Do you trust your horse to sort striding to a fence?

Hoof_Prints

Hoof_Prints

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Just a pondering really, I know many instructors will say "keep a good jumping canter and let the horse sort out his striding" but I have accepted my horse just can't do it, left to her own devices she will usually cock it up ! She doesn't like to take long strides (has done, but very rarely and I just can't rely on her to do it as she will usually crash). She has to get it spot on and that is my job, I can leave her to take half a stride too close if I wish, but I don't like how it may end. So do you just point and let your horse do it? or do you have to fiddle around a bit and really watch your striding? I am sure it is not just me, I have ridden several horses, particularly my young ones who have not had their jumping fiddled with by previous riders and I can let them find their own stride easily enough, but the mare I've had the longest just relies on me. I can see a stride pretty well and I will think "that's going to be half a stride out" and prepare on my other horses while letting them make a nice shape, but on this one I have to take a sharp pull and fit two short ones in or I will bulldoze it ! (yes, I've tried for a long time to let her sort herself out)

Just typing my thoughts out and wondering how other's find their horses to jump!
 
My old three star boy used to go off any stride (almost), however he ultimately got bad arthritis in his hocks and retired to the hunting field, finally retiring at 24. As he aged and the arthritis progressed he became more inclined to chip a short one in rather than go on a long one. The 4 year old successor did a lot of grid work with poles at varying distances before he became brave enough to go on a longer one.

I guess nowadays I put the education in to the horse XC schooling and in the arena; in the hunting field I try and sort the direction/pace/quality of canter/not to interfere/read the ground and then leave the horse to it. However, I do see a pretty good stride so maybe it is instinctual??? Dunno.
 
Depends on the horse... Some of them have a talent for it and can judge easily - easily better than I can. Others need to be given very precise instruction and be micromanaged. And then there are some that need you to work with them but are pretty good at sorting themselves out. For instance I am working with a pony that's been out of work for a few years but used to be a proficient little showjumper. He can see the stride himself but needs to be held back or he will rush and crash.

Most school horses will have jumped so many times without guidance from their rider that they'll have learned to do the figuring themselves, which is why I think a lot of people end up with the impression that most horses can do it all on their own. On the same principle, with a younger horse, I think it's better to just sit and be a passenger to fences. Let them make their own mistakes so that they learn (within reason obviously) and then you can step in and help them as they improve. But there are some horses that just can't do it - they're just naturally less good at judging distance and stride, just as we are - and getting them better takes a lot of time and practice.

Free jumping can help with that though... If you want to try something.
 
I think I leave alone, mainly, because if I have the right pace and the balance, then he gets a good spot. He is also very adjustable and will go off most strides. That said, the canter and the spot have to go together. If I have a short, bouncy canter and I come to a long spot, then he may say no, whereas he would have said yes to the same spot from a longer canter.
 
Interesting replies, I agree that most people just assume a horse can work out a jump. I watch others at shows and you see some that just kick and hands go forwards, let the horse figure it out while they steer, and then the other extreme of the "pull, pull, pull, release two strides before" , usually on a very bouncy pony ! probably more to do with the forwardness of the horse though. Free schooled she is pretty much the same, will just keep her own pace and not alter it, so if she gets in close then she scrambles over, gets in long she will have to quickly chip in and makes it over if the fence is small enough. If she meets the jump on a good stride then all goes fine, just depends purely on where she canters. I have tried placing the ground pole far out to teach her to take off the ground further from the fence (just so she knows that she can) and she is fine, but it hasn't transferred much to her normal jumping. It isn't really an issue as I can read the ground quite well but when I watch my rounds back, it looks like I am just sitting there and doing nothing when in fact it is the total opposite! So it make me wonder if other people have to ride their horses the same :)
 
My boy was loose schooled long before he was backed and was quite amazing, jumping the blue barrels which were supposed to be wings, he always had a bascule and if presented correctly he would not hit anything, however, if I put a rider on him who was used to firing show jumping ponies at fences [I had two such riders on him], he was unable to adjust to their tactics.
He needed to work up to his jumping, warming up and so on, I could however put unskilled rider on him and because he was given time and not interfered with, he could jump clear rounds on simple courses under 65cm.
If I put a good adult on him, he really warmed up to his jumping, and became much more confident, forward going and well balanced.
I always allowed my horses to work out how to jump a fence on their own, they need to learn how to do this, if you interfere from the start they will not learn.
 
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I have a strange understanding with my horse, he's amazing cross country but useless at showjumping. So I'm in charge of pace and stride show jumping and he's in charge xc. Works well for us as I'm inexperienced xc so he looks after us
 
Bexx said:
I have a strange understanding with my horse, he's amazing cross country but useless at showjumping. So I'm in charge of pace and stride show jumping and he's in charge xc. Works well for us as I'm inexperienced xc so he looks after us
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Same here - whats behind that? I suppose there is more room to vary things XC but JS needs more accuracy (at unnaffilaited 80 XC anyway) and less space to sort it out.
 
My horse knows far more than me so I don't interfere at all and leave it entirely to him, both xc and sj. My only job is to get the canter right and then sit quietly!
 
I would be inclined to ask about the quality of your canter if she is always chipping in strides

I leave mine to it always have always will they need their integrity for cross country so i always jump with this in mind

I break & produce so for me babies need to learn themselves our job is to give them the right tools to do the job ( a good forward balanced canter) they have to do the jumping. When mare was 4 we had a few incidents of nearly landing on her head when she screwed up. Never does that now. Last year as a 5 year old her fail safe would be to chip in, canter wasnt fully established & she didn't trust herself 100% now she's too big for her boots & always goes long :D
 
I'm far too old and creaky to jump these days but I understood it is the riders job to get horse to fence and the horses job to jump it. why do show jumpers spend time teaching their horses to shorten and lengthen the canter and spend time walking the course if their horse do all the job for them? I think ponies, being a bit brighter than most horses, will adjust their canter but if you are cantering towards a big double on a big horse the last thing you want is for the horse to give you a long one or chip in a short one as you'll be completely wrong for the next element. Same applies to jumping an upright gate as opposed to a spread, or taking on a fence outdoors which is uphill or downhill. the rider must have some influence rather than just pointing the horse at the fence. Decent course builders build their courses to test the rider's ability to get the horse to the fence correctly. Perhaps if you are popping round smallish fences, say less than a metre, it's less important as most horses with any scope will jump that height from a standstill but surely once you've got a decent height track, the rider has some responsibility in getting the horse to the fence in a good jumping canter and in the right place for take off, or did I waste my money taking daughter to all those expensive lessons? Probably!
 
Sames for me xc, more so with my other horse who is a big powerful chap. The long stretches let him use all his power and stretch out, he makes nothing of the big fences as he can power over ! I do look for his stride a very long way out though and judge if he can make it or not, if I need to I will shorten him up a tad a few strides in as the last thing I want is him leaving a leg at a big trakehner :o Team chasing I have no brakes and I find that I make the jumps easily enough, it is interesting to see how the point to point horses go round, they just charge flat out over the biggest fences I've seen ! I agree Oldie48, you don't want to get a bad approach to a double or you end up being flung out the back or having a refusal at the second part. Which brings it back round to the difference SJ and XC. It is a confusing thing as so many people say to let the horse figure it out and you see so many different styles of riding, personally my young horses are left to sort themselves out but I find if I have a good canter they usually get there on a decent stride anyway, I only noticed the difference after having the young ones which is why I ended up pondering ! I think I'm going to start rambling on so I'll stop for now :D On the subject of leaving a stride or taking a long one .. check out Beezie Madden's Cortes C at the last fence, wow... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14nX71vmHlo
 
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Top class rider on top class horse, but she knew how many strides she wanted and she knew where she could take one out, not the same as letting the horse decide although , sometimes, of course they do! Re: SJ v XC there were so many fences with several elements in the xc phase of eventing it's almost becoming SJ with gallops between fences! However, it's what makes finding a really top class eventer so challenging as you need them obedient and submissive for the dressage, careful for the SJ and bold for the XC with sufficient speed to make the time, but still able to look after themselves and the rider!
Hoof_Prints said:
Sames for me xc, more so with my other horse who is a big powerful chap. The long stretches let him use all his power and stretch out, he makes nothing of the big fences as he can power over ! I do look for his stride a very long way out though and judge if he can make it or not, if I need to I will shorten him up a tad a few strides in as the last thing I want is him leaving a leg at a big trakehner :o Team chasing I have no brakes and I find that I make the jumps easily enough, it is interesting to see how the point to point horses go round, they just charge flat out over the biggest fences I've seen ! I agree Oldie48, you don't want to get a bad approach to a double or you end up being flung out the back or having a refusal at the second part. Which brings it back round to the difference SJ and XC. It is a confusing thing as so many people say to let the horse figure it out and you see so many different styles of riding, personally my young horses are left to sort themselves out but I find if I have a good canter they usually get there on a decent stride anyway, I only noticed the difference after having the young ones which is why I ended up pondering ! I think I'm going to start rambling on so I'll stop for now :D On the subject of leaving a stride or taking a long one .. check out Beezie Madden's Cortes C at the last fence, wow... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14nX71vmHlo
Click to expand...
 
'However, it's what makes finding a really top class eventer so challenging as you need them obedient and submissive for the dressage, careful for the SJ and bold for the XC with sufficient speed to make the time, but still able to look after themselves and the rider!'

This article is a little off topic from the original post, but very interesting reading with reference to the above!

http://www.equisearch.com/video/wofford_eventing_lives_051408
 
Thanks Primitive Pony for sharing this, it's a really interesting and informative article and so sorry to high jack this thread further. I had a tape, made in the 1970's for what was then The Midland Bank, which used to sponsor Badminton(I think) of Sheila Wilcock preparing a young horse for it's first event, which was novice. At the event it showed this horse (and also Princess Anne, as she was known as in those days) competing. Frankly the dressage was pretty poor by today's standard, the SJ was straightforward and the XC was a real hunting like track which horses could jump at speed. Nothing trappy, no skinnies just an inviting solid course which would give any horse confidence. Goodness, how things have changed! I'd post it up here but I lent it to a friend and she's never returned it!
 
Frank doesn't trust you, Mum's mare doesn't trust herself ;). Watching my flatwork teacher try and tell Frank where to jump from one day was most amusing ;). He will also kick placing poles out of the way :D.
 
I think a lot of it is to do with how the horse was taught to jump early on. I've generally taught all mine to jump so I've always given them the freedom to jump and figure it out themselves. I took on a warmblood who had been showjumped by pro's and he was a different kettle of fish as he'd clearly had it all very controlled so he was told when to jump, I struggled with that as half the time I'm crap at striding too! Much rather they sort it themselves (to a degree obviously) as that's what they need to know for XC to be safe.
 
My horse knows her job, but she tends to take suicide strides, often taking off about 2 strides away from the actual jump! Sadly for me, it's a lot of work to get a good stride from her. Sometimes I think she's just being a silly moo, since she's 19 and knows exactly what to do!
 
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