Does my horse really need a balancer?

[reblou]

My horse (a 15hh cob gelding) is in light/medium work. He is fed ad-lib hay, gets grass during the day, and has a handful of chaff 2x per day for his supplements. I currently feed him a balancer however I am wondering if it is actually necessary. He used to get soaked hay which was the main reason for his balancer, but now his weight is good he is on dry ad-lib. Anyone here feed ad lib forage and not feed a balancer? Thanks!

 

[gunnergundog]

Have you had your forage analysed? Do you know what it provides?

 

[Lexi 123]

Technically all uk horses could be on balancer because our grass is lacking in vitamins and so is our hay .

 

[ycbm]

Technically all uk horses could be on balancer because our grass is lacking in vitamins and so is our hay .

That was never apparent before balancers were available. They are a relatively modern invention. IMO they aren't essential for horses on mixed grazing and multi species meadow hay and you are better off, in more ways than one, supplementing only what's unbalanced in your area.

 

[smolmaus]

I think of it like "do i need a multi-vitamin". Maybe? Maybe my diet is fine but if I don't sit down and track my vitamin and mineral levels its easier to just take one.

 

[Landcruiser]

Well I've been caught out by feeding what I thought was a decent balancer, only to discover yesterday that my youngster has selenium deficiency. My horses have ad lib meadow hay plus 2 feeds of herbal chaff with added herbs, plus yea sac and brewers yeast... - I thought that was OK. I've spent the last 24 hrs learning all about the importance of selenium levels and am kicking myself for not knowing earlier. There's more about my mare on the hoof care and veterinary thread, but long story short - 3 yr old (now just 4), stifle injury, multiple sedations and an op, months of rehab, still not right, grade 2 ulcers, bloods a bit awry (high CK),second bloods a month later showed same anomaly, checked for selenium level after on a hunch after researching causes of high CK - horse is deficient at less than half what level should be.

I now have my reading glasses in my feed room (WHY is the print so small on the darn bags??) and am taking advice from a nutrition expert, and have started her on a Selenium/vit E supplement. This stuff matters.

 

[Lady Jane]

Unless you get everything analysed, nobody knows.......

 

[Kaylum]

Getting hay analysed is interesting. Different parts of the field can give different results so not sure what it achieves.

 

[Spirit7]

Well I've been caught out by feeding what I thought was a decent balancer, only to discover yesterday that my youngster has selenium deficiency. My horses have ad lib meadow hay plus 2 feeds of herbal chaff with added herbs, plus yea sac and brewers yeast... - I thought that was OK. I've spent the last 24 hrs learning all about the importance of selenium levels and am kicking myself for not knowing earlier. There's more about my mare on the hoof care and veterinary thread, but long story short - 3 yr old (now just 4), stifle injury, multiple sedations and an op, months of rehab, still not right, grade 2 ulcers, bloods a bit awry (high CK),second bloods a month later showed same anomaly, checked for selenium level after on a hunch after researching causes of high CK - horse is deficient at less than half what level should be.

I now have my reading glasses in my feed room (WHY is the print so small on the darn bags??) and am taking advice from a nutrition expert, and have started her on a Selenium/vit E supplement. This stuff matters.

I’m sorry about your issues but thanks for posting. I have a just 3 year old and am using FB young horse summer balancer, this was all I was going to feed with fast fibre but I spoke to Forage Plus and they advised loads of stuff (not their products) so I did a post and it seems they are wrong. Interestingly the grass pellets I was going / have started to add were choosen by me due to vit E additions and for being additive free. Not sure how that helps you but FP also advised me protien this year on testing is at an all time low in UK this year. Best luck

 

[Gloi]

A question based on my ignorance.
Can the vets take blood and analyse for any deficiencies. How much is it and is it worth doing?

 

[Cortez]

I have only ever fed balancers when analyses (of soil, grass, hay, and horses) has shown a deficiency. I used to run a stud farm in an area with high molybdenum and supplemented the whole herd - especially important with breeding and youngstock, but since moving have never needed to feed anything additional. I would say that most leisure horses are just fine without, and that supplementing willynilly can even lead to serious imbalances. A friend who is a vet says he has NEVER come across a vit/min deficiency*, and has seen a couple of horses that ended up being put down due to over-supplementation - especially of selenium.

*ETA except for a lack of copper on one stud where the general feeding regime was terrible anyway.

 

[stangs]

I wouldn't feed a balancer to a horse getting grass unless there was something wrong with it that you're trying to fix nutritionally - in my boy's case, it's primarily been sarcoids and poor hoof wall quality.

 

[SEL]

I'm in a very low selenium and copper area so supplement a Se, Cu, Zn mix from progressive earth as and when I remember (its not very palatable so tiny summer feeds are hard to hide it in).

I had a basic hay analysis last year to see what the NSC levels were and it was moderately high in protein but low ash which is basically low minerals - so I gave them a general purpose balancer over winter.

If you have local farmers ask them - they usually know what's missing

 

[ycbm]

A question based on my ignorance.
Can the vets take blood and analyse for any deficiencies. How much is it and is it worth doing?

I paid less than £50 lab fees, if I remember right, for copper, iron and vitamin E levels last year.

 

[paddy555]

Well I've been caught out by feeding what I thought was a decent balancer, only to discover yesterday that my youngster has selenium deficiency. My horses have ad lib meadow hay plus 2 feeds of herbal chaff with added herbs, plus yea sac and brewers yeast... - I thought that was OK. I've spent the last 24 hrs learning all about the importance of selenium levels and am kicking myself for not knowing earlier. There's more about my mare on the hoof care and veterinary thread, but long story short - 3 yr old (now just 4), stifle injury, multiple sedations and an op, months of rehab, still not right, grade 2 ulcers, bloods a bit awry (high CK),second bloods a month later showed same anomaly, checked for selenium level after on a hunch after researching causes of high CK - horse is deficient at less than half what level should be.

I now have my reading glasses in my feed room (WHY is the print so small on the darn bags??) and am taking advice from a nutrition expert, and have started her on a Selenium/vit E supplement. This stuff matters.

(sorry I haven't read your other posts recently so apologies if you have answered this)

it is the high CK point. I cannot see in your original diet vit E mentioned. Did you blood test for vit E levels as well as Se levels.

I am familiar with high and not reducing CK (not criollo)

 

[maya2008]

I feed mine multivitamins as powder, plus lysine as that is the deficient amino acid in UK forage.

 

[Landcruiser]

A question based on my ignorance.
Can the vets take blood and analyse for any deficiencies. How much is it and is it worth doing?

They would initially do a full general screen - you could ask at that point for an extra test for specifics if you had any particular concerns. A general screen won't show up particular deficiencies I don't think, but can give clues, like the high CK reading with my mare. The add on bits will vary in price - the selenium one I had was fairly cheap as they already had the blood. I'd say it's very well worth doing.

 

[NinjaPony]

I use a powder balancer from Progressive Earth as mine only gets a handful of plain chaff twice a day for medicine, plus soaked hay. As he is in a bare paddock muzzled, he also gets an extra vitamin E top up. I use the ‘laminitis’ balancer but there are plenty available. At least this way I know he’s not missing out on anything given how incredibly restricted his diet is.

 

[Landcruiser]

(sorry I haven't read your other posts recently so apologies if you have answered this)

it is the high CK point. I cannot see in your original diet vit E mentioned. Did you blood test for vit E levels as well as Se levels.

I am familiar with high and not reducing CK (not criollo)

Didn't test for Vit E but am supplementing it alongside the Se on vet advice. The Trinity Alpha Selenium contains both.
From what I have read, persistent high CK is always something to try to get to the bottom of because it can indicate so many potential problems, and also cause damage to liver/kidneys if it stays high

 

[Glitter's fun]

My horse (a 15hh cob gelding) is in light/medium work. He is fed ad-lib hay, gets grass during the day, and has a handful of chaff 2x per day for his supplements. I currently feed him a balancer however I am wondering if it is actually necessary. He used to get soaked hay which was the main reason for his balancer, but now his weight is good he is on dry ad-lib. Anyone here feed ad lib forage and not feed a balancer? Thanks!

With regard to grazing, as SEL says, you can ask around and find out if your soil is low in something, selenium or copper are common for example & your local farmers will certainly know that.

Bought in forage is another matter. We buy several tons of hay a year, always from the same merchant but we'd have to just about test every bale to be sure what's in it. Some of it comes from the east coast of Scotland, some from various sources in Yorkshire, one very dry year we got some lovely meadow hay that came from France. You can see from the strings & just the appearance of the hay itself, that some lorry-loads have more than one source in a single delivery.

If the majority of your boy's diet is bought in hay, I'd supplement if it was up to me. (But don't go mad- less is more! Too much can lead to as many problems as not enough.)

Sounds like he's doing well & you're happy with his weight & health. I wouldn't change anything.

 

[paddy555]

Didn't test for Vit E but am supplementing it alongside the Se on vet advice. The Trinity Alpha Selenium contains both.
From what I have read, persistent high CK is always something to try to get to the bottom of because it can indicate so many potential problems, and also cause damage to liver/kidneys if it stays high

one of mine had high CK. I dealt with it by high dose vit E. Made a remarkable difference. He stayed on a high dose for a long while and now he is on around 4000iu per day .Ombu is on 3000iu I find he needs a decent amount.

 

[Landcruiser]

one of mine had high CK. I dealt with it by high dose vit E. Made a remarkable difference. He stayed on a high dose for a long while and now he is on around 4000iu per day .Ombu is on 3000iu I find he needs a decent amount.

There may be a breed correlation - I came across this study while I was researching.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275351994_HEMATOLOGIC_AND_BIOCHEMICAL_PARAMETERS_IN_THREE_HIGH_PERFORMANCE_HORSE_BREEDS_FROM_SOUTHERN_BRAZIL_Parametros_hematologicos_e_bioquimicos_em_tres_racas_de_cavalos_de_alta_performance_do_Sul_do_Brasil

 

[paddy555]

There may be a breed correlation - I came across this study while I was researching.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275351994_HEMATOLOGIC_AND_BIOCHEMICAL_PARAMETERS_IN_THREE_HIGH_PERFORMANCE_HORSE_BREEDS_FROM_SOUTHERN_BRAZIL_Parametros_hematologicos_e_bioquimicos_em_tres_racas_de_cavalos_de_alta_performance_do_Sul_do_Brasil

that's interesting. Thanks for posting,

I think, with mine, (or at least with Ombu, Arrayan doesn't need anything more than basic vit E) part of the problem is grass. They are far too good doers and Ombu certainly has to have serious grass restriction. So he gets very low vit E from grass.

some horses of all breeds seem to definitely need above what is regarded as normal supplementation. I think those on track systems for example and I wonder how many on restricted grass due to lami have less than adequate levels and indeed if the levels considered acceptable in blood tests are correct.

 

[SEL]

that's interesting. Thanks for posting,

I think, with mine, (or at least with Ombu, Arrayan doesn't need anything more than basic vit E) part of the problem is grass. They are far too good doers and Ombu certainly has to have serious grass restriction. So he gets very low vit E from grass.

some horses of all breeds seem to definitely need above what is regarded as normal supplementation. I think those on track systems for example and I wonder how many on restricted grass due to lami have less than adequate levels and indeed if the levels considered acceptable in blood tests are correct.

One of the big tracks doesn't supplement - just leaves mineral licks around. I've often wondered if they tested the horses how their E levels would be. I have mineral licks in the shelter and they aren't really touched so I know the Appy wouldn't get sufficient E from them - & probably not Se or Copper either