Does anyone actually enjoy running a livery yard?

[Starbug]

I am thinking of buying a property next year to run livery, both part and full. My husband works and earns a decent salary so we would have an additional income too which means the livery would not be the only source of income. I have worked on many yards before, have owned several horses of my own and have been on a dozen different yards and have over 25 yrs experience, BHS qualifications etc so I do appreciate what I may be getting into! However, I am really struggling to find anything positive from people who run a livery yard. There are plenty of threads talking about the pitfalls and what a nightmare it is which is somewhat discouraging! I would only look to have up to 6 liveries and it would be an adult only yard. This would be a massive undertaking and a career change for me, I would be buying into a lifestyle and certainly not doing it to make lots of money so I think I would be going into it with my eyes open but I would love to hear some positive stories from people who own or run a yard

Thanks

 

[Shay]

Sorry don't own a yard but I didn't want to read and run.

People don't tend to post about yards they are happy on - which is at least partly if not mainly why all the thread are about problems. The yard we're on is happy, the liveries friendly and the YO the right mix between managing and supportive. It can - and does - happen.

Any job working with people - let alone people and animals - is going to require a fair level of people skills and patience. Set fair rules, keep them fairly. And if you get a trouble maker get rid of them. You might struggle for liveries to begin with but you will very quickly build a faithful core who will make your life so much easier!

 

[irishdraft]

I have done what you describe with the same amount of experience etc I have had a few lovely liveries & also some awful ones. I am in an area where it is mainly diy although I was lucky enough to have had a couple of part liveries & these were definitely the best. We got fed up with the constant coming & going from 5am up to 11pm at night you definitely need to be a people person,needless to say I don't do livery anymore !!

 

[popsdosh]

Having been there done that!
I the biggest and over riding rule is never become friends with your liveries ! Always keep it as a business arrangement.

 

[Clodagh]

I the biggest and over riding rule is never become friends with your liveries ! Always keep it as a business arrangement.

This, a million times over! I know 3 livery yard owners, one hates it in winter but loves it in summer (fair enough) but is friends with all her liveries who completely tsake the mick out of her good nature. Second one, a huge yard, likes it but does work like a dog - mind you had about 50 horses DIY and full - and another run very professionally with a YM and owner doesn't get involved, no mates rates and he likes it.

 

[Clare85]

I've always been diy on small private yards, but I did share a horse once on a slightly bigger full and part livery yard. The YO seemed to love her job, there were only 11 horses, so not big, but she is sole charge so no help either. She ensures a great atmosphere - friendly and supportive - and doesn't stand for any nonsense. I think the point re. not becoming too close to your liveries is an important one, to ensure that everyone is treated the same, and I think you need to get the balance right between being approachable but not allowing yourself to be walked all over.

 

[be positive]

I have a small yard with around 6 liveries, I enjoy it most of the time, winter being the worst, my liveries are part or assisted, I could not cope with full DIYs having been messed about by most in the past, from the phone calls at 4pm to ask if I could do their horse that day to the last one that didn't muck out the barn I let her have, as a favour mid winter when she was desperate, for a whole month then left without clearing it, and various other issues over the years.
I feed, turnout and bring in for the 1 assisted livery and the others get all the basics done as well, I provide hay/ haylage and straw as well as a basic feed, if they want anything different they can provide it.

I allow turnout pretty much every day in the winter, being in control means I can limit the hours they spend outside which does help save the land it would not cope with them all going out from 6am-6pm but is fine with a shorter day, normally 8ish - 3/4pm, in summer they can be out 24/7, they are all in pairs or small groups.

If I were starting out I would only take part livery, or full, but give a reduction in summer and let them be responsible for most of the daily care, I still get in for farrier/ vet as most people work and it really helps if they don't have to take time off or fit visits in at weekends, have set hours for owners to come and go, if you are living there, many owners forget that their hobby is your job and do not consider that you need time to yourself at the end of the day just as they are turning up to enjoy their horsey time, unless it is an emergency you "finish" at a set time, I always do a late check but do not always want to be hanging about once my work is done for the day.

 

[Auslander]

Having been there done that!
I the biggest and over riding rule is never become friends with your liveries ! Always keep it as a business arrangement.

I've totally broken that rule! My yard is also my home, and I have a small number of liveries (3) who are all here on a full grass livery basis. I consider all the owners to be friends, and I'm always happy to see them arrive. I have had a few blips along the way with people, but the current crew are fab. I am very selective about who I take on though!

 

[Cortez]

I have run a livery yard, and would never, ever do so again. I found it a mixture of torture and pure slavery. I cannot see how you could make any sort of a living from just 6 liveries, unless you were doing it purely for the pleasure (none, in my case) or to help cover the costs of running your own horse. But then, I'm not a people person. At all

 

[Goldenstar]

It's years since I ran a livery and I have several friends who do .
I think it can be a nightmare and it can be a great lifestyle choice .
As you will being run a small yard then I think it's important that you think through the work load and remember that you need back up plans for you being ill or injured which can cause havoc on small yards.
Be friendly but not too friendly with the clients always remember they are clients .
Be clear about what's being provided .
So if you tell people all year turnout you must mean that .
Be realistic with your self about costs. It costs a lot to maintain a yard and more when horses are transient and unless you keep the place fairly perfect yourself you can't expect other to care for it carefully and this a harder thing to mange than you might think .
When I was running a livery bedding was a major area where you could get costings wrong be careful about things like that .
Too many small liveries are subsisting their clients hobbies .
Never be drawn into arguments between adult women who ought to know better .
Be prepared to say this is how it is and stand by that.
A big decision is whether you do individual or group turnout I totally understand why yards do single turnout as a lot of the flash points between people are around turnout although I think it's awful for the horses .
And finally I would PM Wagtail who posts on here ( although she's not been on as much lately ) she runs exactly the sort of yard you as thinking of she would be great to talk to.
Good luck with it , but looking out my window this morning at the waterlogged land through rain coming down sideways for the third day running it's certainly not an easy way to make a living .

 

[Wagtail]

Yes, I enjoy it, but that's not to say that it doesn't have its downside. In the past I have had as many as seven liveries plus my own horses. I don't earn enough to pay someone and so all of the work is done by me. I took the decision to downsize to a maximum of four liveries just over a year ago. A couple of my liveries were leaving due to pregnancy and relocating and so I didn't replace them. Then another left to go to university. Now I don't know how I ever managed to single-handedly provide a part livery service to eight or nine horses because I am still run off my feet! It honestly doesn't make any money except to pay for all my own horsey costs and run the landrover and trailer, even though on paper it should. There are just so many hidden costs. Luckily, my husband brings in a good salary.

My biggest regret is not having enough time to really enjoy my own horses. I want to compete again (something I have not done since opening the livery yard), but cannot foresee how I can do that and provide the livery service. I can't leave the yard for more than a couple of hours in the winter, it is so full on. So this should be considered.

I have been blessed with the most amazing, lovely liveries for most of the time I have run the yard and yes, I have become friends with them; it's very hard not to when they instigate the friendship. I tend to keep it business-like if I can, but only a couple have stayed that way. I think a yard owner should take their cue from the liveries in that respect because they are the client and they should dictate the kind of relationship they want. Obviously not take the piss though! I have stayed in touch and on a friends basis with every livery who has left except for one. This livery was with me many years but it was a constant battle trying to obtain their monthly livery money, and the horse was often not well treated (left for weeks without riding and then hammered over jumps for two hours, obvious lameness ignored or not seen that kind of thing) and I was constantly having to step in. But that was the only one in ten years where I had a problem. I still worry about the horse TBH but nothing I can do about that.

 

[Holliehope]

If your lucky enough to get amazing liveries then it can be fun but most of the time they just seem to want to moan whatever there never bloody happy
We bend over backwards for out liveries 28 of them but you just can't keep them all happy
For example they wanted daily winter turnout so we organised it we turn them all out 10 -2 they moan it's not long enough but believe me after a few hours they all want to come in and now there moaning there horses are to muddy and it takes them to long to groom
It can be pouring with rain and gale force wind if we don't turn them out they will kick up so there poor ponies stand depressed in the field screaming at the staff to get them in
They wanted hayledge so we got them hayledge they now moan there horse eats it to fast
So now I come out at 11 at night to give them all more hayledge that I throw away come morning lol
It's a nightmare
All in all we do not make a profit and I often wonder is it worth it
Next livery yard I do will be kids and ponies much easier

 

[Dubsie]

I've a few friends run/have run livery yards. I'd say the happiest runs a full retirement livery with all the facilities on hand, so doesn't need to see a lot of the owners = no yard politics. The second happiest, again excellent facilities and good grazing lets it out as a whole, and thus only has 1 person to deal with. The unhappiest are IMO the ones where they've had the worst /smallest/most overstocked facilities to contend with - small stables, small fields, poor grazing, miles of mud to walk through to put horses out etc etc. Always arguments about that sort of thing, leads to poor relations between liveries. However agree with Holliehope kids and ponies do seem easier -perhaps the expectation level isn't so high/ponies more adaptable to lesser conditions? I think I'd look to buy a well equipped yard with more than adequate grazing that drains well, then you can afford to charge well and effectively dictate who you take on as livery, and thus hopefully have the less conflicts/issues from the owners?

 

[jenz87]

We used to love it. But now weve stopped and i would never go back.
People take advantage and there are so many other yards around to keep prices down that you end up working all day every day for pennies. I dont expect min wage for this, but when you are getting probably pennies per hour, or even loosing money, what is the point....?

 

[skint1]

Would it be cheaper to run it as DIY?

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

We moved here in 1992 (we live on site) and have only ever had room for just one DIY livery, which is a huge advantage in that one is fine, and manageable, and works well, whereas with two or more that's when it seems there is potential for conflict.

In all that time, we've only ever had one really bad egg, who thankfully left after a month (after going away for the weekend without telling me and leaving her pony shut in with no food or water); plus one who was paying only for DIY livery (which was all that was ever offered) but was increasingly expecting Yours Truly to run around and do hers for her! (she left eventually).

I've thoroughly enjoyed it! Have met some wonderful people who are now longlife friends, and have encountered some wonderful horses, some of who are no sadly no longer with us and leave a hole in everyone's hearts Their memories and all the enjoyment their owners had, are soooo precious.

Our current livery has been here for five years and is a real gem and she and her children are just growing up with their ponies here (eldest now moving onto horses!), which is so lovely to see! We have lived with each others' successes, sorrows, and losses.

No, you won't ever make a fortune running a yard, not if you're a small-time concern, but you WILL hopefully meet some lovely people, super horses, and have a lot of fun! like we have.

 

[Starbug]

Thank you very much for all of your replies! Some interesting points made, particularly about not getting overly friendly with your clients. I am very much a people person so I would need to be careful about not getting too pally with people as I can see how this could potentially lead to problems. Can I just ask, for those of you that say you do not make a profit, do you mean you don't make enough to pay yourself a salary? Does your livery pay any of your mortgage or are you reliant on husbands salary? My thought was to have 6 liveries on full as I think I could manage that number on my own. I would not look to hire any staff, at least not in the short term. I am also working on an acre per horse in terms of turnout, is that generous or an absolute necessity? I have been on a yard where 12 horses were kept with little over an acre of turnout, needless to say I didn't stay there long. I certainly don't want to short change people (or horses) on turnout but obviously property prices are going to vary massively depending on the acreage

 

[Wagtail]

Would it be cheaper to run it as DIY?

No. Many DIY yards run at a loss. You have to pay out just as much in business rates for DIY per stable. You have the same electric, water and maintenance costs. Livery clients are there at least twice as often and 3 times as long. Some DIY clients neglect their horses and other liveries or YO ends up stepping in and feeding etc. Although I was a DIY client myself many years ago, and if I ever had to sell up, I would be again, I would never have DIY clients on my yard for the above reasons.

 

[Wagtail]

The only way to make money out of DIY is to have tens of them and grow all your own hay and bedding which you then sell to your liveries. Also, have the strength of mind not to get involved if things are not done to your standards, and not care or get involved when liveries don't turn up to do their horses until after lunch and horse has been stood in muck with no water or hay until that time. I know there are many lovely DIY clients, but unfortunately that small minority that are not, spoil it for the rest and for the YO.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I know of a yard with 12 stables and 12 acres, they do year round daily turnout but it's simply nowhere near enough land. The paddocks, which are beautifully fenced individual or double ones, get absolutely hammered.

ETA, this is in response to the OP asking if an acre per horse is enough land.

 

[Cortez]

Thank you very much for all of your replies! Some interesting points made, particularly about not getting overly friendly with your clients. I am very much a people person so I would need to be careful about not getting too pally with people as I can see how this could potentially lead to problems. Can I just ask, for those of you that say you do not make a profit, do you mean you don't make enough to pay yourself a salary? Does your livery pay any of your mortgage or are you reliant on husbands salary? My thought was to have 6 liveries on full as I think I could manage that number on my own. I would not look to hire any staff, at least not in the short term. I am also working on an acre per horse in terms of turnout, is that generous or an absolute necessity? I have been on a yard where 12 horses were kept with little over an acre of turnout, needless to say I didn't stay there long. I certainly don't want to short change people (or horses) on turnout but obviously property prices are going to vary massively depending on the acreage

Re grazing acreages: depending on the quality of your land, I would allow 2 acres for the first horse and an acre per horse after that. So for 6 horses I would need 7 acres.

Just a question: Why on earth would anyone run a business that required relentless physical labour and near 24/7 attendance without a break for nothing/break even, or possibly at a loss? If that is what is occurring, and I know it often does, then it is not a business.

 

[Wagtail]

Thank you very much for all of your replies! Some interesting points made, particularly about not getting overly friendly with your clients. I am very much a people person so I would need to be careful about not getting too pally with people as I can see how this could potentially lead to problems. Can I just ask, for those of you that say you do not make a profit, do you mean you don't make enough to pay yourself a salary? Does your livery pay any of your mortgage or are you reliant on husbands salary? My thought was to have 6 liveries on full as I think I could manage that number on my own. I would not look to hire any staff, at least not in the short term. I am also working on an acre per horse in terms of turnout, is that generous or an absolute necessity? I have been on a yard where 12 horses were kept with little over an acre of turnout, needless to say I didn't stay there long. I certainly don't want to short change people (or horses) on turnout but obviously property prices are going to vary massively depending on the acreage

I have had good years and bad financially. Put it this way, even in the best years, I have never made enough money to pay any tax. The largest profit in one year was around £4k I think. Several years I have made a loss. Seriously. For example when I have had to re-surface the 25x60m arena and the sand turnout, buy jumps, replace gates, repair machinery etc.

 

[Makemineacob]

I would never do it again, I've had two yards in the past few years and only had one decent livery. I am very choosy about who I choose but people do change sadly. I had three liveries on (with four horses) and became totally immersed in providing above and beyond service (hard not to treat all the horses as you treat your own), it is extremely difficult not being "on call" 24/7 when you get texts late at night like "Forgot to give my horse blah blah", then trudging to the yard to deal. People constantly turning up (usually just as you have sat down to finally eat your dinner) and wanting you to come out and spend time with them! (and I am a people person!). It takes over your whole life (and the lives of anyone else horsey or non horsey that live with you). I would never run a yard again.

 

[Starbug]

Do you mind if I send you a message Wagtail, to get some more info on set up and running costs?

 

[Goldenstar]

How are you going to mange doing six horses to a good standard seven days a week all year .
If by full livery you mean what I mean which the owners just turns up ride when it suits them and you do everything else that's a minimum if three hours riding day assuming you can ride and lead if no turns up to ride and you can guarantee they won't when the weather is bad .
You are giving yourself a big big job .
Now you could look after six and do no exercising but it still would ghastly slog on your own all winter without provision for time off and cover if you a virus or things like that my OH would have had a wobbler if I had suggested it when younger .
You need to some costings on what you think you can bed and feed a horse to a reasonable standard on then work out the cost of maintaining a yard .
Next work the difference in cost a yard with six stables and seven or eight acres and the size of house you would buy and the cost of a house strictly speaking your business should bear the cost of this borrowing .
Then research what price livery is on offer at in your area and see if you can make a profit .
I don't want to rain on your parade but if you are well qualified and experienced I think you would have a better quality of life working for higher end clients as a free lance .

 

[ihatework]

Starbug, a smallish acreage and a few boxes will barely have you break even.
Add to that don't underestimate how much time 6 full liveries will take up - we can be a picky bunch, even the nice sane ones ��
You WILL need cover at times, are you seriously suggesting you are working 24/7/365?? And trust me, from what I have experienced as a livery on we'll run yards finding reliable grooms can be a nightmare

 

[Wagtail]

Do you mind if I send you a message Wagtail, to get some more info on set up and running costs?

No problem. I think you need to make a minimum of ten posts though before being able to PM.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

As per other YO's, I no longer do any liveries.
However, THE best liveries are backing,schooling or producing liveries Especially the latter and had them from late 80's through to the 'turn of the century'
Means you don't get people rocking up except by arrangement, bills actually cover what is being done, YO gets to sort out stables, farrier, vet, work, bedding & feeding within good reason, so very like full livery, but without on site owners

 

[Wagtail]

I have worked every single day 365 a year for ten and a half years. The only time I ever had off was one Christmas seven years ago when I got pneumonia and pluresy. Luckily as it was the holidays my teenaged sons and husband mucked out and I also paid one of my part liveries too. I have not had a single day or weekend off and obviously no holidays. I can't visit friends or family. My poor husband has to go alone or with the boys. I have worked through a shoulder operation and tendon injury, still doing everything by myself. My latest finger injury means I cannot ride at present, although I still lunge and long rein. I booked my shoulder op for the summer because I knew I wouldn't be able to muck out. But I still had to get horses in and out and after 3 days was wheeling a wheelbarrow much to my surgeon's dismay.

 

[Goldenstar]

Don't forget business rates, small business rate relief is being phased out .