Does despooking training actually work?

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Dudleydoodlebug

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My 10 year old section d is quite spooky and always has been.

I have done all the usual checks, teeth, back, tack and he has regular check ups.

He is on a calmer which has really helped but I am wondering what else I can do for him.

The other day I had had a great schooling session and was really pleased with him I stopped him to dismount and just as I had my feet out of the stirrups he spooked and continued spooking down the school until I had fallen off! There was absolutely no reason that I could see for the spook.

So my question is does all the ground work, tarpaulin etc really work?

Any experiences or info much appreciated. X
 
I was helped with this with my youngster prior to backing him. The lady I went to said it was about controlling the flight response. Therefore, not sure you would ever 'cure' a spooky horse but you can control the reaction so it doesn't end up legging it like yours did.

We did a lot of work on the ground. Anything he spooked at he was asked to stand, look at, walk towards and then stand. As we moved away, he was not then allowed to rush forwards (as they tend to do - ie running away from the 'danger'). We used previous methods I had done with her groundwork wise to then stop him from dashing forwards and asking instead for him to halt then walk away steadily and calmly. I find it has helped me now I am aboard him as i have used the same techniques she;s taught me and he doesn't now try to flee from what he is spooking/scared of.

However, considering he has unceremoniously bronced me off today at our first ridden show (as a spectator on him only), I am not sure i've quite cracked everything with him yet!!! ;)
 
I don't really have too much to offer but for what it's worth groundwork has really helped my lad. I lunged him loads and still am, it's easier to move him past the scary item from the ground. I can also crack the lunge whip to keep his attention on me. It helps me see what his spook pattern is, so when I'm on board I can see it coming and try to counteract by distracting him with a half halt and inside bend. We will move up to flags/tarp/washing but he's been pretty good so far, I have only had two small spooks this week despite riding every day. I think it is worth considering why he might be spooking. Is he genuinely scared,is he having a chuckle at your expense (unexpended energy that has to come out) or is he distracted and therefore surprised by something commonplace?
 
My youngster rated vertical and ******ed off oh and laid claim to a lot of my skin the first time a van drive past the driveway on.a walk ,queue tonnes and of ground work and desensizing with bags in sticks etc, hoses, building up to watching cars pass us. The key was to stop all ' 'flapping' when he stood still so he knew standing was aneasier option .this was built up and put in to practice on walking hacks in hand. I'm just strarted hacking out on him and I can't tell you how much he has dealt with, tractors flat beds, tarps flapping, buses etc and he its unflappable (do far). He is the lest spooky horse I have ever o owned, the key to all his training is that bif he is with me all be be cool, , anywhere without
 
I discussed this in a blog post about a month ago...

The answer is "it depends" ;) - most important thing to recognize is (also touched on in the blog) that the horse is not necessarily spooking because of something flapping, they're spooking at something flapping because what you've just been doing has got them a bit anxious about the world in general. So despooking isn't necessarily the answer, working on calmness in your schooling work is probably more beneficial.

http://horsesunderourskin.wordpress.com/2013/02/14/things-that-go-bump-in-the-night/
 
It depends on the horse.

I have had two bright chestnut horses who were impossible to permanently despook. I've always wondered if the colour was connected. I've done loads of others, many of them other people gave up on, with no trouble.

Basically, you have to try whatever you can, but don't automatically blame yourself if it doesn't work.
 
Mine's a chestnut :S but I'd categorise him as 'sensitive' rather than spooky per se. He does go much more confidently, the more confident I am... So I'd echo what
 
No, it does not.
You can wave a polythene bag all around a horse until it does not bat an eyelid but, this is different to a bag blowing towards it when out and about.

A woman in the US wrote this and I 100% agree with what she has to say.

1) Obedience is NEVER optional. A good trail horse is nothing more than a horse that does everything 'right away' that a rider asks. Absolute and quick obedience -- 100% compliance without an argument should be the goal.

2) Your job (as the rider) is not to let your horse look at everything new and decide it is OK. That is your job. You should NOT show him that there is nothing to be afraid of. Your job as an 'effective' rider is to teach him that he needs to trust YOU and ONLY YOU -- not his natural instincts. It is your job to teach him to pay attention to his job (doing whatever you ask) and not his surroundings. Your goal should be to teach him to ignore anything he 'perceives' as fearful.

3) I NEVER let a horse look at things, examine things, go up to new things, 'sniff'' things or any of that. If you do any of these, you are teaching to stop and look or sniff everything instead of go on down the trail. The habit I want to reinforce is to go past or through anything without stopping to look at it. If I tell him it is OK, I want him to accept that without questioning me. You can't have it both ways. He either has to become the leader and figure out everything for himself in his time-frame (for some horses that is never) or he has to let you be the leader. I am convinced that I am smarter and know what I am doing and I know where I want to go and I don't really need or want his opinion at all.

If you let a horse look at things, then you are teaching him to be afraid of everything that is new and telling him that things should be looked at instead of ignored. You are not telling him that it is OK to go right past it. I want a horse to ignore everything but me. You have to remember that whatever you let or ask him to do (like checking things out) is what you are teaching him to do. Do you want a horse that is afraid of everything and stops at every new thing he encounters or do you want a horse that goes everywhere you point his head without questioning you? Remember, you just can't have it both ways.

4) When a horse starts to hesitate and starts to show fear, 'ride hard and fast'. Go faster, cover more ground, ride off of the trail and in the roughest footing you can find. All of these things get his attention back to his 'job' and back to you and off of whatever he thought was a big wooly booger.

5) Never ride straight toward something that you can go around. If a horse is afraid of a big tree stump, do not ride him straight toward it. [You are just setting his up to stop and back up. Remember, you are trying to make the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult and setting him up to stop and back up is not doing that.] Ride past it several times while taking his attention away from the stump and keeping it on you. I like to use 'leg yielding' exercises. I will ride past an object with his head bent away from the object and my leg pushing his shoulders and ribs toward the object. I watch his ear that is away from the object. I know I have his attention and respect for my leg when that ear stays 'cocked' back toward me. I will go past the object, switch my dominant rein to the one nearest the object, will reverse directions TOWARD the object (I never let him turn his tail to anything he fears) and I will leg yield back past it again using my other leg to push him (bend him) toward it. I will go back and forth again and again until he walks right on by without looking at it or veering away from it -- just goes straight on by like it isn't there.

Stopping a horse from spooking starts by insisting on everything is obeyed instantly - this includes in the stables.
Everything, every time has to be done calmly and immediately. No exceptions. Once this is achieved the horse will be far better when ridden because it knows that you mean what you say.
 
Foxhunter49 said:
No, it does not.
You can wave a polythene bag all around a horse until it does not bat an eyelid but, this is different to a bag blowing towards it when out and about.

A woman in the US wrote this and I 100% agree with what she has to say.

1) Obedience is NEVER optional. A good trail horse is nothing more than a horse that does everything 'right away' that a rider asks. Absolute and quick obedience -- 100% compliance without an argument should be the goal.

2) Your job (as the rider) is not to let your horse look at everything new and decide it is OK. That is your job. You should NOT show him that there is nothing to be afraid of. Your job as an 'effective' rider is to teach him that he needs to trust YOU and ONLY YOU -- not his natural instincts. It is your job to teach him to pay attention to his job (doing whatever you ask) and not his surroundings. Your goal should be to teach him to ignore anything he 'perceives' as fearful.

3) I NEVER let a horse look at things, examine things, go up to new things, 'sniff'' things or any of that. If you do any of these, you are teaching to stop and look or sniff everything instead of go on down the trail. The habit I want to reinforce is to go past or through anything without stopping to look at it. If I tell him it is OK, I want him to accept that without questioning me. You can't have it both ways. He either has to become the leader and figure out everything for himself in his time-frame (for some horses that is never) or he has to let you be the leader. I am convinced that I am smarter and know what I am doing and I know where I want to go and I don't really need or want his opinion at all.

If you let a horse look at things, then you are teaching him to be afraid of everything that is new and telling him that things should be looked at instead of ignored. You are not telling him that it is OK to go right past it. I want a horse to ignore everything but me. You have to remember that whatever you let or ask him to do (like checking things out) is what you are teaching him to do. Do you want a horse that is afraid of everything and stops at every new thing he encounters or do you want a horse that goes everywhere you point his head without questioning you? Remember, you just can't have it both ways.

4) When a horse starts to hesitate and starts to show fear, 'ride hard and fast'. Go faster, cover more ground, ride off of the trail and in the roughest footing you can find. All of these things get his attention back to his 'job' and back to you and off of whatever he thought was a big wooly booger.

5) Never ride straight toward something that you can go around. If a horse is afraid of a big tree stump, do not ride him straight toward it. [You are just setting his up to stop and back up. Remember, you are trying to make the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult and setting him up to stop and back up is not doing that.] Ride past it several times while taking his attention away from the stump and keeping it on you. I like to use 'leg yielding' exercises. I will ride past an object with his head bent away from the object and my leg pushing his shoulders and ribs toward the object. I watch his ear that is away from the object. I know I have his attention and respect for my leg when that ear stays 'cocked' back toward me. I will go past the object, switch my dominant rein to the one nearest the object, will reverse directions TOWARD the object (I never let him turn his tail to anything he fears) and I will leg yield back past it again using my other leg to push him (bend him) toward it. I will go back and forth again and again until he walks right on by without looking at it or veering away from it -- just goes straight on by like it isn't there.

Stopping a horse from spooking starts by insisting on everything is obeyed instantly - this includes in the stables.
Everything, every time has to be done calmly and immediately. No exceptions. Once this is achieved the horse will be far better when ridden because it knows that you mean what you say.
Click to expand...

I do agree with this, however it does also depend on your approach to addressing behaviour. Some horses think and process things faster than others, just like people - some of us grasp new things a lot quicker than others. It is about timing as much as your attitude and how you approach situations. :)
 
That's far too black and white Foxhunter. I have had two that in spite of my experience of retraining bad horses I could not cure at all. I have had others, most, which respond brilliantly to the approach in your quote. But I have one right now who is a nightmare if I try to make him listen to me instead of look at what he is afraid of, and a little lamb if I drop the reins and let him sort it out for himself. They are all different, what works with one will not necessarily work with another.


I definitely think chestnuts are, in general, more sensitive more often that the other colours.
 
When I do my de-spooking with Ned, I don't do it so he's not scared of a bag, or umbrella or whatever, or I'd be forever showing him things he may or may not see in his life time, but rather that he can trust me when things scare him.

I really think it's worked! Before I did the bombproofing, I couldn't hack alone and now I can!
 
I seem to be stuck in a bit of a rut with my TB at this point in time, was considering posting a thread myself!
Having read this and thought about it I honestly don't think you can completely despook something.

I bought her as a 12 year old who had seemed to come to a rut in her career as she was so spooky and flighty - however this was soon diagnosed as kissing spine.

She has always had a mad side to her but with the right training and buttons pressed she is wonderful.

However a year and a half since her op she has developed sarcoids which have kept her out of work for a good 6 weeks now, and I got on her the other day to begin walk work only to have to jump off 10 mins in to save myself from her napping and spooking at dogs and cars whilst in the arena! (Hence feeling stuck in a rut)
Silly me for forgetting all the long reining, lunging and hacking we had to do to get back in the first place!

If she can't 'forget' the pain and misery of her kissing spine, why would/should she 'forget' despooking training?

Long story short I'm starting her again, again, again lol :)
 
I agree with Foxhunter to an extent - the "let them stop and sniff and work out it's not scary" method can lead to horses who don't obey their riders / don't have basic manners. However I think it depends on how you approach this sort of ground work - if you use the fluffy "let him stop and sniff and think about it" approach, you'll get a different result from someone who sets up a scary, spooky course and works around it (in hand / on board) in the safety of their paddock and demands a mannerly response from their horse (i.e. keeping walking past) in a relatively controlled environment.

Personally, I think there is virtue in getting horses used to things in controlled environments and developing positive associations. One of mine was very gun shy and behaved like a total pleb encountering bird scarers and shoots on hacks. Farmer coincidentally put a bird scarer 15 feet from his field and he spent the first week shooting away in panic - until he got used to it, and now is angelic around bird scarers and shooting generally. He learnt that he had nothing to fear and life was easier (uninterupted grazing!) if he didn't make a fuss.

Similarly, mine have loose time in the vicinity of scary objects (balloons tied to fences, tarpaulin, kites etc) - if they want to have feed / be with me, they have to walk past these things - and if they want to investigate, that's fine.

If I'm leading or riding, there's no option to stop and sniff - they do as they're asked or face the conseqences.
 
I think the mounted police are a good advertisement for the effectiveness of de spooking training. Riding into a rioting mob with flames and missles being thrown is quite a training feat.

Perhaps instead of calling it de spooking, it should be called Confidence training. Different horses need an approach which works for them and a trainer who knows when to push and when to take the pressure off.

The ride 'em hard and teach 'em who's boss has its merits but a teacher who understands that there are times when a look-and-assess moment allows the horse to make its own conclusion and increase in confidence.
 
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