Does my horse need a hard feed?

[RIDMagic]

Just looking for a bit of advice. My 4yo Irish Draught mare has a very laid back nature and while she's not a complete dope, she's not the most forward going horse. She lives out 24/7 through summer, and in winter (from today actually) she comes in at night, out in a much smaller field through the day.

I'm just giving her a small handful of top line cubes after riding, more of a token feed than anything. She is a good doer and certainly doesn't need more condition.

I'm thinking of giving her more of a hard feed, partly for energy, but also for vits/mins... How do I know if she's getting all her requirements from the grass? Got to be careful she doesn't pile on the weight. Will be interesting to see if she picks up now she's in at night, but what to feed seems like a bit of a minefield! Any advice welcome!

 

[khalswitz]

You could try feeding balancer - that way she gets her vits and mins, with potentially more sparkle, without the calories she doesn't need. Something like Spillers Lite is good for good doers.

 

[calmgirl]

My ID X gets a Lo cal or Lite balancer and a handful or two of a mix (not really required but its 'free' in my livery). We have no lack energy issues though maybe someone could suggest an alternative if you do need something extra in winter. If not the lite balancers are a great job.

 

[RIDMagic]

Thanks, sounds like a balancer is the way to go. I did ask the vet for some feed advice when she came out to do injections, but she basically said if her weight is ok then don't give her anything. But I'd rather be on the safe side and give a supplement or balancer then I know she's getting everything she needs.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thanks, sounds like a balancer is the way to go. I did ask the vet for some feed advice when she came out to do injections, but she basically said if her weight is ok then don't give her anything. But I'd rather be on the safe side and give a supplement or balancer then I know she's getting everything she needs.

For goodness sake, take your vet's advice! Except in rare cases the only beneficiary from owners paying for balancers is the feed company! If your mare is getting enough forage from different sources ie grass with hay mad off the farm and a (non-molassed) mineral lick, she will get all that she needs. Feeding a handful of hard feed after a ride, is counter-productive unless you really do ride everyday. The first rule of horse feeding is consistency.

 

[Foxy O]

I think do what the vet say's if she is doing well on just grass and hay leave it at that, the mineral lick is a good idea that way if she needs anything extra she can get it from the lick. By feeding hard feeds when it's not required is just extra expense and hassle as she then may expect it through the summer as well.

 

[khalswitz]

For goodness sake, take your vet's advice! Except in rare cases the only beneficiary from owners paying for balancers is the feed company! If your mare is getting enough forage from different sources ie grass with hay mad off the farm and a (non-molassed) mineral lick, she will get all that she needs. Feeding a handful of hard feed after a ride, is counter-productive unless you really do ride everyday. The first rule of horse feeding is consistency.

If you are feeding a mineral lick, you are essentially supplementing their diet in the same way you would with a balancer anyway, just a different modality. Without testing the ground and hay, you don't know if something important is missing in the diet (most of the UK for example is selenium deficient) that may well not be noticeable until later in life, so SOME form of supplementation is required, whether it be a lick, pellet balancer, or powder supplement.

And vets aren't all that clued up on nutrition. I have a friend who is a top equine nutritionist, and she gets calls all the time from vets, who tell their clients they will get back to them on feed enquiries... and call her for advice!

 

[Polos Mum]

If your vet thinks she doesn't need hard feed then do realise if you choose to feed it you're only doing it for your benefit not hers - if its a balancer then no real harm (more than that she risks getting fat) but she'll just wee out all the excess vits and mins

 

[Theocat]

How much work is she doing, and what do you do with her? She'll have more energy when she's fit.

Let's face it, eating too much and being a tad overweight doesn't normally make anyone feel more energetic!

I'd give her a low calorie lick and look at workload.

 

[RIDMagic]

Thanks for all the replies (I actually replied a few hours ago but my useless phone didn't upload it!).

Pearlsasinger, I disagree with your comment "for goodness sake, take your vet's advice!" As khalswitz pointed out, not all vets have an awful lot of knowledge about nutrition. I suppose there's really no way to know if the grass is deficient in any vitamins or minerals without having it tested. It's the same with doctors; so many health problems, including some cancers, are caused or exacerbated by nutritional deficiencies, yet how often do you hear a doctor even mention diet as a possible cause or cure? Very rarely.

It seems like a balancer or supplement is the way to go, that way I have peace of mind that she is getting everything she needs. The worst that can happen is that I am wasting money! She's in regular but light work at the moment (hacking and schooling), but that will increase, so I guess I will just see how she goes through winter and with increasing fitness.

Thanks again for all replies.

 

[khalswitz]

To keep calories down, try either a specific lite balancer, or just a handful of chaff with powder supplement if she'll eat it without any added sweetness.

Really good post in Horse Care and Feeding by flintfootfilly I thought was appropriate to quote:

Having my hay/grass analysed convinced me of the value of feeding a daily vit/min supplement or balancer. My forage routineley comes in deficient in copper, zinc and selenium, and this is apparently common across a lot of the UK (it is estimated that 70% of the UK is selenium deficient). I only came to find that out because all my gang had muscle problems resulting in raised muscle enzymes and work intolerance (some vets described them as "stubborn" or "bored". Others might call them "lazy" but of course it wasn't that at all! Selenium is really important in muscle health, and inadequate amounts can lead to muscle damage and reluctance to work.

Organic selenium (selenium yeast or Selplex) is known to be more bioavailable than inorganic selenium (sodium selenite), and so I would only use a balancer or vit/min supplement providing around 1mg of selenium in the form of selenium yeast per day per 500kg horse. My favourite ones are Blue Chip or Dengie Alfa A balancer for this reason.

I also discovered during liver problems that a horse can look glowing with health on the outside but be very compromised internally. I think the way a horse looks probably reflects their calory intake, but it does not necessarily show whether they are getting adequate minerals.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Pearlsasinger, I disagree with your comment "for goodness sake, take your vet's advice!"

It seems like a balancer or supplement is the way to go, that way I have peace of mind that she is getting everything she needs. The worst that can happen is that I am wasting money! She's in regular but light work at the moment (hacking and schooling), but that will increase, so I guess I will just see how she goes through winter and with increasing fitness.
Thanks again for all replies.

Actually, it isn't the worst that can happen. You could completely upset her system by giving her too much of any particular vit/min or of whatever the filler is, in the brand you decide to use. And believe me I speak from experience. These days I will only give my horses single ingredient supplements, so that if anything goes wrong I know immediately what the problem is - and even then I've just had a worrying time, as my mare became extremely lethargic. She had been having magnesium oxide for about a month to try to help her weight loss (which it did). When I stopped the magnesium because i was concerned about her lethargy, she has perked up and is back to normal, after a few weeks rest.
I agree that vets are not nutritionists BUT in this instance I would take your vet's advice. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

ETA, as I routinely keep horses healthy into their thirties, I think my feed routine is reasonably ok. AS polo's Mum says, your horse will just wee out anything it doesn't need, including lots of your money. Well except anything that isn't water soluble, which it will store and build up into an excess.

 

[Mince Pie]

I'd hang on and see how she is now that she is coming in overnight. My lad is so laid back he's horizontal over the summer, as soon as he comes in for the winter he's a lot more forward going! We have a 'winter hacking bridle' as brakes can be a bit hit and miss at this time of year lol!

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

For my good doer who need energy she gts oats, alphalfa and sugar beet nice and simple and gives plenty of oomph for things I only feed maintenance of 1/4 of a round scoop of each daily in work and a few days before outings goes up to a full scoop of each to pep her up.

 

[Queenbee]

Just looking for a bit of advice. My 4yo Irish Draught mare has a very laid back nature and while she's not a complete dope, she's not the most forward going horse. She lives out 24/7 through summer, and in winter (from today actually) she comes in at night, out in a much smaller field through the day.

I'm just giving her a small handful of top line cubes after riding, more of a token feed than anything. She is a good doer and certainly doesn't need more condition.

I'm thinking of giving her more of a hard feed, partly for energy, but also for vits/mins... How do I know if she's getting all her requirements from the grass? Got to be careful she doesn't pile on the weight. Will be interesting to see if she picks up now she's in at night, but what to feed seems like a bit of a minefield! Any advice welcome!

If she is four, she is still technically a baby, I doubt it's q question of her being lacking in energy and more just baby behaviour, I'd note pumping in a topline mix or cube, but feeding her something like hifi or chopped grass with a balancer/supplement and working on getting her more responsive to this will make her sharper and she will seem like a whole different horse as her schooling develops and matures. Personally, unless she was low in weight, or in high levels of work, there is no way I would be considering a calorific feed.

 

[Queenbee]

Thanks for all the replies (I actually replied a few hours ago but my useless phone didn't upload it!).

Pearlsasinger, I disagree with your comment "for goodness sake, take your vet's advice!" As khalswitz pointed out, not all vets have an awful lot of knowledge about nutrition. I suppose there's really no way to know if the grass is deficient in any vitamins or minerals without having it tested. It's the same with doctors; so many health problems, including some cancers, are caused or exacerbated by nutritional deficiencies, yet how often do you hear a doctor even mention diet as a possible cause or cure? Very rarely.

It seems like a balancer or supplement is the way to go, that way I have peace of mind that she is getting everything she needs. The worst that can happen is that I am wasting money! She's in regular but light work at the moment (hacking and schooling), but that will increase, so I guess I will just see how she goes through winter and with increasing fitness.

Thanks again for all replies.

Actually I didn't read all the posts before posting on this thread. If your horse is in and on hay (which has been cut in the summer) and has a lick... I agree with your vet and others... Don't waste your cash. Unless you're planning on pushing your 4yr old far harder exercise wise than any 4yr old should be pushed then you won't need to feed for energy, and if your horse is grazing and being supplemented with hay and a mineral lick you've already got it covered... Personally the only change I would make is cutting out god awful topline cubes and using a forage based diet for feed

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

If you are feeding a mineral lick, you are essentially supplementing their diet in the same way you would with a balancer anyway, just a different modality. Without testing the ground and hay, you don't know if something important is missing in the diet (most of the UK for example is selenium deficient) that may well not be noticeable until later in life, so SOME form of supplementation is required, whether it be a lick, pellet balancer, or powder supplement.

If you offer an unmolassed mineral lick, the horse can access it, if it wants to but if you put a supplement/balancer in the feed, the horse has little choice about eating it. The only way to find out if a horse is deficient in something is to test THE HORSE, not the soil/forage. Every horse has different needs. IMO balancers and supplements are the latest marketting ploy of the feed companies, now tht more people are realising that molassed cereal-based feeds are not the best way to feed their horses.

ETA, we have 4 horses who all go through Himalayan salt licks at different rates but are kept on the same fields.

 

[khalswitz]

If you offer an unmolassed mineral lick, the horse can access it, if it wants to but if you put a supplement/balancer in the feed, the horse has little choice about eating it. The only way to find out if a horse is deficient in something is to test THE HORSE, not the soil/forage. Every horse has different needs. IMO balancers and supplements are the latest marketting ploy of the feed companies, now tht more people are realising that molassed cereal-based feeds are not the best way to feed their horses.

ETA, we have 4 horses who all go through Himalayan salt licks at different rates but are kept on the same fields.

Doesn't always work like that - my horse for instance won't touch a lick, even though I know from testing the ground what he's deficient in! So he gets it in his feed. And yes, test the horse - but blood test them, don't just see what they fancy eating. My horse has PSSM - he would still munch sugary, low selenium and vitamin a foods if he could, but it makes him spasm, so says a lot for how much they can judge what they need!

And yes, ground testing DOES tell you what the diet is deficient in, as you know what you aren't feeding enough of!! So any macro/micronutrients that the animal can't produce themselves, if the ground doesn't have enough then they NEED something else in their diet other than the grass and hay produced there! Selenium, copper and zinc are all common deficiencies in the ground, and if you aren't providing another source of that then they WILL be deficient, simple as that. Ground testing is a scientifically accepted method of calculating supplementary nutritional requirements in horses, so denying that is a bit silly really.

A salt lick isn't the same as a balancer, I completely agree than horses go through different amounts of salt depending on how much they sweat etc, but there are RDA for all macro and micronutrients that are best met through a balancer or powder supplement. And there is a feedback pathway that triggers salt cravings in a horse with too little sodium, but not for many of the other important macro and micro minerals.

And I also wouldn't class a salt lick as a mineral lick - it doesn't contain all the essential nutrients that can be missing from the grass and hay.