Does colour equal cash?

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spottysport

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From a few remarks on here, and looking at other sources, would you pay more for a coloured or plain?????
I find it quite interesting as I breed 'colours', but I am just as happy with a plain foal as a loudly marked - as long as it has quality! I know the old saying 'a good horse is never a bad colour', but would you buy an inferior quality just as it has a lot of white?
I was looking at stallions this year. Is it just me or is it difficult to find a plain bay? Also there are (to my mind) some shockingly badly put together coloured stallions out there! Would it be standing if it were bay or chestnut?
Just a quick rant. Large drink if you get to the end
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Yep - especially in my experience where grey or dun connemaras go for 2-3x their solid counterparts!!
 
gosh - a 'coloured' breeder that actually recognises that a large percentage of the coloured stallions (and mares) used for breeding are crap and wouldn't stand a chance if they were a solid, normal colour

spotty - you just got 20 out of 10 from me !!!

I'm of the age where skewbalds and piebalds were 'common' gyppy nags and tbh I hated the sight of them and the ride they gave (boneshaking )

the idea of a 'coloured' TB racehorse fills me with despair

I wonder when CHAPS will cotton on and have proper stallion and mare gradings to get rid of the rubbish ?

It also annoys the heck out of me that we have showing classes for 'coloured' horses. What about a class exclusively for bays, or one for chestnuts (even better as I love chestnuts !!) ??

Bet a show wouldn't put one of those on so WHY should there be a 'special' class for coloured horses

Idea - paint all the white bits on a piebald black and then send it for grading and to a showing class and see if it gets anywhere - if it does then perhaps it deserves to be shown - if it doesn't then don't breed from it
 
I wouldn't pay more for a coloured than any other horse, I'd be interested in other features, like how well it rode, was put together and general attitude of the horse rather than colour and I'm sure alot of other people would be too. I'd try any horse that sounded like what I wanted, regardless of what colour it was.
 
Airedale hear hear! I had a coloured pony some 50 (!) years ago and whilst she was good looking and very talented she was classed as a 'mongrel' and as such I didnt show her of course.

Colour should surely be the least important thing. Athleticism, conformation and temperament are much more important surely.

I personally dont generally like coloured horses although I must admit there are now some quite nice ones around. As for CHAPS classes - what nonsense!!!!
 
those that buy greys just like to work hard keeping them clean

just smile wisely and buy anything but a grey or a horse with lots of white bits and pocket the cash you've saved on buying shampoo ;-))
 
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I'm of the age where skewbalds and piebalds were 'common' gyppy nags and tbh I hated the sight of them

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Yes I am of the same age and have the same thought-process.

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the idea of a 'coloured' TB racehorse fills me with despair

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Then can you imagine my horror when I saw pictures of the first palomino TB!!!
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Having said all that; I do own registered APHA's and I do like the ones I have, but then I am now a confirmed Quarter Horse girl.

Incidentally, greys, duns, buckskins, palominos and blacks are seriously sought after over here.....I prefer sorrels/chestnuts
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I must say I love a coloured, I think it always used to be they were more sane, and honest in general. I assume that's because coloured cobs would have to be the original lines they were bred from.
Yes, there are a lot of horrendous coloured stallions, but some lovely ones too.
I have no problem with a coloured tb,
 
palomino at least has the distinction of not being that far removed from a chestnut with a flaxen mane and tail

a coloured thing with white blotches - nothing is similar to that in 'normal' racehorse colourings

to get a palomino you need a cremelloe/albino and a chestnut - so theoretcially that is possible with existing racehorse genes - but coloured TB just doesn't exist and shouldn't exist

please hope that no-one lets that freak breed anything
 
I don't prefer any colour, nor would I spend any more money on a certain colour. Even though I own two coloureds, I didn't get them because they are coloured.
And I didn't want to breed a coloured, it just happened that there were no non coloured stallions that suited Hattie in my area, and I'm sure Hattie is Homo-whatsit so would of got a coloured anyway.
 
No point...only greys & duns get placed. We had a well respected (by some) showing judge say "A bay pony has no place in a Connemara class" once...
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(Personally I have dark bays with no white on their legs - easiest to keep clean
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There's more than a large percentage of crap out there! I had a look through Horsedeals, and I would rather leave the mares empty than breed to most of the stallions! The 'fashionable' word seems to be homozygous (sp?) That gives you a licence to breed anything you want to - because it will have colour!!!!!!!!!!
In case anyone is wondering, I show my coloureds in hunter & sporthorse classes.. I avoid special coloured classes as they have to compete against their peers - otherwise it really doesn't mean much to me!
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Well, if Spot hadn't been spotty, we would never have bought him. If he was bay you would have walked past him very quickly as his confirmation is shocking. Obviously wanting to support British Breeding
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we bought him. However he has turned out to be quite good, even WFP the other day said how well he jumped. However he was less than a solid would have cost so we didn't pay a premium to own him, but the only reason he was bought was because of his spots
 
It does seems that plain coloured horses from coloured parents seems to go for less money than their coloured siblings, guess thats because coloured enthusiasts that know the blood lines want a coloured and are prepared to pay that bit extra. I bought my forst coloured horse after being lent her at camp, at 4 years old she has a temprement to die for wasnt unsettled by being at 3 different yards in two days and did everything that was asked of her when she was ridden, we asked the owner if she wold consider selling her ansd we paid a fair price, this horse got me into loving coloured horses as i wasnt partial to them before!

this picture was taken in april 1 week before she foaled

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I do slightly object to the suggestion that having a Grey is inferior because 'those who have greys just want to work hard keeping them clean'. I happen to have a grey, not because i particularly like them but because she is an arab and the vast majority of arabs are grey! (historially they were the preferred colour) Just like there are far more bay TBs than anything else.

I agree we shouldn't breed for colour, but we also shouldn't discriminate against a horse because of its colour.
 
I must say I find this post slightly ironic airedale given that on a few occassions you have specifically stated you are breeding with the aim of producing a palamino, if that's not breeding for colour then what is? In my mind it's no different than breeding for skewbald/piebald ... however I suspect you will have some justification for this and will be more than willing to share it
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However I do agree there are crap coloureds around being used as stallions or sold at over inflated prices. And it would be good if CHAPS did introduce a stringent grading system.
 
"It also annoys the heck out of me that we have showing classes for 'coloured' horses. What about a class exclusively for bays, or one for chestnuts (even better as I love chestnuts !!) ??"

Blatent colourism isn't it? When I was PC Secretary and we held our show planning sessions I suggested just that, classes for bays/chestnuts/greys, shot down in flames? I crashed and burned, yet for a small local fun fundraising show I think it's a heck of a 'class filler'.

I do think that the trend for coloureds is pushing the price up, when I used to go to LLandybydder each month I would see the pens of scrubby mountain types, the solids would go for maybe 40 pounds, the coloureds into 3 figures, and the spotteds would start a bidding war, and what for? A mangy, worm ridden, badly conformed weanling dragged off the mountain. Pitiful.

As for the comments about coloured horses being 'filled' in as a bay/chestnut/black etc and looked at again, absolutely right, how many of them would honestly have the 'Wow, look at that!' factor?
 
don't tempt me - I'd love to take one, show it to a buyer that wanted to buy it, whip it round the corner and colour in all the blotches and then come back with it as "well if you liked that coloured horse I've got one even better" and reappear with the same horse painted a solid colour

bet the buyer will start slagging off teh solid coloured horse in comparison with the coloured horse

would be such fun

anyone got identical twin horses, one coloured and one not ?? would be an interesting experiment !!
 
Have some photo shop fun for us...... now you see him, now you don't!
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ROFL at the thought of you dyeing a horse one colour.
 
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gosh - a 'coloured' breeder that actually recognises that a large percentage of the coloured stallions (and mares) used for breeding are crap and wouldn't stand a chance if they were a solid, normal colour

Totally agree, i myself being a coloured breeder feel there are far to many coloured stallions out there that shoud be nice geldings.






I wonder when CHAPS will cotton on and have proper stallion and mare gradings to get rid of the rubbish ?

If you have anything to do with CHAPS you would know that the grading structure has been completly changed for the last 3 gradings. They have taken advice from alot of experianced studbooks and separated all the animals into catogories, sporthorses now have there own section, and have applied for WBFSH, not only for type but have to meet pedigree requirements also. I think CHAPS has cottoned on when you see what has passed in the last 3 gradings? but then its the same old thing, people still use ungraded stallions, some with no pedigree, so no matter how hard you try not everyone will gain from it. Untill people look harder into a stallion they plan to use things will never go forward, i breed sporthorses so i am refering to there type.
 
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but coloured TB just doesn't exist and shouldn't exist

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Interesting. When I was in Kentucky I foaled a colt, by Saint Ballado (very dark bay/brown horse) out of a dark dappled bay mare called Donusa. What colour was the foal? He was essentially chestnut, very flashy, with four white feet and extensive sabino markings over his stomach - this pic doesn't show his whitest side. He was dual registered with the American Paint Horse Society (or whatever it's called) as well as with the Jockey Club.
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Also My Darling One, anothe chestnut with sabino markings, won over $340,000 on the track!!!
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Another also, they've been around for quite a while! How do you explain this fella?

"King Of Trumps"
This is an oil painting made in 1790 of a coloured Thoroughbred racehorse - King of Trumps - owned by King George III. It hangs in "The Sudley Art Gallery" in Liverpool, England
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Well I have to say that some people are breeding to very poor coloured stallions just in the hope of getting a coloured foal. I do agree that people are buying coloured foals at ridiculous prices compared to their solid counterparts.

As somebody previously has mentioned, standing a homozygous stallion is a license to print money. I think that sometimes people are giving up on soundness, performance and quality just in the hope that their foal will be coloured.

I also have to say that we go to the KWPN Stallion Show every year in Holland and there have been three coloured stallions go through the selection process in the last couple of years, but if you take the colour apart then were of poorer quality than their solid counterparts. Needless to say they never got any further than the 2nd round.

However, i do think that there are a couple of coloured stallions who seem to throw good enough quality stock even though they cannot guarantee coloureds.


Can I ask.....................do people feel the same way about all the Cremello stallions now hitting the UK shore? Would be interesting to know if you group these as the same?
 
Hi Thistle Urban has a great temprament and has passed this on to both his foals over here, interestingly enough the most people to use him so far this year have been in belgium, i think they recognise his bloodlines better.

Anastasia i stand a homozygous stallion at stud, i wouldnt say he makes me loads of money as i wont cover mares without pedigrees unless they have good performance records or have bred previously good stock, alot of people dont like this, but the mares that he has covered so far this year {non coloured} are all of good quality in pedigree/competition and breeding, surely this is only going to improve on the coloureds hitting the floor. Our stallion was bought as a yearling because of his scores at his premiums, his very good movement and modern build and temprament and because for a coloured horse he has great proven bloodlines on both sides of his pedigree, he wasnt tested to be homozygous till i tested him after owning him 6 months.
so please dont tar everyone with a homo stallion with the same brush.

I also think it will be a long time before the KWPN will take on another coloured stallion, I think Poeh Poeh would have been good enough to go through but he didnt and the Danny Wild stallion of Franks is very nice in the flesh but not modern but he is taking him back so we will see.

Most of the Cremellos are of breeding i know nothing about so cant really comment on them. there seems to be lots appearing though.
 
I am not tarring anyone with any brush. If you actually read my post properly then you will see that it was previously mentioned, I was just agreeing.

I think that you screening mares is a very good thing, that is what any reputable stud tends to do, and more breeders should be doing that to improve the quality of foals being produced.

Can I ask do you allow your homozygous stallion to cover coloured mares? I see you only mention solids?

Also you may want to be a bit more politically correct than calling your stallion a "homo"...............LOL
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Lastly and IMHO it will have to be a very very good stallion that would be accepted for Ermelo and become Approved by the KWPN, regardless of colour!
 
Sadly I too am of the age where coloured horses were bought from Ireland for a few quid, were the preferred stock of riding schools for their calm temperament and weight carrying ability, and were known (no intention to offend here) as 'tinkers' horses' so couldn't bring myself to buy one.
But then I also dislike bays (the brown with black mane variety) so what do I know?
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Yes definately so with PREs, blacks and bays have always been at a premium, but now the spanish have allowed any colour to be registered, chesnuts, duns, palominos, perlinos etc etc have a double zero added to the price
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and people are starting to breed for colour, as long as they don't breed for colour alone there should not be any problems but have a feeling conformation may well go out the window in the elusive search for that unusual colour
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Me too, Tia and Airedale, that could have been me writing Airedale's post! Surely the coloured "thing" at the moment is just a fashion fad? I get quite angry at the people breeding coloureds for coloureds sake. New Forest do not recognise coloureds but there are more and more people breeding NFs to colureds - WHY? And I was a bit horrified to see an advert on Arabianlines for a Arab mare in-foal to a coloured . . . I despair.
 
Me too, Tia and Airedale, that could have been me writing Airedale's post! Surely the coloured "thing" at the moment is just a fashion fad? I get quite angry at the people breeding coloureds for coloureds sake. New Forest do not recognise coloureds but there are more and more people breeding NFs to coloureds - WHY? And I was a bit horrified to see an advert on Arabianlines for a Arab mare in-foal to a coloured . . . I despair.
 
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palomino at least has the distinction of not being that far removed from a chestnut with a flaxen mane and tail

a coloured thing with white blotches - nothing is similar to that in 'normal' racehorse colourings

to get a palomino you need a cremelloe/albino and a chestnut - so theoretcially that is possible with existing racehorse genes - but coloured TB just doesn't exist and shouldn't exist

please hope that no-one lets that freak breed anything

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Wow, I'm sorry, but how narrow minded can you get?
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Roan does exist in TBs, but it's reg. as grey.

This boy: http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/sr_sire_page.asp?refno=1112686&origin=link is a sabino or if you like, a coloured TB. I'm sure there are more out there too.

BTW, a flaxen chestnut and a pally are genetically different.
 
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