Does anyone have a clever idea?

[EternalVetBills]

Going to try and keep this as brief as possible!

My mums little pony is massively overweight (7/8 out of 10), and I am beginning to get seriously worried about him.

Unfortunately exercise is really limited for a number of reasons, the main one being that he is the only companion my retired mare will accept. She has extreme separation anxiety and will not be left on her own. I have had multiple different experts out to her and we have given it plenty of time (literally years), but she just will not cope without him. She is happy enough in the field if she either has company next to her or another horse (preferably a gelding) in the field with her, but in her stable she will easily either take down walls/doors or seriously injure herself and anyone that tries to help her, or both sometimes! I can't even take him to the hose, which is within her sight and less than 10 metres from the stable, without her kicking off. I have to take them both and tie her up down there. I will say she is more than happy to leave him, always strode out on hacks, was never nappy, and will go to the tap, school, cross ties, anywhere but a stable happily on her own, BUT I have to constantly be in her sight. If Dijon (companion/emotional support pony) isn't there, I then become the crutch and the separation anxiety transfers onto me. Only me though, she will not go anywhere without Dijon without me. My mum can do some stuff with her, but there's generally a time limit of around 10-15 minutes before she wants back with either me or Dijon. I should also add at this point that when in a stable without the emotional support pony, she will not even accept me as her crutch, he HAS to be there or all hell breaks loose.

Here's where we run into some problems. When she was in work everything was fine, I used to take Dijon with me ride and lead on hacks, or mum would ride him herself whilst I was doing something with Grace (retired mare) and that was fine because she wouldn't know he'd gone out (although there where times when I had to walk round the school in circles for half an hour because mum and Dijon had gone for longer than expected and I couldn't take Grace back to the yard !). Now that she's retired we're really struggling to work Dijon and the weight is just piling on!

I can take her for hands walks but she really can't manage very far at all, and my mum is now getting arthritic and really struggles to either ride or keep up on a hand walk. So I end up with two arthritic old women who falter after about 15 minutes, and neither can really stride out so it's not great exercise at all. I've thought about parking mum somewhere with Grace and taking Dijon for a bigger, faster walk where Grace can still see him, but I really worry about her hurting mum if she gets wound up and, given how she is if I take him to the tap, this is a very real possibility. I can lunge him but this means I need to have someone come down to the school with me to hold Grace as there's nowhere I can tie her down there. This is fine sometimes as mum will come down to the school and hold Grace for me whilst I lunge, but she works long hours and this realistically isn't feasible anymore than 2x per week. Due to work commitments I am up early in the mornings and late in the evenings, so I really struggle to find anyone else to come and hold Grace for me.

I mentioned earlier that she's okay in the field, with company, and she is. The problem being there are no other horses that are available to go out with her, so I have to rely on company in the field next door. I only have one field bordering mine, and Grace is really happy with just them as company, but they don't get turned out until gone 10 in the mornings (for multiple reasons I am not going to go down the route of asking if I can turn them out earlier myself). Evenings would be a possibility as they do tend to stay out quite late, but the issue here is that, no matter how many times I ask the lady to let me know when she's going down to get in so I can run down with Dijon, or how clear I make it that Grace CANNOT be left on her own down there, she still just goes and gets horses in and leaves Grace in a frothing mess. I do understand as I also would hate to be beholden to someone else's horse, but I just had to add it as it explains why I can't exercise Dijon with Grace in the field. Unfortunately getting a third myself just isn't on the cards right now, although it would solve many problems!

I keep him in as much as possible, but Grace is riddled with arthritis so needs to be out as much as possible. When out, they're on a track system with haynets that only Grace can reach, and I know it is only Grace that has it because the fields are all on camera. I can't section him off into a starvation paddock because Grace will go through any and all fencing to get to him, and I do genuinely mean all. She has gone through post and rail with 4 strands of mains electrified wire either side, 5 bars gates, and once came through a stone wall to get to him. I don't know why being able to see but not get to him is different than him not being there at all, but it obviously is!

I have tried sharers in the past and I just hang in the field with Grace whilst Dijon is out. The issue is that not matter how clear I make it, no one ever seems to understand, or take seriously, the severity of her behaviour. I've told sharers, hack wherever you want, but DO NOT go on the two bridleways that she can see from the field. Four times, with three different sharers this has happened and I am left trying not to A, get killed, or B, let Grace kill herself, for the 15 minutes it takes for them to get back round to the field. I've also had two bring Dijon in without Grace, BIG no no, she can leave him to go to the field, but he can't come in without her, or worse, one tried to bring her in and put her in her stable then go back for the pony. Grace can be genuinely dangerous to herself and others when she get stressed about being on her own, so for that reason sharers are another no go as I just cannot trust them or Grace not to cause a serious accident.

I am absolutely at my wits end! I have a pony that desperately needs exercise and an old bag that just won't let me do it! I have honestly thought about having her PTS because I just don't think this is fair on Dijon anymore, but I just can't bring myself to do it. As much as this post probably makes her sound like a nightmare, she is really sweet just can't be left alone. Does anyone have any brilliant ideas on what I could do? I've thought about putting her on retirement livery but I just can't find anywhere suitable. Come January I won't have this problem as I will have the finances to buy my own place and I have already been in touch a few charities to get her some more needy Thoroughbred friends that she can live out with, but obviously I can't say to Dijon "don't get laminitis just yet, come next year we can do some exercise."! We've got our weigh bridge lady coming to do our yearly weigh ins next month and I am genuinely embarrassed and ashamed at the state of our poor little pony

Not really sure there was much point to this, just needed a vent and maybe hope that someone has a brilliant idea? Thanks if you made it this far!

 

[SEL]

I have such a huge amount of sympathy as I try very hard not to look at my expanding appaloosa - I can't believe how much the grass is causing problems this year

Is he muzzled? That might be a starting point

Is there a field next to yours where he could be ridden in her eyeline or is that worse?

 

[rabatsa]

Long rein the pony in the field with the mare. You should be able to work him in trot round you but steer him about round the mare so that she is not getting tangled up in a lunge line.

 

[EternalVetBills]

I have such a huge amount of sympathy as I try very hard not to look at my expanding appaloosa - I can't believe how much the grass is causing problems this year

Is he muzzled? That might be a starting point

Is there a field next to yours where he could be ridden in her eyeline or is that worse?

It's been so bad this year hasn't it?

Yes he's muzzled when out, but do think I should add, he isn't your usual greedy pony. He gets 4 kilos of soaked hay overnight and I can see on the cameras that he is very slow careful about how he eats it, it lasts him from around 7/8 until 4 in the morning. When he's out aswell he isn't greedy gobbling the grass, he will pick at the hedges, snuffle in the dirt, and pick through the straw I put out, for at least 70% of his time out. So I don't think it's volume issue, he's always needed exercise to stay trim.

I think she's okay with him in the next door field for half an hour while I lunge, the problem at the moment is the ground. It's so hard and rutted here that I think I may well cause lami just from the concussion! I had a very narrow window this year where it was okay to lunge on, it went from soup to rock in about a week!

 

[EternalVetBills]

Long rein the pony in the field with the mare. You should be able to work him in trot round you but steer him about round the mare so that she is not getting tangled up in a lunge line.

Unfortunately the field is just too hard at the moment for him to do anymore than walk round it. I've tried leading her with me whilst I long rein him in the school, but her legs just can't cope doing any long periods of work anymore and we're not allowed to have them loose in the school.

ETA: Pony can also drive, and I have tried leading her off the back while mum drives him, but she really just can't keep up anymore.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

There might be someone willing to give you a companion but still contibute to costs, would that be an option? All you can do is ask and you might get lucky with someone looking for that arrangement

 

[EternalVetBills]

There might be someone willing to give you a companion but still contibute to costs, would that be an option? All you can do is ask and you might get lucky with someone looking for that arrangement

That would be absolutely ideal as I really wouldn't mind doing another, I just can't finance it at the moment. I feel really cheeky putting an ad like that out though 'give me your horse, but still pay for everything, and you can't do a jot with it without telling me first because I need to be there for my neurotic horse' . Maybe I'm just phrasing it badly

 

[Dexter]

Unfortunately the field is just too hard at the moment for him to do anymore than walk round it. I've tried leading her with me whilst I long rein him in the school, but her legs just can't cope doing any long periods of work anymore and we're not allowed to have them loose in the school.

ETA: Pony can also drive, and I have tried leading her off the back while mum drives him, but she really just can't keep up anymore.

I think you need to move past that or this pony will end up dead of laminitis. You need a vet to find out why he is so fat when he's muzzled and on soaked hay. There are medications that can help. Then you need to work him hard. Walking does nothing to get weight off. They need to be trotting for extended periods and cantering till they are blowing. Obviously, you need to build up to that, but he needs to be working and if the field is the only option, then that's what you use.

 

[EternalVetBills]

I think you need to move past that or this pony will end up dead of laminitis. You need a vet to find out why he is so fat when he's muzzled and on soaked hay. There are medications that can help. Then you need to work him hard. Walking does nothing to get weight off. They need to be trotting for extended periods and cantering till they are blowing. Obviously, you need to build up to that, but he needs to be working and if the field is the only option, then that's what you use.

He does have regular visits from our vet. We cannot find anything metabolically wrong with him. He also has joint issues himself which makes lunging on an unsuitable surface a no go. I will ask my vet if she feels the field would be okay to use, but she has advised against extended periods of trotting him on roads and hard surfaces in the past, hence my reluctance.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

You're essentially offering to provide full retirement livery... that is a thing that exists that people pay for and not that cheeky I don't think.
I can't tell from your post if you have your own place or are on a livery yard, but if you have your own place and they then only have to pay for hay/farrier/feed etc then it would be cheaper than retirement. Sounds like you have good grass/turnout too so ideal for an oldie who might also have arthritis and matches management requirements with your mare.. It's all down to phrasing.

 

[EternalVetBills]

You're essentially offering to provide full retirement livery... that is a thing that exists that people pay for and not that cheeky I don't think.
I can't tell from your post if you have your own place or are on a livery yard, but if you have your own place and they then only have to pay for hay/farrier/feed etc then it would be cheaper than retirement. Sounds like you have good grass/turnout too so ideal for an oldie who might also have arthritis and matches management requirements with your mare.. It's all down to phrasing.

When you put it like that it does sound less cheeky.

I unfortunately am on a livery yard, but am friendly with the owner so it would be much cheaper livery than you would otherwise get.

I will pop an advert out on some local groups. It can't hurt to ask can it

 

[SpotsandBays]

I would suggest exercise in the field also - as much as you can. I appreciate the ground is pretty solid in most places, but walk work is still work! Just make sure it’s a nice purposeful pace and not a bimble. Inhand polework is good too. Could you add poles in the field/track?
Also could you make the overall grazing area smaller, and just provide your mare with more hay that the little one can’t get at?

 

[EternalVetBills]

I would suggest exercise in the field also - as much as you can. I appreciate the ground is pretty solid in most places, but walk work is still work! Just make sure it’s a nice purposeful pace and not a bimble. Inhand polework is good too. Could you add poles in the field/track?
Also could you make the overall grazing area smaller, and just provide your mare with more hay that the little one can’t get at?

The pole work is a really good idea! He loves stuff like that.
I've already got quite a few branches and things scattered about the track because my physio recommended them for Grace. I've got a big railway sleeper down one side which he really has to heave himself over as he is so diddy, so maybe a few more of them might be a plan.

The width of the track I am slightly iffy on making smaller, because even though she loves him with every inch of her being and can't be without him, for the majority of the time Grace will not let Dijon even remotely close to her without having a paddy . I feel sorry for the wee pony, I really do. She will wander up to him to groom and play a couple of times, but other than that, he's to stay away. So I would worry about him getting stuck in a corner with her somewhere if it was any narrower. It's currently just wide enough for me to get my car down, so not super narrow, but not massive either

 

[dottylottie]

can you tie grace up inside the arena with you whilst you lunge him? or alternatively, maybe take him for a good march around the track and then she has the option to dawdle along behind?

 

[poiuytrewq]

That would be absolutely ideal as I really wouldn't mind doing another, I just can't finance it at the moment. I feel really cheeky putting an ad like that out though 'give me your horse, but still pay for everything, and you can't do a jot with it without telling me first because I need to be there for my neurotic horse' . Maybe I'm just phrasing it badly

look at it another way. You’re not saying give me your horse but still pay, you’re offering someone a fabulous opportunity for full retirement livery at cost.

 

[EternalVetBills]

can you tie grace up inside the arena with you whilst you lunge him? or alternatively, maybe take him for a good march around the track and then she has the option to dawdle along behind?

Unfortunately tying up in the school isn't doable, she has to be facing him and able to see him. She has pulled a rail off before when he went out of her eyeline!

I don't know why I didn't think of walking around the field until you guys mentioned it! In my head because I can't lunge in there at the moment, I couldn't do anything in there, but yes I will start taking him for marches around the field. I might take him round with me whilst I poo pick too.

 

[Squeak]

Thinking a bit outside the box but what would she do if you left her loose in the school (maybe with some hay or something if you're allowed) while you exercise Dijon? Would she follow you around or would she just mooch around happy that she can see him and so you could work as needed but make sure you don't crash in to her?

I do really feel for you it sounds a stressful situation.

 

[EternalVetBills]

Thinking a bit outside the box but what would she do if you left her loose in the school (maybe with some hay or something if you're allowed) while you exercise Dijon? Would she follow you around or would she just mooch around happy that she can see him and so you could work as needed but make sure you don't crash in to her?

I do really feel for you it sounds a stressful situation.

I think that would work really, really well, but we're not allowed to have them loose in the outdoor. I've done it in the indoor because they can be loose in there, and it works brilliantly but the surface is abysmal and everytime I do anymore more than walk him in there he slips around and really struggles to keep his feet under him. Grace is retired because I kept going with her in a different slippery school and she fell and fractured some vertebrae, so I really wouldn't want to risk another one on a slippery surface.

 

[Squeak]

I think that would work really, really well, but we're not allowed to have them loose in the outdoor. I've done it in the indoor because they can be loose in there, and it works brilliantly but the surface is abysmal and everytime I do anymore more than walk him in there he slips around and really struggles to keep his feet under him. Grace is retired because I kept going with her in a different slippery school and she fell and fractured some vertebrae, so I really wouldn't want to risk another one on a slippery surface.

What a pain. Is there any chance you think you could get special permission if you say you'll stop straight away if she's getting excited and running around? You don't ask you don't get and all that?

Or how about a yard move? Could you find a yard where they do herd turnout so that there are a few horses turned out with her and so you could take Dijon out? I'm guessing she wouldn't be ok turned out long term without Dijon? Otherwise if she would be could you send her to retirement livery where she lives in a large herd where they rarely take any of them away or out the field?

Or just to a yard where they would allow you to have her loose in the school when you ride?

 

[pistolpete]

Horses! Nothing to add but really feel your pain as my retired Highland is field bound for one reason and another. It’s a real struggle. The hardy ones cause as much worry as the poor doers!

 

[Widgeon]

You need a vet to find out why he is so fat when he's muzzled and on soaked hay. There are medications that can help.

Agreed. My (ridden) cob was somewhat similar - ranging from plump to downright fat despite plenty of work and very restricted food. Turns out he has EMS, probably had for a while, and his insulin was far too high, so he just wasn't regulating normally. I achieved a lot with diet and exercise but that was never going to fix the underlying problem; fortunately medication seems to be sorting it out.

I would definitely have a word with your vet about the possibility of EMS or cushings. No point fighting a losing battle without knowing what's going on.

 

[poiuytrewq]

What a pain. Is there any chance you think you could get special permission if you say you'll stop straight away if she's getting excited and running around? You don't ask you don't get and all that?

Or how about a yard move? Could you find a yard where they do herd turnout so that there are a few horses turned out with her and so you could take Dijon out? I'm guessing she wouldn't be ok turned out long term without Dijon? Otherwise if she would be could you send her to retirement livery where she lives in a large herd where they rarely take any of them away or out the field?

Or just to a yard where they would allow you to have her loose in the school when you ride?

Might be worth a shot? Pull on the heart strings ?

 

[Flowerofthefen]

When you put it like that it does sound less cheeky.

I unfortunately am on a livery yard, but am friendly with the owner so it would be much cheaper livery than you would otherwise get.

I will pop an advert out on some local groups. It can't hurt to ask can it

If your on livery isn't there another oldie already there that could be put in your field short term?

 

[EternalVetBills]

What a pain. Is there any chance you think you could get special permission if you say you'll stop straight away if she's getting excited and running around? You don't ask you don't get and all that?

Or how about a yard move? Could you find a yard where they do herd turnout so that there are a few horses turned out with her and so you could take Dijon out? I'm guessing she wouldn't be ok turned out long term without Dijon? Otherwise if she would be could you send her to retirement livery where she lives in a large herd where they rarely take any of them away or out the field?

Or just to a yard where they would allow you to have her loose in the school when you ride?

I have asked in the past and it was unfortunately a no, but I might ask again and see what she says.

Herd turnout really doesn't work for her, we have the option of it here but chose not to because of how difficult she can be. If someone gets a horse in, she would HAVE to come in with it, even if there are others still out. Then when she does come in, if the pony isn't in his stable, all hell breaks loose. I really need to avoid any situations where there's a third party involved I think, because they just never seem to understand quite how bad it is until Grace actually does something, and then I get "oh, I didn't realise she was that bad"

If your on livery isn't there another oldie already there that could be put in your field short term?

There is one lovely lady who did offer her old boy up as Grace babysitter, and I would whole heartedly trust her to be sympathetic to Grace and her drama. She was with me 3 years ago when one of my early attempts at fixing the separation anxiety ended with Grace puncturing an artery and bleeding out over the yard! So she definitely would be a perfect option, unfortunately she's got her boy out in the gelding herd at the moment and one of the other ladies in that field has made it very clear that she doesn't want horses going into a different field and then rejoining the herd. For various reasons neither me or potential babysitter owner would want it to be a permanent move into my field, so it would mean that I would have to borrow him whilst I did Dijon and then post babysitter back afterwards, which the other lady in the field isn't going to like.

Wondering why I bother with it all right now as I I'm currently sat on my bed soaking my foot because, even though I go to all this stress and trouble trying to keep him healthy, Dijon saw fit to stand on my foot and rip my big toenail clean off whilst I was clipping him this morning ! And Grace has sliced her leg open (again) and bitten through her tongue because, in my brief moment of pain and not thinking straight, I took the pony out of sight! Luckily I like seeing my vet! Why do I even bother