit margin, I think this will go against the grain as you seem to want to pass on all your little gains to your customers..... no no no. You want some customers who are well able to pay, they are often easier to deal with than those who are cash strapped.
 
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