does any one else think york sales should have RSPCA presence?????

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tuppence's fortune

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i am open minded and agree people have to make a living and im not going to be a hypocrite and sit here and say i would never buy a horse from a sales ring because 3 of mine are and all are from the same place... YORK SALES. all of them were in very very poor condition in fact one of the shetlands i came home with a few years ago was soooooo bad that my vet told me not to expect him to survive and he would be lucky to live the week out! shetlands by nature are big boned and stocky but my poor little chap bobby was so skinny every bone on his body was visible his head was so close to the floor that he had floor burns caused by friction on the end of his nose and he was that mal-nourished his legs are permanently bowed. he sold in the ring for £20 and the only person that bid was the meat man! i know this because the yard i used to work at had a good rapor with this horrible man! i rushed to his box and emptied out my purse and he drained me of nearly £300 for bobby. foolish of me some people might say reading this? yes probably spending all that on something in such poor condition, but if you new the "nice" meat man and you saw bobby's condition then you would have cried (like i did) it took us nearly a year to get him in condition. and now 6 years later he is full of it cantering round his little paddock with his friends the other 2 shetlands which i have brought back from the past 2 sales i have been with. and the field next to his the little welsh that i bought at the last sale. none bought because i went looking for a horse i went with my now ex boss. and all i bought were because of there poor conditions very poor. and there treatment. and all have turned out to be the most well mannered and loving animals i have ever owned. im not saying everyone should buy from sales, not at all. im saying why is there no presence from the RSPCA? it has a monthly sale and has and on site vet but there should be RSPCA to walk around and look for neglect and abuse! even the vet is "unavailable" every time i have been. and most are sold with out warranty. i have called the RSPCA on a number of occasions regaurding YORK SALES and sent them video and photo graphic evidence of some incidents while i have been there but yet each time i go i have never once seen them there.not every one that takes there horse/ ponies to the sales is like that though some are loved and well cared for. but the ones i am referring to are the ones that are not looked after. now correct me if im wrong but the RSPCA should be at a sales to make sure they are caring for the well being of our animals. that is of course what we pay for and donate to them for. does anyone agree with me do you think that the RSPCA should do more ??
 
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oh and i do think the RSPCA do a very good job im not slatting them for there work when done because it must be a very hard and at time frightening job but they have a duty of care, and there duty of care should involve them attending sales and auctions and if they think it may be dangerous ask for police presence, instead of turning a blind eye to a big and serious problem. after all we pay there wages so they should follow up all complaints and routinely visit hot spots such as sales.
 
I was at the New forest sales afew years ago. The RSPCA where there. I was standing next to a pen with far to many ponies in. One of the ponies fell down and got trod on several times as it tryed to get up and the other ponies paniced. The RSPCA inspectors saw all this happen and just walked off. I went after them and asked if they where going to do anything about the number of ponies in the pen. They just shrugged there shoulders and said "thats just the way it is at these sales" :mad::mad::mad::mad:
I was fuming and went to see the sale organisers. Who where unaware of the amout of ponies in that pen. They made the seller pay for another pen and split the ponies into a more sensable number. :)

I was once told by someone that you should never buy the poorest looking animal at the sales because if everyone tried to save these animals from the meatman then who would save the quality, well and young ones from the meatman. Because he would just buy them instead. :(
I'm not slating you for what you did. I think you did an amazing thing helping that shetland and Luckly for you it all turned out well. I avoid sales as I would want to bring them all home :(
 
I haven't been to York sales for a few years, but I have to say that they were one of the better ones. I've also been to sales where the rspca were less than useless - big havy teenagers were sitting their full weight on tiny miniature shetland foals that looked well under 6 months old and nothing was done at all. They just stood there and conveniently ignored everything, probably because the perpetrators weren't the type you'd confront.
 
In theory, yes, the RSPCA should be at all sales.

But in practice, in my experience, it makes little difference whether they are / aren't. I've seen them at sales where awful things are going on, and they're just not interested.

Agree that EMW should get more support - they do more than the RSPCA as far as I'm concerned.
 
i have seen things like large people riding small ponies and large amounts of ponies and horses in 1 small pen. and i do agree that york is without a doubt one of the better ones which in my opinion even more worrying. i have written ext to the rspca and they do nothing "as we have not had enough complaints for us to believe there is a sufficient problem and a need for our staff to visit the above sales" they continued "although every animal is our top priority and no animal should suffer at the hands of and human. we fight for the welfare of all animals as they can not do it them selves and all reports are investigated" .... erm???? not very well though. i have seen them at appleby and they do do a very good job from what i have seen and heard but is that because they know that the press goes to appleby and it is very well known, and if they didnt go it would kick up a fuss? i had to go with my old boss to these sales but now i do not work for them i will not go to another. i go to appleby though and will continue going there every year because there are animal welfare groups there and it is controlled to a certain degree. and thank you for link i am going on it now. n thank you all for reading my post
 
I went to the last sale at York last week and came away with an impulse buy 6 month filly (no regrets she is lovely) I have been to this sale a few times and agree it is better than some others. Have to say though after what i saw i will never go again, it is heartbreaking for any horse lover to see the way some animals are treated, not by the sale staff, but by the people who are selling or who have bought. Outside loading area was horrific, sickening. At least 6 crammed in a pony trailer couldn't look anymore. Only pleased i got my little girl, god knows where she would have ended up.
 
all i can say is once one i went there was a very pretty welsh sec a filly really beautiful little thing would have done fab at any show as she had a look at me thing about her. she was one of the first in to the ring and was snapped up for a very cheap price. later on we heard that a horse box had been stolen and no one was to walk there horses out through the back entrance (near where the kattle stalls are) we had not heard this as we went to the cafe. we had bought an impulse buy too although ours was v poor con and cost us less than £30. we started to lead the new addition out and saw 2 of staff covering over the beautiful little welsh with a blanket. the man that had bought her for a song (dealer) had rushed her in to box and she refused, reared up and has she did this he had tried to spin her round to give her a belt and she tripped over and broke her neck on the steep step at the back where i told you about above. it was awful and to top it off the w*****r had stolen a horse box to have a quick get away! and left the poor filly there! i think that was when i really started to wonder why the RSPCA havent gone to any. im sure if they would have been there on that day one more horse would be alive. oh and still no more replies from RSPCA as yet. and thank you all for your posts
 
I think Trading Standards have a duty to enforce the market welfare legislation, as well as passport and transport legislation. Do they go to York?

I've seen them at New Forest sales. The RSPCA attend there too - but don't have a duty to like I believe Trading standards do.
 
Yes i definatley think there should be some form of RSPCA presence there. I have only been to york sales and no others so with some of you guys saying it's one of the better sales that's pretty worrying. I have been once and it was very upetting. I know a lot of the 'dealers' who go - the ones who are big families and don't class themseleves as dealers - not as friends just because they are in my area and I have also seen what happens to thesepoor horses before as afterwards.
There are some decent horses to be found, but it always baffles me when they say there from loving homes and in no rush to sell and want them to go to the right person- why bring them to a sales?
 
WoopsiiD said:
Don't go to Henley than is all the advice I have....heartbreaking. Even my brick on a string broke. :(
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I bought two beautiful and well cared for thoroughbreds at Henley a few years back- nobody was looking for tbs so I got them at bargain prices. It is heartbreaking but I have seen worse. :(
 
photo of one my friend brought back a few months ago from york ...http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...21392678_100000519423381_365482_2875489_n.jpg

not putting on the weight and is turning into a lovely little mare. no trading standards do not attend as far as i know at least they have never been seen there. i think th RSPCA take the view of if they dont see it its not there problem. 1 horse they can cope with but 4-5-6... and the hassle they would get from the dealers for taking there horses away... something needs to be done about it and they need to pull there fingers out there backsides. trading standards will only investigate the accused people not the actual sales, but half the people (over half actually) that take there horses there give false names and no warrentys on the horses you cant look for someone that doesnt exist. i think they should monitor the sales rather than just the people that go.
 
Not been to York sales but do go reasonably often to Holmfirth which I understand is worse, all horses there are unwarrented. The only time I have ever seen the RSPCA there was when VOSA/police etc were looking for red diesel.
I can understand that a lone inspector would need back-up with the folk who go there but maybe if they or Trading Standards or the responsible council officer and a police officer were there regularly the conditions might improve.
We notified the market manager this week about one youngster we were concerned about. The problem had been sorted in about 5 minutes.
I think the trouble is that if no-one says anything, every-one thinks that what happens is acceptable.
I have signed the petition previously.
 
i agree alot of people will go and walk around and moan that someone should report them but then they dont do anything. i have contacted the RSPCA 9 times in the past year about this and so have a couple of my friends and old work colleagues which raises the question if people are complaining why are they still not doing anything?
i have been to holmfirth once and left after about half an hour there was some nice ones but some where very poor and i didnt really feel comfortable or safe while there even though it is a small auction centre.
 
The RSPCA dont want to touch the big dealers, they are not easy targets and would be too much work for them. They prefer the easy prosecutions, the little old lady with too many cats. The type that will stand up in court and plea guilty. I know someone that works very closely with the ppl at the top of the RSPCA and the stories I hear about them are horrifying.

Would say though have seen them at a sheep sale, once, but never at a horse sale.
 
i have emailed and phoned everyone i can think of about it but i have not received any helpful responses so now im working on a petition which i can send to the trading standards defra and the RSPCA in a hope they may then take notice. if any one has any suggestions on who else i could contact i would love to hear them and if you too could send an email or get in contact with these organisations it would help alot. x
 
Can I just point out that the RSPCA is a charity, and is not legally obliged to attend anything.
If anything, you should be having a go at the local councils who ARE legally obliged to deal with animal welfare, however, with limited budgets, seem to divert their funds to other areas.
And no, I don't work for and am not married to/know anyone who works for the RSPCA.
 
no but if the RSPCA have received complaints about neglect and animal suffering they have duty of care and if they ignore the complaints they are in effect not doing the job they are ment to do. i know they dont have to visit sales but that is my point they should attend it is animal neglect and they are supposed to be a charity that helps to try and stop neglect. i have contacted councils trading standards and other organisations to but the RSPCA in my opinion should care about these horses suffering and should be looking into the problem and working alongside others to try and help them, not brush it under the carpet and choose not to help. if a doctor chose not to treat you because he was a doctor from a charity would that be ok? no it wouldnt. so why is a horses well-being not important enough for them to actively try to stop the abuse and neglect.
 
I think the RSPCA do care, a lot, about animal welfare, but like any organisation without unlimited funds they have to prioritise, and I'm not saying that they shouldn't attend sales etc, but that they are under no obligation to.
They don't have enough manpower to investigate every report. And if you think they can just turn up and confiscate any animal that they think is being mistreated, then you're misinformed. and even if they could, what are they supposed to do with them then? so many charities homes are full, and there just isn't the space.
Also, the prosecution brought by the RSPCA against James Gray cost £4million. that could have been spent on helping animals, but what choice would you have made?
tuppence's fortune said:
if a doctor chose not to treat you because he was a doctor from a charity would that be ok? no it wouldnt.
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This is totally different - I pay my taxes, I don't have a choice about that, I am entitled to NHS healthcare.
 
I have been to quite a lot of the sales at York and there are quite often York City Council staff there checking passports etc.
Unfortunately the Market owners run the sales to make a profit so, in my opinion, turn a blind eye to most of what is going on.

It used to be a reasonable sale but again, imo, has gone downhill and the same dealers doing the rounds of the northern sales has not helped it.
 
I have been quite a few times and many sales are alot worse at least at york the stabling is good and safe and they dont put up with too much rubbish while the horses are on site.
How horses are handled in car park etc is pretty much beyond their control, what you have to remember is that people are more than happy to buy cheap horses and that sales actually make it possible for some of these horses to end up in good homes.
Dont kid yourself that if there were not these sales that horses wouldnt end up with dodgy dealers or the meat man they would in places where less checks are done and possibly in a less safe enviroment.
The condition and handling of the horses at these sales is not how i would treat a horse but if you drive away many of the sellers you must think about where these horses will end up being sold and in what kind of enviroment.
After having had dealings with trying to get the RSPCA to intervene when horses had been neglected just next door to me i found them worse than useless but i do think there are much more pressing cases than York sales that they should be attending.
 
Sadly, even the horse sales in Ireland are bad. I've never been to York sales, i just got into the horsey world a little over a year ago, and have lived in Ireland 2 years now.

The first sales i encountered were Granard, at the cattle mart. My first experience there was...the only word that comes to mind is, "wow...." Not a good wow either.

You walk in there, horses arriving off cramped cattle trailors, put into the cattle runs and smacked on the hind end until they run blindly ahead, it's all about speed to the people there! Then they go from there, and into some pens, small pens, not big enough for the sheer number of horses crammed into them...And i mean horses, 16hh , barely room to move. Strange horses with other strange horses, in a atmosphere of panic, dread and fear. I've witnessed horses kick each other in the pens, there is NO personal space! We've walked past a number of horses with cuts and grazes on the faces from the pens, walls etc...

Possibly the most stupid thing i've seen was at Granard. The horses are in the runs, get let out one by one. Held in a pen outside of the ring until it's their turn and once the ring is free, that horse is let lose. I remember one night, a 2 year old coloured colt was up for auction. Before him, were a swarm of mares & foals, geldings and barron mares. Now they don't let them out, back into the pens until they gather a few...Anyway, the colt goes into the ring, does it's auction, and straight into the holding pen with all the mares etc. Naturally the colt thinks he's struck it lucky but i couldn't believe the stress from the mares with foals, trying to keep them away from the colt. The pen isn't all that big considering there must have been between 8-12 horses in there, but the mares protecting their foals, and the colt running away, along with everyone else in the kicking mares path! Now in my opinion, that was stupid, it was only asking for a fight! Perhaps the even more shocking thing about it was the reaction of the people at the sale. Everyone laughing, thinking it's a big joke with no concern for the horses welfare...

Sad thing is, in Ireland, that seems to be the story all over the country. Don't get me wrong, there are more proper sales but ones like Granard make you sick. I even remember mares with foals going into auction, not selling and then going back in as singles!

There is absolutely no presense from the ISPCA at these sales. Not even the organisors care, once they get their money! I personally don't like the ISPCA but thats another rant ;) I do, however, wish someone with power would go to sales like that and take action. It can be heart-breaking to see the animals suffer the way they do, just to get a small profit...
 
They do have animal welfare officers present - I saw two of them walking round and checking the horses at the last sale - what sort of ability they have to address issues reported is another matter. Horses, as far as I am aware, have to be fit for sale - but I did see a lame pony go through the sale ring - with a child on it!

I'm afraid I have little faith in the RSPCA, but as has been mentioned above - they are a charity and they do have a finite reserve of money!
 
im not saying the RSPCA have to take away any horses but i think that if some of the dealer and sellers that mis-treat there horses new the rspca would be there they maybe the horses would be in better condition. i understand they have limited funds and they cant go off 1 complaint but i know for a fact they have received at least 15 complaints about york and as many and more for other sales such as holmfirth all it takes for them to go to a house with a skinny dog is 1 call 15 people ringing and emailing and... well you know. im not sla*ing off the rspca because most of the time they do a fantastic job, all im saying is with the help of them and other organisations the people that sell there horses at sales might just think about treating them a little better if they think or no that the rspca will be attending. and im not saying they should go every time but they should at least go.
 
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