Does anyone have an Albion Selecta saddle?

[Blizzard]

Im thinking of buying a used one from ebay and was wondering what they are like, I know you can change the knee blocks, dressage, jumping etc so that realy appeals to me.

also regarding fit, my horse is a narrow/medium in Bates/Wintec, are the Albion saddles true to size?

Thanks

 

[lillie07]

I have always found Albions come up fairly wide. Best thing to do is get a measurement between d's and compare to your current saddle.

 

[Blizzard]

He doesnt have ono unfortunately, new horse, hasnt worked for 6 months, i do have a wintec gullet gauge though and he is a narrow/medium in those saddles.

ho hum may just get saddler out, I just dont want to spend a fortune on a saddle when he is going to change shape.

May buy a wintec one for now then.

 

[Tierra]

Tough call given he'll change shape :/

Ive never gotten on very well with the albion saddles. I think they're beautifully made but Ive never had one really fit any of my horses even including one made to measure from Albions recommended "gold" level master saddler. I also never found them particularly comfortable and although this is secondary for me to the fit of the saddle for the horse, i'd still prefer something comfy

Equally, though I like the concept of the wintec's / bates saddles with the changeable gullets... you can only alter the width of the saddle at the front and thats really only half the picture.

I know albion now do an adjustable tree saddle (genesis tree) and I considered it briefly when I got my new horse. It has to be altered by a saddler but at least still gives more flexibility.

Personally, I opted for a wow saddle. My schoolmaster had been out of work when I got him with a lot of muscle wastage. He was initially ridden in a narrow fit Amerigo while I weighed up my options. In the end, I went for the wow and he's now wider through the head plate than the MW albions and the actual gullet width on his wow is huge compared to the same albion.

They ARE expensive but infinitly adjustable and you can buy the different flaps just as with the albion selecta. Plus the people at first thought are fabulous! They said my horse was the most difficult saddle they'd ever had to fit (he's very very very short coupled) and they've been happy to spend literally hours on the phone or over email with me discussing my thoughts on it when ive wanted things tweaking.. Really cant recommend them enough.

 

[Blizzard]

Thank so much for that detailed post Tierra.

Yes this is the problem because he is going to change shape I dont want to out and buy a brand new saddle that wont fit him after a few months, but at the same time like you said only the gullet of the wintecs can be adjusted.
I had a bates and wintec for my mare, the gullet on the wintec fit her fine but the saddle didnt actually fit, practically none of the panel was touching her back, not good, whereas the bates fit her fine.

I only thought Albion because when Ive been trying him out he has been in an Albion dressage saddle, which cant come with him unfortunately but does fit him well. However like you said Tierra i didnt find it very confortable but then I thought oh well, gel seat saver, as long as the horse is happy!

To be honest I dont actually know anything about WOW saddles! (if you can give me some info would really appreciate it!)

Like your horse mine has a lot of muscle wastage and he has put on weight and condition in just a few weeks so I know by summer he will be a totally different shape,

I dont mind paying a lot for a saddle that is going to fit him thoughout hi shape changing and afterwards, I would rather do that than go through 4 other saddles in the meantime.

 

[Tierra]

The wow saddles are made by the company that originally designed the flair air bag system. What they basically created was a completly modular saddle. The whole thing can be taken apart, down to it's core pieces in a relatively short period of time. While it does take some getting used to, this can be done by yourself rather than a saddler.

Firstly, the front of the saddle is very adjustable as you can purchase additional headplates for £15 from first thought. Their headplate sizes also come in a much larger range than in most saddles Ive come across. If you check out the following page... you can see exactly how narrow to how wide your saddle can go:-

http://www.flair.uk.com/wow/wow%20fitting.htm

They then have two different shapes of head plate... a "U" shaped one and a "V" shaped one which obviously accomodate different horses.

The saddle comes with a choice of gullets which can be switched out for a different gullet at a later time if necessary. Again if you look at the following link, you can see what kind of customized fit we're talking:-

http://www.flair.uk.com/wow/wow%20panelgulletoptions.htm

This was really important with my horse as he does have a tendency when stressed, to come rather above the bit. With a horse that does this (you can see this at home by asking someone to raise your horses head up high), the muscles behind their withers "pop out". A saddle should accomodate this happening without pinching the horse.
It's also important to remember that while a horse can be quite narrow through its withers, it doesnt mean it will be narrow through its back - which was part of the issue with mine. What fit round his withers would suffocate him through his back.

Because their saddle is modular, you can also account for a difference between the horse's length of back and the riders length of leg. For example, too many people neglect the length of their saddle assuming that it ONLY relates to the size of the rider. The saddle should not sit on a horses' loins and if it does so, it can cause bruising to an area that is directly above the kidneys... this will never promote good ridden work from poor horsey. Now, my horse is EXTREMELY short coupled. I originally had a 17.5 inch saddle on him (which is also what his old owner rode in). It soon became apparent that this was too long, however Im 5ft 11. When I turned up to see the wow people, the first thing David said was "your horse needs a 16.5 inch seat" and I nearly collapsed

However, because the seat and panels arent attached, they can customize the panels for the horse's length and then the seat for the rider's height.

You have a huge choice of flaps on the wow:-

http://www.flair.uk.com/wow/wow%20flap.htm

And get one set as standard. In addition to this, the flaps can be fitted in two different positions which can again, accomodate the rider more than conventional saddles:-

http://www.flair.uk.com/wow/wow%20flap%20position.htm

I opted for the fixed block dressage flaps on mine. I did try the giant block flap but they were HUGE and I didnt think I needed that level of support. You get one set of flaps with the saddle and can buy additional sets. Again, once you get the hang of it, its quite easy to switch the flaps about for whatever you're doing on any given day.

You also have two different fixtures for the stirrup leathers; a forward bar and a backward bar. The backwards bar places the riders leg in correct alignment for a classical dressage seat. The forwards bar allows you to then adjust for a jumping position. I only ever ride with my stirrups on the backwards bar but know a few people who switch between.

The seat for me is a huge selling point on the wow. Firstly, you choose the depth of seat between deep, medium and shallow. I ride in the deep seat as it helps keep a better position. I have ridden in the shallow seat since I had a GP saddle for my mare before this one. The reason I find the wow so comfortable can be found here:-

http://www.flair.uk.com/wow/wow%20seat.htm

Right at the top of your thigh you have a small indentation. Most saddles have a straight piece of leather that sits here between the seat and where the flap starts (it covers the stirrup bars). On the wow, this isnt flat. It fills the indentation at the top of your leg which makes it a) more comfier and b) gives you more support on the horse. This allows you to wrap your leg around more right from the top and has certainly helped my sitting trot. My horse has huuuuuuge paces and I quite simply couldn't sit to his trot when I was using an amerigo before. Now I can. Aside from this, the seat is comfy!

The saddle incorporates the flair system as standard which immediatly solves issues with flocking problems. Flair tends to allow for much better muscle development over the back and the air bags also help to spread the riders weight much more effectively:-

http://www.flair.uk.com/flair/flair%20frame.htm

The flair can be altered while you're on the horse which is impossible with traditionally flocked saddles. They can make absolutly microscopic alterations to the pressure until everything is correct and they can do this by watching the horse moving. You've got to remember that most saddles are fitted to a horse at stand still and while they let the riders try them out, they cant alter it to a moving horse there and then. They can alter flair in this way.

The people at first thought always warn that horses tend to go up several tree widths once being worked in the wow as it allows for a better overall muscle development and this is true. My horse has certainly gone up several widths. However, everytime he's gone up a width, ive also had the option of altering the gullet where necessary so you arent only changing the front of the saddle.

Because my horse was quite a bizarre shape when I got him (muscle wastage, has very high withers, very short back and a tall rider), I ended up dealing directly with the owners of first thought and had the pleasure (for me anyway!) of going to Richard Davison's to have my saddle fitted while they were there altering some of his. They were so very very thorough with my horse and their attention to detail at every single stage was amazing. Tiny, tiny alterations to the saddle made immediate impacts on the way my horse moved and gave me a whole different insight into saddle fitting. They were even very patient with my horse hating having the flair altered while I was on (there was a tiny hissing noise from the valve and he freaked out about it!)

The saddles aren't cheap, but they aren't more expensive than any of the top end saddles (cheaper than some of them) but because they can be altered so much, they really can accomodate all changes in the horse's shape.

I'd thoroughly recommend speaking to the people at first thought and at least trying one of the saddles. Be aware they do feel strange at first because the seat is different to most other saddles, but once you're used to them, you really wont go back.

I popped on my boy bareback earlier this week and actually hadnt noticed the change in him (from above) until then. He has had his quite a while now and while Ive been pleased with the way he's muscled up, its the first time Ive sat on him without a saddle and it gives quite a unique perspective. For a horse that was in a narrow amerigo / albion when he came to me (neither of which fit him right), he's now massive over his back. If i'd bought any other saddle when I first got him, there is no way I could have still had it now. Even with a saddle that allowed the head plate to be adjusted such as the wintecs or bates' they couldnt have possibly allowed for the changes BEHIND the withers.

Their website is quite good at explaining the concepts behind the saddle better than I can, although its an ugly looking site

If you're willing to spend a bit more money, they DO pay off in the long run. They'll also let you trial the saddles and even if you choose to order one, you get two weeks from it arriving to needing to pay for it to ensure it really is ok. Cant recommend them enough really! But I'll shut up waffling now!

 

[Blizzard]

Thank you So so much for all of that, will Pm you

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Quite a short post this in comparison:
I've got a Bates Caprilla Dressage Saddle along with other Bates saddles & they are extremely comfortable. It helps your leg position & posture, has the cair panels & changeable gullet system.

If you have a horse that is going to be changing shape considerably then these are ideal. For about £15 a time you can buy a narrower or wider gullet & in 5 minutes you will have it fitted & back on your horse. It will save you a fortune in the long run. You can also cater for some possible weight loss that may occur during the winter months. No matter how the horse changes shape the Bates can be adjusted to fit most. This is a saddle that you can buy used & you know it can be made to fit with ease.

 

[henryhorn]

I;ve got one and bought the dressage panels afterwards. (£130) They arrived much darker leather than the original but it looks very smart.
The panels are not true dressage cut, more like WH straightness, but the saddle is very comfortable.
Our horses are generally medium fit and I would say the medium fit is accurate, we have a fair number of different makes and this isn't particularly narrow or wide in comparison. (I bought mine off ebay, paid just under £385 for it)

 

[ktedcastle]

I have used Albions for years and i have no problems recomending them. They are fantastic saddles.
I now have a wow saddle which i think is a great concept but i dont find this saddle nearly as comfortable as my albion.
I am now selling my wow saddle because i am putting my mare in foal, it isnt even 6 months old but i cant justify keeping a saddle i paid over £1500 for. And becuse they are so expensive I wouldnt want to use it for breaking and training my youngsters just incase i damage it. It is also alot heavier than the albions, so not nearly so easy when working with young horses.
I just purchased a selecta saddle today for getting my youngsters going, i recieved all the different dicipline saddle pads with it so it is a very versitile saddle. It is a m/w and looks fairly true to form.
I found the sizing of the albions are very good for warmbloods because they give their shoulders extra room. They have different sizing if you have a tb type horse you should check where the size is stamped on. It should have for example 17"M tb if it has the troughbred panel in it or 17"M/M if it is the standard Medium fit.
Hope this helps.