Does anyone NOT treat for cushings?

floradora09

floradora09

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I rent a field with a pony who's been diagnosed with cushings for about a year (but sure he's had it much longer than that). The people who loan him had agreed with owner that owner would pay for any vets bills, including ongoing treatment.

Long story short, pony had been on meds for a bit, and his coat started to look better, but he is unlikely to get any more meds now.

Does it become a welfare issue for a cushings pony not be getting Peroglide/Prascend? I've done a bit of reading online and it seems that without treatment you're more likely to have to deal with the symptoms being lami, poor immune system and a long coat? So far *touches everything wood* he's not had laminitis, but does resemble a hairy beast, has fat pads and did come back with a med. worm count a few weeks ago.

I don't have any responsibility for him, but do care about him and am wondering whether there is anything that needs to be done, or what risks there are for not treating? :o
 
Why won't he get any more treatment? Seems a bit pointless starting it in the first place, did they think it would just cure the cushings or something?

If mine was not medicated she would have to be pts as her quality of life would be poor. With medication she's bright and relatively healthy. It's a tricky one though if the pony isn't yours. Could you contact the BHS or WHW? Or even have a chat with your own vet? I'd have thought that cushings significant enough to medicate would be a welfare issue if that medication was withdrawn, but I'm not sure how anyone could enforce it.
 
I know someone who doesn't - on vet's advice apparently. She just maintains him with a high fibre diet to help prevent Lami. She is intelligent and the horse seems fine, for now.
 
Before pergolide/Prascend was so cheaply and easily available I had a Cushings pony that did not receive medication. Her main symptom was laminitis and I managed to control that with careful routine and diet. Her coat was a bit long but didn't cause her any problems at all and she had no other problems from it. She actually died of something totally unrelated in the end!

So a lot will depend on the pony's symptoms and whether they can be controlled by other means.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone :)

Nudi, he seems perky enough and happy, it's more a worry if he will deteriorate faster without medication but I guess we'll have to cross that bridge when we come to it. Owner is very busy and he doesn't appear to be very high on their list of priorities, so supply of tablets would be patchy at best, but recently loan family haven't been able to get hold of any at all. I'm tempted to try and get him registered with the same vet as my horse, so at least when I have them out for jabs etc I can be sure he has been done too.

TGM interesting to know it can be managed, his is a little more advanced I feel, we're already very careful about letting him get too much grass, I might suggest they feed him a handful of chaff/fast fibre with a supplement in to support his immune system as I feel this is his most compromised area.
 
Our old horse wouldnt touch his meds no matter what we put it in. After the lami that alerted us to the problem he only had one very mild attack. Vet said not to worry about meds. We managed him with a high fibre diet and lamishield.
 
Some years back I had a pony with Cushings - she was on Pergolide and by mistake I gave her a dose of NAF D-tox one morning. The effect was very fast and unbelievable. She was badly laminitic but on leading her to her paddock she was jogging instead of creeping.
I thought it was a good day for her. Next day she was creeping again. I tried the D-tox and she was full of life again so, she stayed on D-tox, cheaper and she was a lot better for it than with the Pergolide.
 
I knew a pony with cushings years ago. The tablets were 150 pounds per month and the insurance would only pay for treatment for another 5mth until policy came up for renewal, at which time they'd exclude the condition. Perhaps there's a similar situation here with the owner unable to pay for treatment? I don't see it as a welfare issue as long as the pony is PTS at an appropriate time. The coat can be clipped in summer. If the pony gets laminitis it may or may not be treatable, but without being mean, we've all got to die of something. Not all owners have a bottomless pit of money to throw at increasing amounts of medication or management regimes to enable old ponies with health problems to keep going. That's not to say old ponies don't matter, but its an issue of what's practical and reasonable for each individual owner.
 
my vet thinks my 27 yr old mare has it, but just finished paying £800 vet bill, so haven't tested her for it!

her only symptom is a long thick coat! she is a VERY good doer, never loses weight and doesn't have any other signs of it! if she's got it, she will have had it for at least 5 years based on her fluffiness and she's not yet suffied with lami or anything! so bad as it may sound, I'm in no rush to start feeding an otherwise perfectly health old lady expensive meds just for a fluffy coat!
 
Our 27 year old Welsh A has cushings (not diagnosed but she has the symptoms). She used to suffer with laminitis until she lost her front teeth, and had now been 100% sound for about 10 years. Her other symptoms include the thick curly coat (we clipped off in spring year before last but this spring my sister managed to brush it all out), and the drinking / peeing quite a bit. She's cheerful as anything, and you'd never think she was 27. I don't feel we need to put her on any medication, unless there are any changes which are detrimental to her wellbeing.
 
Well my vet quoted me 160 a box for the cushing treatment and estimated that would do us 4/5 months if my boy tested positive as it was something I looked at after a comment by on of the BF peeps :)

He's not showing any symptoms according to vet but my field mates old pony had it and she refused to eat the meds so ended up not getting it and she lived lami and illness free for about 8 years after diagnosis, she only was PTS as she broke her leg in the field. The kids were still riding her and she would bomb about the field like the rest :)
 
I don't treat my little 22 year old mare. I tried her on Pergolide once but it put her off her food & made her depressed. She came straight off, vet said to try her without with PTS in mind.

3 years later she's as bright as a button. I know exactly how to manage her lami & keep her sound. She won't be clipped so lots of grooming in the spring takes care of the coat. She does drink a lot but I always make sure she has access to lots of clean water.
She's probably more high maintenance than both my TB's but I love her so don't care :D
 
I probably wouldn't medicate again. I did. but it was a last-ditch attempt to keep her with us. Worked OK for about two years but was. IMO, too little, too late :(

If they don't suffer from laminitis (and by no means all do, with most ponies over 20 having a degree of pituitary enlargement) then there's no real reason to give Pergolide or equivalent.

Just keep the coat, feet and teeth in good order and boost the immune system regularly..
 
I have a 29 year old mare with cushings (vets didnt do blood tests but went off symptoms to give diagnosis) and she doesn't get pergoline/prasend due to previous experience of using medication.

i lost my 12 year old shetland to it 2 years ago and he was treated with meds, which to be honest made his QOL worse, he was depressed, lathargic and down right miserable on it. To top it all it still didnt stop him getting laminitus, sadly he didnt recover from the second bout and i had to let him go.

One thing that does seem to help with my mare is using vitex agnus/chaste berry supplement. it certainly helped with her coat and general well being. thankfully i dont think laminitus will be an issue for her as she's not really got any molar teeth left, but she seems happy and still is as sound as a pound :)

OP perhaps you could recommend the loaner of the pony uses a supplement, I have tried a few and currently use Hormonise, but there are other makes and most tend to work out at around £30/month for a 15,2 horse so perhaps lower for a pony. there is good clinical evidence backing up the berry's use (see the laminitus trusts website) so certainly worth a try
 
Thank you very much for all the suggestions everyone :) BennionsF, I'll take a look into those supplements and see if they're suitable for him. I've already suggested to put him onto a general vit/min supplement as he wasn't getting anything and this was probably contributing to his weaker immune system.

Brighteyes, sorry to hear that about yours :( it's mostly his immune system I'm concerned about so will look into that.

Fox Hunter, interesting re the NAF D-Tox, will have a look at it :)
 
L is not treated for hers. It's low grade. My vet looks after her and checks her several times a year and has never deemed it necessary. She has so many other more pressing issues! She's been diagnosed for 5 or 6 years but symptomatic for more like 8. Kept getting told only ponies get cushings! She is 32 still out with the herd and loving life.
 
I would suggest that if the horse has been prescribed medication then it should continue to be treated with them. Otherwise this becomes a welfare issue.
Pergolide is not expensive and can be bought from a normal chemists with a veterinary prescription for about £35 for 100 tablets. (250 micrograms).
 
PeterNatt said:
Pergolide is not expensive and can be bought from a normal chemists with a veterinary prescription for about £35 for 100 tablets. (250 micrograms).
Click to expand...

Didn't know this, but surely that would be for people and so dosage different so maybe not as cost effective?

That's what we felt re if it was a welfare issue, but as others have said, he's not *touch everything wood* so far had any lami and presumably that would be the most significant side effect of not giving him the medication.

Of course, it's tricky, if he was mine he would certainly be having it, but then he isn't so... :o
 
My boy is 21 and never had Laminitis. He was diagnosed with Cushings 2 years ago, with massively high levels. I asked for him to be tested when he started getting fat pads & became very lethargic.

With out Pergolide, he is quite lethargic and not the same pony i grew up with as a teen. We syringe it down him daily and it's very easy. It's also pretty cheap too, I owe him a lively healthier older life, he's given me the world!

I worked at the Lami Clinic for a while, who actually created & use Vitex4Equids (Agnus Castus mix). So that's another treatment that's worth trying as it's easy and palatable.
 
PeterNatt, unfortunately you can no longer buy Pergolide with a prescription from vet. They now only prescribe prascend which is exactly the same but much more expensive - I know this as my horse is on 4mg(!) a day and I pay for a prescription and buy the tablets online wherever happens to be cheapest. I've not found them cheaper than 88p a tablet which is fairly costly!! :(
 
My 19 year old section d was diagnosed with Cushings a couple of months ago as he suddenly came down with laminitis. I understand with some horses that diet can help sometimes, but mine was not on any hard food and eating only hay and he couldn't even tolerate 20 minutes on grass as laminitis followed only around 3 hours later. I was so surprised at the speed of how quickly laminitis not only came on, but also went away. He is now on drugs, which so far is controlling the laminitis and is now turned out daily, so at least he is having a quality life.

By what I have been reading is that every horses symptoms can be different and I think the management of it is a bit of trial and error as to what works for each horse.
 
Can't help about the meds, but if we're talking about an elderly or veteran pony that doesn't leave the field for competitions, then I wouldn't vaccinateaanyway
 
Stupid phone! Should also say that if immune system compromised and pony is susceptible to lami, I'd be talking in depth as to whether vaccinations are advisable.
 
I'm currently competing a horse at elementary, he'll be 20 next year and has had cushiness for 4/5 years he went completely downhill after treating with the usuals and stopped eating because of the medication - he has now not been on any medication for four years and is wonderful - he gets very hairy so we clip him all year round but apart from that you'd never know - lami is always a risk but we mange him like you would a fat little native pony!
 
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