Docking

Cinnamontoast

Cinnamontoast

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Am slightly confused (not a hard thing!)

I saw a gorgeous pair of boxers, full siblings from back to back litters (6 or 7 months apart? Not up on seasons etc, just what the owner said). Both dogs, one 11 months, baby of 2 months, are docked. I asked how she managed to get docked boxers (she was dying to talk about them, they were adorable and I'm a sucker for puppies) and she said they're Irish KC registered.

Does this mean she bought them from Ireland or can you register from here and therefore dock? :confused:
 
They would have to have come from Ireland I think, you wouldnt get a vet in this country to dock a boxer now I wouldnt think
 
She would either have bought them from Ireland or the b1tch might be from here but taken over there to whelp. In england working breeds like springers can be docked if they are to be actually working, not in scotland though, we have a total ban.
 
I've often thought why my springer was docked, she's 4 so was born after the ban (I think) so why would she have been docked ? We rehomed her but we know where the home she came from and they definitely wouldn't have worked her. I'd like to know what proof you have to give a vet in order they carry out this procedure, how do you prove they will be worked ?
 
You can't prove they will be worked but you can prove the litter is bred to be worked.
Shotgun certificates, club memberships etc. are asked for by the vets that dock.
It is still legal to dock in Ireland.
 
NOISYGIRL said:
I've often thought why my springer was docked, she's 4 so was born after the ban (I think) so why would she have been docked ? We rehomed her but we know where the home she came from and they definitely wouldn't have worked her. I'd like to know what proof you have to give a vet in order they carry out this procedure, how do you prove they will be worked ?
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You don't need to, tbh.

s4sugar said:
You can't prove they will be worked but you can prove the litter is bred to be worked.
Shotgun certificates, club memberships etc. are asked for by the vets that dock.
It is still legal to dock in Ireland.
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This: you dock the whole litter, some may be worked, some not. You wouldn't want to leave a full tail on a working springer.
 
The gun dog argument doesn't stack up. Fox hounds aren't docked and they have at least the same risk to their tails as a gun dog. The two drag packs I follow routinely bustle through blackthorn hedges and brush their tails on barbed wire as they go under and over it.

Docking is mutilation in the name of fashion, whatever excuses people still find for it.
 
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Our local hunt has HAD to dock some hounds due to thorn damage..so yes the arguement certainly does stack up.Far too many breeds have had their appearance totally ruined by this ridiculous law.
Before too long it`ll be deemed cruel to put shoes on horses!
 
xxMozlarxx said:
And you bought a docked puppy? :eek::eek:
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Ban came in April 2007? My docked one (big liver and white in my sig) is 9 next month. Horrific! Bad me! He's working bred, of course he's docked!

I love how you've tracked a post of mine and resurrected it to have a go: I feel special!

Alec Swan said:
For a gun dog breed, specifically spaniels, I wouldn't buy a puppy that wasn't docked.

Alec.
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Me neither, never again, the tails on my youngsters are lethal, already had one spilt quite badly.

cptrayes said:
The gun dog argument doesn't stack up. Fox hounds aren't docked and they have at least the same risk to their tails as a gun dog. The two drag packs I follow routinely bustle through blackthorn hedges and brush their tails on barbed wire as they go under and over it.

Docking is mutilation in the name of fashion, whatever excuses people still find for it.
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In your opinion.

It's not fashion, it's practicality. Who is it on here who has a working springer and his tail has to be wrapped every time he goes out due to it splitting every time? I'll search out my mate's pics of a working dog she knows who has horrific tail injuries. It's not pretty. :( Springers, as you can see from my sig, have plumes as opposed to smooth tails. Horrible when they get caught in cover, wrapped in brambles and wrench them free.
 
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EAST KENT said:
Our local hunt has HAD to dock some hounds due to thorn damage..so yes the arguement certainly does stack up.Far too many breeds have had their appearance totally ruined by this ridiculous law.
Before too long it`ll be deemed cruel to put shoes on horses!
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They didn't dock the whole pack did they EK? No, they docked the ones with thorn damage - a tiny, tiny proportion of all the hounds in the country.

So is that a reason to mutilate every puppy just in case - even when the closest most of the docked dogs in this country will come to a thorn is the one on the stem of the rose in the bowl on the coffee table?

Dogs don't generally die of tail infections these days, which was why they were docked in the first place. We have antibiotics and we have anaesthetics if they do need the op done as an adult. It's an archaic practice that has long passed its time on any welfare grounds.
 
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No they won't, as these days only dogs bred to work can be docked. A good proportion of these will go on to do the job they were bred for, as they do not make good pets without having a job to do.

Foxhounds and spaniels have totally different tail actions - the way a spaniel uses its tail makes it more suceptible to injury as its action is lower and far more frantic. Until you have seen a working spaniel in action, you cannot understand just how busy these little dogs are, or how much harm they can do to themselves if left undocked. No, they hopefully won't die, but they will be in pain and they will be miserable (I've seen that too) which is equally unacceptable to me.
 
cinnamontoast said:
It's not fashion, it's practicality. Who is it on here who has a working springer and his tail has to be wrapped every time he goes out due to it splitting every time? I'll search out my mate's pics of a working dog she knows who has horrific tail injuries. It's not pretty. :( Springers, as you can see from my sig, have plumes as opposed to smooth tails. Horrible when they get caught in cover, wrapped in brambles and wrench them free.
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In my opinion, yes it's fashion. As you have pointed out, for practicality you can wrap it.

Or perhaps stop shooting birds half dead out of the sky that have to be retreived by these dogs, but that's a different argument.
 
My dog doesn't often work, but he still risks his tail on every walk by diving into hedges! The stuff he has dragged out attached to his tail is very impressive - and uncomfortable for him. He's not docked as he's a rescue dog, and a show type, but he still has the instinct to hunt that all spaniels should have.

We have a non-docked worker at training that has split her tail simply out walking - poor little dog is not happy about it.
 
Blimey CPT what are you on? It is not infection that is the problem with tail/stern injuries ..it is blood loss and the inability to heal properly.However as you say..lets send out working gundogs with tampon holders taped on their tail ends to protect them on a shoot..I vote lumo pink Vetwrap myself.:D:D
Far far better to remove the problem ,same as dewclaws ,before the dog suffers injury.
 
cptrayes said:
In my opinion, yes it's fashion. As you have pointed out, for practicality you can wrap it.

Or perhaps stop shooting birds half dead out of the sky that have to be retreived by these dogs, but that's a different argument.
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Good lord, the fluffy brigade are in full force today!
 
I have a norfolk terrier with a docked tail, that was done by the vet. He's always burrowing into undergrowth, brambles etc, but regardless of that I think he looks nicer with a docked tail, I think some breeds do to be honest.
It hasn't affected him at all, he is the happiest confident little dog you could meet and has no trouble socialising with other dogs.
I try not to think about the procedure too much TBH, if it's done properly by a vet, can't see it's any worse then doing a lambs tail.....
All these things people get bent out of shape over...... Let's put all that energy into banning factory farming, live transport conditions and improving welfare standards in abattoirs, wouldn't that be a bit more significant that docking tails on dogs that otherwise lead exemplary lives....?
 
I must say my dogs are totally pampered but I wish they were dew clawed and docked. Poor Bear was in agony when he ripped off a dew claw :(
 
CPTrayes, maybe you were not hanging around the dog forum to see the pics of KirstyHen's Otto with his tail split and bleeding everywhere and you didn't read about all the time, money and heartache that was spent on making him better.

A tiny, quick snip as a baby puppy that will soon fade from memory is worse, is it?
Have you ever had a wound that has not healed?
Where are all these traumatised docked dogs running around, I certainly haven't seen any....

Have you ever owned a spaniel or worked one? Or am I right in thinking you do not own a dog?
 
cptrayes,

your arguments on this section, are of the same value as are yours on the hunting section; poorly researched, riddled with inaccuracies, and mostly reliant upon the skewed thoughts of others who write with such authority, whilst not actually having a clue what they're on about.

For the rest of you, a word; ;) debate with the jolly old cpt is a complete and utter waist of time, even if you do speak with experience. :D

Alec.
 
Well having bred dogs for centuries I have docked dogs myself..quelle horreure. My way was to do it quietly when the puppies were suckling off mum,a quick snip a dab of pot permanganate to cauterise ..no one even stopped suckling,never mind squeak..and mum did`nt bother to look up either.Now,it is my believe that any trauma at all to her babies would have alerted mum..so ,maybe there was none?
Never has so much rubbish been spouted by the uninformed about this..same a hunting really..but then CPT is anti that as well.Hope she`s vegan.:D:D
 
Alec Swan said:
cptrayes,

your arguments on this section, are of the same value as are yours on the hunting section; poorly researched, riddled with inaccuracies, and mostly reliant upon the skewed thoughts of others who write with such authority, whilst not actually having a clue what they're on about.

For the rest of you, a word; ;) debate with the jolly old cpt is a complete and utter waist of time, even if you do speak with experience. :D

Alec.
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You are so right Alec..but sometimes it is just so bloomin` ill informed and irritating !!:mad:
 
Tail injuries pics courtesy of a forum friend in Yorkshire:
tailinjury02.jpg

tailinjury03.jpg


SpanielTailInjuries.jpg


Dunno where she got the info for the graph, will ask.
 
If an individual dog requires docking, then dock it under GA, painlessly. Save the rest of the dogs from the setback to their growth, health, risk of infection as pups and note which bitches produce dogs that can't hack working with full tails. It is a minority who will 'split' their tails, GA and anaelgesia nowadays is safe.
 
SusieT said:
If an individual dog requires docking, then dock it under GA, painlessly. Save the rest of the dogs from the setback to their growth, health, risk of infection as pups and note which bitches produce dogs that can't hack working with full tails. It is a minority who will 'split' their tails, GA and anaelgesia nowadays is safe.
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Seriously?!
 
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