Dodgy position :(

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PonyIAmNotFood

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Also in CR, after competing with uni all the feedback on my score sheets for jumping have been about my position, I need help :(

My jumping position is god awful and the more I try the worse it gets I stand up, don't fold, barely give with my hand and can be found taking the poor horses back teeth out sometimes. If I really try I can make sure I give with my hand but then the rest goes to pot. If the horse is on an off stride, I just don't seem to have the reaction to fold or give or anything, I just sit there like a tool. Why can everyone else seem to realise the horse is lifting in front and automatically fold and give?

Tips would be oh so greatly appreciated, on ways to improve my position as well as how to make it more of a muscle response on my part rather than having to think about it all the time.
 
Whilst I have no advise other than maybe get some lessons with a reputable instructor, I just want to say how I admire your openess and honesty about yourself. So many people these days make themselves out to be amazing when they actually aren't whihc is prob due to insecurities (not digging at anyone on here) but it's so refreshing to have such an honest thread. Hope you are able to improve. I'm sure the pro's on here will give you some great pointers.
 
Cleverer people will tell you all the technicalities. But one of the most basic ways to acquire a good position (if your horse is agreeable!) is to jump small jumps bareback, preferably with him/her in a headcollar. That's how we were all taught as children. You cannot damage his mouth or mess with his stride, and your body will just have to go with the flow! Once you've mastered that you can go into the fine detail.
 
I had exactly the same problem! After being ashamed of many photos I started gradually thinking about changing one part of it at a time as I jumped, focusing on one thing each time. Now it's improved tons, I fold more now and don't pull my horses' teeth out! So just thing next time you jump about giving a bit more with your hands until it feels natural, then move onto folding.:)
 
Grids - with no stirrups then no reins or stirrups - this was an invaluable lesson I had on a jumping clinic that definitely allows you to concentrate on one body area at a time and improves strength, confidence and leg position etc. Would definitely recommend.
 
PonyIAmNotFood said:
Also in CR, after competing with uni all the feedback on my score sheets for jumping have been about my position, I need help :(

My jumping position is god awful and the more I try the worse it gets I stand up, don't fold, barely give with my hand and can be found taking the poor horses back teeth out sometimes. If I really try I can make sure I give with my hand but then the rest goes to pot. If the horse is on an off stride, I just don't seem to have the reaction to fold or give or anything, I just sit there like a tool. Why can everyone else seem to realise the horse is lifting in front and automatically fold and give?

Tips would be oh so greatly appreciated, on ways to improve my position as well as how to make it more of a muscle response on my part rather than having to think about it all the time.
Click to expand...

Do you have a horse to ride on a regular basis that you know? I ask, as 35+ years ago when I was at uni doing the BURCA (British University Riding Competitions) we were presented with everthing from grade B showjumpers to hairy 15hhs that had jacked it yonks ago. TBH, it did little for my confidence and consequently my position suffered for a while, becoming seriously defensive.

It may pay you to focus on riding one horse for a while and then just participating at the competitions where you think you may get a better calibre of horse.
 
I have a similar problem. The biggest improvement I made was when I only started jumping something a little bigger- 2"9" and over, so the horses did make a better shape whereas before they were nearly tripping over the small jumps.

I also imagine as they are taking off that I want to stroke up their neck and touch their ears. This makes me fold forward much more and give with my hands so I don't sock them in the teeth.
I also second jumping down calvaletti lane without reins or stirrups.
 
My position's pretty horrific too, not helped by my youngster's unorthodox style (he's not known as Jump Jet Fergie for no reason!). My theory is that when I've cracked it on him, it will be fine on anything ;)

grids, stirrupless, bareback all sounds beneficial to me...
 
Sounds like you need to stick your bum out the back rather than throw your self forwards. Auslander had a great thread on jumping the other day that had some very useful advice on so it might be worth finding that and having a read.

Do you not get lessons for being on the team? then you could discuss it with your instructor.
 
I feel your pain girl.

Not sure I'd be brave enough for jumping bareback just yet - bareback, bridless jumping - eek !!

I have a similar problem as I tend to stand up in my stirrups and tip forward slightly too early, which means when horse throws in a dirty stop, I bounce off fairly easily as I am already half way over the jump.

Bottom back and hands forward is a good mantra, so feel like you are pushing the two away from each other if you know what I mean. Seems to help me keep my legs on and me 'in' the saddle.

I have a better position when I sit properly in the saddle, look up and focus on leg on, then think about folding from my middle once (if?!) the horse's front legs leave the ground.

Def one to practice over smaller jumps and grids, so that you repeat the right pattern.

I hope this helps a little bit !
 
Can you have lessons on the lunge? we used to have to take stirrups off and arms out...I was small then and the ponies very tiny! we were not on the lunge....but I would want to be now!

If you need everything working independently then could you start with lower leg...how strong is your lower leg? Work on one bit at a time....also agree that a neck strap a good idea. We were made to do an entire lesson out of the saddle to strengthen lower leg.

If it is timing that you struggle with... then see if you can spend some time on a well balanced 'rhymical' horse? once you have develop a rhythm then you may find it easier to feel and see the stride.

I dont jump anymore....so that all may be a pile of 's**T' as this is just what I remember doing years ago! I was also so impressed by your thread.
 
Practice your jumping position on the flat, then over both trot & canter poles. Once you're secure on the flat its much easier to replicate over a jump. Then when you move on to a jump, you need a placing pole to give you an exact take off point. And if you also ride horses that aren't experienced & often take off to soon/ late it will help them as well. What also helps is to try & count the strides down into the fence to give yourself more of an idea when to fold. Eg.3, 2, 1, fold. Even if at first that means going over the same jumps over & over on the same approach till you familiarize yourself with when to fold. And use a neckstrap too.
It's hard to say exactly without watching you, it could just be stirrups too long, saddle too small for you, horse you ride isn't forward or balanced enough & cat leaps etc.
As already said, read auslanders thread too.
 
You need to work out how to isolate body parts off the horse reliably and then transfer on to the horse.

Something like kettlebell swings, deadlifts and good mornings are all exercises where the very first thing you do is take your hips back, so this would correlate to your muscle memory knowing to do that when you ask them when going into jumping position.

:)
 
Don't worry, I have almost the exact same problem, especially bad as my boy loves to jump with his head held low (he has a naturally low head carriage anyway, whatever we do)

I'm just saying to myself "practice, practice, practice"
I need to learn to relax over the jumps, stop relying on my hands and make sure i give my boy the right leg aids before the jump. Oh! And I need to learn to keeps my eyes on the next jump (I have a horrible habit of looking down at the jump while going over it :rolleyes: )

I've noticed that my position starts getting better the more I do gridwork, so I dunno if that might help you.
 
Rose Folly said:
Cleverer people will tell you all the technicalities. But one of the most basic ways to acquire a good position (if your horse is agreeable!) is to jump small jumps bareback, preferably with him/her in a headcollar. That's how we were all taught as children. You cannot damage his mouth or mess with his stride, and your body will just have to go with the flow! Once you've mastered that you can go into the fine detail.
Click to expand...

I'll have to agree with this. Would never have recommended it before but I had the complete same issue has you- just had no concept of what to do when jumping, no natural flare for it anyway, not that I had that much experience. But I got sick of grapling onto the little un's mouth out of both our balance problems so we hit the arena one day- bareback and head-collared, the jumps were huge- standing at a whole foot and a half tops :rolleyes::p
After a few tumbles my balance improved greatly, and we enjoyed it a lot more, working with each other rather than against.

All the best :D
 
Claribella, thanks, I just know I have an issue and need to sort it. It's really frustrating as I get good dressage scores but style in the jumping round really lets me down.

Rose Folly, Gina2201, JFTD, Lintel I only ride other peoples horses, so I could try bareback and no stirrups down a grid, but no reins is out of the question really, what with the old 'elf and safety :(
JFTD, just the name Jump Jet Fergie sounds a bit :O

Gunnergundog, I don't really jump any one horse, it's a different horse every week at training and in between times I don't really get the opportunity to jump. I think I am becoming more defensive as some of the horses we have jumped have been really quite naughty. The first round I really went to pot on was one with a refusal at the second fence, on a horse who had refused with others before me. Maybe didn't help lol. But then spent the rest of the round sat as though it was going to deck me, and consequently did an awful round position wise :(

Angel7, Kerrilli suggested something similar to the stroke up their neck, by tying a plait in up their neck and reaching for it over the jump. Both seem like sound techniques so i'll see which gets into my head easier. Thanks :)

Dafthoss, we do get lessons with the team, and they've really helped with my security but when I don't fold I get 'you need to fold/give/get off them' but not the 'how' part. I suppose I should really have a repertoire of techniques of my own to use, what with being on the team but i'm just not that jump experienced tbh which I think is sometimes forgotten by instructors. Gonna work on it all summer riding at home so I go back with the knowhow to change things when the instructor asks.

Bernster, hands pushing away from bum sounds like a good thing to get in my head. Im gonna be buzzing with so many thoughts next time I jump i'll have to be careful to remember to stay on the horses back as well haha :D

Littlelegs, thanks, that is deffo something I can do on the horses I ride, and I can see it working too.

Beckymason, tigertail, you've given me like seperate but combo advice haha, though i'm not a sure what those exercises are so will need to google. Not exactly the most sporty. But seperating body parts and doing the position in stages sounds sensible.

NU ABO, gridwork was suggested in CR and by my friend so will try that too. And Auslanders thread is a must see, will head over now.

Thanks guys, so have a plan of flatwork over poles with short stirrups and in and out of jump position, walk (ow), trot and canter jump position and 2 point, grids and related distances (maybe without saddle or stirrups depending on horse), and plenty of position techniques to think about over the jumps. And where possible, a neckstrap! As I said earlier, gonna be thinking about so much stuff into the jump I might forget to stay on the horse! Haha.
 
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Should add that it is possible to be defensive and still have a good position in the air, mine can be a dirty stopper so before take off I have to go defensive but then once he has taken off then you give. I'm not sure how high you are jumping but chances are that you dont actually need to fold that much as the jumps arnt that big so I would just try get your bum out the saddle and hands forward but not body and see where that leaves you position wise. Once you have that sorted then you can work on pushing your bum back and hands forward.
 
Our last comp was 90cm, we train over 85/90cm before comps. I see others doing the whole defensive then give thing, they look like they snap into action once the horse is in the air but not before, it's a skill I am most envious of!

Thanks for the vids Toby_Zaphod, will have to look later but greatly appreciated :)
 
If you often jump less experienced horses, sometimes even just a few lessons on a real school master can make a huge difference. I've had quite a few kids & teens on my pony, who like you are more used to riding less well behaved ponies & have similar problems. The improvement after just a few sessions riding one that's straight forward & can be relied on to do the work for you, whilst you concentrate solely on your position really is amazing.
Dafthoss- the more I hear about your pony the more he reminds me of mine when she was younger!
 
Little legs - its so nice to have hope that one day he will turn in to a nice pony :D

PonyIamnotfood - I'm just trying to find you a good video example for you to look at. 90cm on a horse shouldnt mean you have to fold that much on a pony however it totally depends on their ability and jumping style.
 
Dafthoss he's a nice pony now, you know he is really. I can lend you the phrase my daughter uses to defend her pony if its misbehaving- 'she isn't being naughty, she just forgot to be good'
 
Ha I like that :D I normally go for stop being a knobber! What is your problem creature?!?

I know he is nice really I just cant imagine him looking after any one over jumps :o but he might have a little disabled boy coming to see him so I'm intrigued to see how he reacts around him.
 
What worked for me (and totally got me out of my horribly defensive jumping position) was "The grotty public loo analogy" on of my instructors told me this and it is absolutely perfect, and because of the eww factor it sticks in your mind too! And you can practice it!

Don't think about folding forwards, or standing up, or reaching for their ears as there is a significant risk that you end up pivoting from the knee and tipping making yourself insecure. Think about being desparate for a wee and having to go in a really nasty public loo. So you don't want to sit on the seat, but you need to hover over the pan. That is the position you need to adopt.

Try it at home in the loo and feel where you need to be. Then next time you are riding hoik your stirrups up (you may be struggling because you aren't shortening your stirrups enough, I was taught up two for jumping, but actually I need to go up about 5) and try the "grotty public loo position", keep that vision in your head and keep practising.

I find an handful of mane half way up the neck is better than a neckstrap too ;)
 
Dafthoss- a rising 5 miniature x (we think) new forest. She isn't really that naughty in fairness, just more the sort of pony you need to half halt & keep occupied with transitions than a typical kids ploddy kick along type. As keen as daughter to spot an opportunity to canter too. It stems more from the fact pony loves playing with stuff, & tips wheelbarrows, throws grooming kit, pinches your drink etc. She's also the kind of pony that will do anything if she thinks its her idea, but hates being bossed. Other little girl on the yard is quite shouty & bossy so pony & her don't get on, & she's always telling my daughter that she's a naughty pony. Daughter & pony adore each other & she won't let anyone else speak bad of her. (like when she tried to kick the farrier as a youngster she was apparently just stretching her leg when he was nearby)
 
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