Do you think 'twitching' should be banned...

[puddicat]

... because it’s cruel OR is it a harmless and very effective method of control?

If you tried twitching a carnivore like a doggy it would yelp or have your leg off, if you twitched a person it would be considered torture and have you up for GBH. Herbivore pain response is a bit different so conveniently, putting the horse in extreme pain just causes it to switch off . Does that make it OK then? It’s certainly useful as a method of restraint and after you’ve given its nose a rub there’s no sign of any damage (or at least there shouldn’t be!).

 

[WelshRareBit]

I dont think it will ever be banned. I have never seen it done OR done it - but I know it is widely done. In short, lI'll wait to hear a knowledgable persons view!!
xxx

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

See now i understand fully that its a good form of control etc and that it releases hormones that makes the horse sleepy and calm BUT i have still never in my life been able to use one myself and i would never allow one to be used on my horse - never - i just cant do it
edited to say this should be a good discussion

 

[xxcharlottexx]

It must be uncomfortable for the horse after its taken off as surely the lip will be bruised/tender, even if it does release hormones at the time

i dont think it should be banned, but perhaps only vets/farriers/dentists (qualified people) should be allowed to do it

While i was at the vets today another horse was having its teeth done much to its dislike. it was rearing and jumping around, so they put a twitch on and it made the job easier, was only on for 5mins, and it saved it having to be sedated

I think Id rather have my horse twitched than put chemicals into its body when being sedated

today was one of the first times id seen it done, and id probs want to avoid it if possible, but if someone trained was doing it and horse was playing up then id let them twitch my horse.

Id never attempt to do it myself or infact want to!

 

[Irishcobs]

I don't twitch in the way of the rope round the top lip but I do grap a piece of skin on the neck or chest and twist a quarter of a turn. This is very good at keeping them still for the vet or getting them to back up. I will however twitch the top lip if it is needed and would not have a problem doing it. I would only do this if the horse was being dangerous to itself or me. I wouldn't twitch for clipping etc if the horse was being naughty/scared as its normally a fear of the clippers and that can be sorted with patients and training.

 

[kerrylou123]

i've used a twitch, and if needed, will use one, but i don't really like them, and luckily, i rarely need to use one on my horses!
I was really badly put off using one when i was told to hold a twitch for somebody (they had put the twitch on) and after 5 mins, i took the twitch off and it had burnt her horses top lip, and to this day, you can still see the scar that it has left, and that was 3 years ago!

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

I've finger twitched my lad & also used a twich on him. Providing the rope in the twitch is of a reasonable girth it does it's job well, releases the endorphins that sedate the horse slightly & everything goes well. I believe it's better to do that than give them sedalin/acp for a quick job. Once you release him he's back to normal with no after effect.

I once saw a vet go to use one & I intervened. He was using one made up from bailing twine!!! This would have caused untold harm & probably cut into the horses nose causing nasty injury. It was disgraceful & he should have known better.

 

[Irishcobs]

Oh yes you see a lot made from bailing twine.
Anyone know how the metal twitches work?

 

[christian]

i HATE seeing it done, but his doesnt mean i think its wrong, but i and prefer to use a control headcollar or one of those thinks that are like a headcollar that go under their top lip (you can let them go whenthe horse starts behaving nd tigten it accordingly), but neal used a twitch to clip todgies ears last year and it was effective but i couldn't bear to watch.

 

[Iestyn]

I have used it regularly on my boy. A few years ago he had a nasty injury which needed proud flesh timming every week (for 6 months) by the vet - instead of sedating him for a 5 minute job he was twitched. I've used the humane twitch and the "old-fashioned" one of baler twine attached to a bit of broom handle - I have to say that the "old fashioned" twitch was far easier and more effective and never caused any mark or injury. I will still use it if I am in the position that I need to - not long ago we had to have the vet out to investigate lameness. We used a twitch whilst the vet administered the nerve block into the back of the heel - a very delicate sensitive area which needed the needle to go in at a spot on place and not be interfered with the horse moving around.

I think with anything in the horsey world - if it's done correctly then it's ok, but in the wrong hands all sorts of methods have the capacity to be unkind to a horse.

 

[flyingfeet]

We have always used a twitch when necessary.

Its the last resort and only used when someone (human or horse) is about to get injured.

I have to use one to trim the ear fluff on one of my boys, I've tried natural horsemanship & desensitizing, however it tickles and irritates him and I really don't want to stab him with a pair of scissors. He is twitched for less than 2 mins and as loose as possible (I sometimes get away with just my hand). Plus I only do this around twice a year.

 

[puddicat]

I had a metal "humane" twitch but it was so human I couldn't get it to word so I use a traditional bit of rope on the end of a stick. It never used to bother me what the horse might be feeling because if I was using it, it would be to prevent myself getting stood on and I was more concerned about that. These days I'm a bit less comfortable with the idea - although I still do it because it works and its easy.

I try everything else I can think of first though except ear twitching, that just seems counterproductive.

 

[Molineux]

I do not think twitching should be banned and no its not curel.

To be honest if you have a horse that is a bit silly when doing things I would rather twitch then get kicked in the head or bitten!

I used to have to twitch my old horse when we clipped his ears and face as he HATED it! he would go up on his back legs as soon as they got on his face, and I would rather twitch then my hurt him or cut him with the clippers.

If you grab hold of your horses ear say when clipping HARD, its just the same in my eyes.

Sorry but its a method that has been around for many years, vets use it, and I am sure if it was cruel they would not be doing it.
xx

 

[Chex]

I used to have to twitch Chex to wash his legs (bad mud fever), the only other option would be to get the vet out to sedate him every evening which is not convenient or finacially good! It stopped him throwing his legs about and running over the top of me. I've not used it in years, he got better and better until I didn't need the twitch at all, now he's stand without a halter on, perfectly still. I found the metal one didn't work, so used a rope one. It just seemed to send him to sleep, he certainly wasn't stressed or bothered.

 

[ihatework]

Interesting post. I have to admit I have used the broom handle and rope top lip twitch on a number of occassions, I don't particularly like using it but when it's a question of keeping safe I will resort to it. Most recently my horse was twitched for a navicular nerve block, priority was needle in the correct place and vet alive to tell the tale!

 

[lusty]

I hope twitching is not banned i'd never get my horses ears clipped out!! As long as a twitch is used by someone that knows what they are doing, i don't think its cruel.

 

[Tia]

No I don't think it should be banned, however I do think it should come with a caution to those not in the "know".

I was a bystander to a muppet using a twitch, home-made one with the old fashioned baling twine.....I had no problem with that, however the person using it, twisted it way too tightly, left it on for far too long and quite obviously didn't have a clue! After warning him a couple of times, and after he did not take the twitch off after 20 minutes had gone by I stepped in and told him to take the twitch off the horse otherwise he would cause permanent damage. He took it off. A couple of weeks later I was visiting his horse and it had "cut" marks on it's nose. I said to him that they would have come from the twitch and that he should be more careful with it if he ever used it again in the future.

A few months later I went back to see the horse again and lo and behold she now has pretty white hair there now! He was a little embarrassed and told me that he would never use a twitch again. I was pleased to hear that he had Lived and Learned.

 

[KateStartin]

I work with horses and believe me that twitch comes out quick if there is any chance of injury to person or horse.

Will also twitch my horse if needed he just goes to sleep and makes life a lot less stressful for both of us. I believe that with this particular horse it does not cause him much stress as he is the type to tell you if he is not happy with the situation and he is easy to twitch!!!!

He can get the humane ones off though so have to use broom handle.

 

[cariadssogreat]

I dont think any one would twitch a horse for the hell of it. I will always twitch a horse if it was a case of horse or human safety. I have never seen an injury caused by a twitch - and as a previous response said as long as they are used in the right manner by the right people - fine.

 

[Bert&Maud]

Correctly done I don't think it hurts them. Take hold of your own top lip and squeeze it between your fingers, it's not a particularly sensitive area (or mine isn't anyway!). However it is an extremely quick and effective means of quietening them, and I use one each time I clip my boy's legs, if I didn't by now he would be walking about on 3 legs as he fidgets really badly! Never leave it on for more than 5-10 minutes and give the nose a good rub afterwards, followed up by a carrot or two and there's no hard feelings!

 

[lisan]

In the right hands a useful tool and not cruel when done properly. Never used a twitch myself, but the vet and YM have used one on my previous horse when she got dangerous.

I did use my hand when clipping about two square inches round Mays left ear last week!! She let me do the right side but would'nt let me do the other.

 

[claireross]

Well ive seen them work really well on some horses, so they can work. But we tried to twitch my horse to pull his mane and he lost the plot, threw himself around so much that he fell over and pulled me on top. So i will NOT be using one again.

 

[puddicat]

Quote: Correctly done I don't think it hurts them.

Ah but that's the problem - what do you mean by 'hurts' if you mean cause pain then I think you'd have to assume it casues them extreme pain because that's how it works ie why there is an endorphin release. We are used to the pain response of our species which is to jump around and swear very loudly, horses don't necessarily so I wonder whether that means we assume it can't be hurting them that much. Certainly I used to think that.

quote: it's not a particularly sensitive area (or mine isn't anyway!).

No but I'm guessing you don't use your top lip to hunt out food and get it into your mouth. I'll check but I think you can probably assume that a horses lip has quite a high density of nerve endings.

 

[puddicat]

Perhaps you weren't vicious enough. If you get it on quickly and wind it up really tight it almost always works unless the horse has had so many previous attempts you just can't get there. When I've seen it fail (including the first times I did it) its usually because people are being too careful and are only causing the horse pain and not extreme pain and so it still thrashes about. A few more twists and you see its eyes glaze over and then you've got it.

 

[TinselRider]

I would rather nose / finger twitch a horse than it putting itself in danger through stress or panic

so no I don't think nose / finger twitching should be banned....... now ear twitching on the other hand I DO NOT agree with as most horses that are ear twitched come through the other side of the experience extremely head shy

 

[PapaFrita]

Gripping PF's upper lip in one hand has always made her doze off (or at least look all sleepy) almost instantaneously. I don't think it hurts her at all as I'm simply not that strong! Last time I had to 'twitch' her in this way was when the vet was trying to clean a cut on her leg and she didn't wanna.

 

[RunToEarth]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think 'twitching' should be banned...

... because it’s cruel OR is it a harmless and very effective method of control?


[/ QUOTE ]
no.

 

[CrazyMare]

Shoot me down in flames, but my twitch comes out maybe a couple of times a week, for various horses.

For my girl, its mane pulling, clipping, and sometimes leg trimming, which as a show animal all needs to be done frequently.

Now before I get lept on, I DO know how to use a twitch, I never use it for more than 10minutes with out a good break, and I use it to prevent human or equine injury.

My girl has it on beacuse frankly she is dangerous without it. I don't fancy trying to do a full clip while being pinned against a wall and got at with heels and teeth, twitch and a bit of Sedalin work wonders and volia one clipped horse, without being stressed. And we have tried desesnitisation and all the rest, this issue is just too deeply ingrained.

My vet also requests she is twitched to jab, as shes not keen on that either!!

She is an angel in every other way

 

[puddicat]

So the concensus seems to be 'no' (which is what I think too )

But, It still strikes me as odd that in every other aspect of human and animal management/medicine I can think of, the aim is to minimise pain, not use it as a method of restraint. Is this unique to horses and bulls?

Sure it works and has no lasting harm and it would be difficult to think of an convenient alternative - sedation is OK but hardly convenient. But does it mean that its OK to cause pain as long as the animal doesn't show distress? Is it ok to cause a bit of temporary pain to a horse prevent an accident which could result in bigger pain happening to the horse or humans? If I was a horse answering this I think I'd say neigh (sorry couldn't resist).

 

[CrazyMare]

To puddicat.....my mother has used pain to restrain me......I'm severly needlephobic to the point where I loose concious control of my body.

In situations where that has been likely they have used physical restraints, some of which probably did cause pain, but I wasnt 'in' my head at the time!! It was probably also effective!