Does no one back small ponies properly?!!

buddylove

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It is so frustrating looking for a small pony!! All I keep seeing are ponies that are "perfect" on the lead but a second pony off the lead. Surely if these ponies had been backed properly there would be little issue with them coming off the lead?
My section a has been backed by my kids riding instructor so she has completely bomb proofed him to small kids flapping about, getting on and off less than elegantly, and he is responsive to little people aids. He will be on the lead for a while until kids are a little bigger and then they will have lessons together so they can continue to improve and become partners.
I feel I owe it to the pony to give him the best start to his ridden career, but I honestly feel like I might be in the minority. Anything that is properly schooled off the lead is around £4k. I feel like I need to get another blank canvas and start from scratch - the joy of having twins 😓
 
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I do mine properly to an extent - the extent being I have no kids to child proof them but they all ride and are well schooled off the lead rein because they have never been ridden on the lead in their lives.

But no. The majority just have kids plonked on them and held on hoping for the best.
 

pennyturner

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I always break them to drive, then just hack them out with children on board. Never had a problem, in fact, if the child is rubbish, it's useful to be able to ride behind and give the pony verbal instructions.
 

WelshD

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I carefully chose the people who broke in my ponies and both can be ridden off the lead (though one is a bit cheeky!)

I find the trouble is not with those breaking them in its the lack of competent kids out there, people want that elusive FYFR pony but until those ponies are exposed to a child's riding they aren't going to become those ponies regardless of the schooling hours put in by others
 

buddylove

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I carefully chose the people who broke in my ponies and both can be ridden off the lead (though one is a bit cheeky!)

I find the trouble is not with those breaking them in its the lack of competent kids out there, people want that elusive FYFR pony but until those ponies are exposed to a child's riding they aren't going to become those ponies regardless of the schooling hours put in by others
I viewed a video today where the pony would not turn right!! Owner admitted it had only ever been broken to lead. What kind of future do ponies like that have if people are not willing to put in the work?!!
 

millikins

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I always break them to drive, then just hack them out with children on board. Never had a problem, in fact, if the child is rubbish, it's useful to be able to ride behind and give the pony verbal instructions.

Agree with you. Driving is wonderful for small ponies especially if you are too big to ride or school them. My shettie X driving pony won mini camp with a very small 7 year old rider, they were by far the smallest and youngest off lead rein combination and went safely round a huge field of little XC jumps, only "aid" needed were grass reins.
 

honetpot

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Trouble is backing and educating small ponies takes time, and then no one will pay more than £500 unless its ten and got a track record.
My daughters and I broke their ponies, trailed round the village, round the bridle ways, pony club, hunted it, got an older rider to teach leg aids. Two years giving it an education and then someone comes along and wants something for nothing. If it was a horse with all that work you get a return on your time, ponies no. I would rather keep them.
 

paddi22

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The only thing with small ponies is that good first ponies off the lead are so rare temperament-wise. I've seen so many super ponies backed properly, but a lot of them just turn into little cheeky ******* when they get a measure for who is on them. And as Honeypot says, the money isn't there to really put the effort into them, unless they are amazing show ponies or jumpers.
 

FfionWinnie

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Er not all ponies are suitable as first ponies regardless of how much time you spend training them. Just the same as not all horses are suitable for novices.

My daughter who is now 8 has with me overseeing and helping, backed 3 ponies. 2 are perfect first riddens, the other one is a lead rein and no amount of training would change that, indeed we had to do more with that one to make it a decent lead rein than we did with the other two to make them good safe first riddens. The first two are worth several k the last one a quarter of that. Thems the breaks! Would you prefer people weren't honest??
 

stencilface

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Agree with fw. I have a lightly backed 5yo, but don't have anyone small enough to take him on further. In fact have a 14yo and instructor mum coming to ride him today to see how he goes for her.

I need a lr/fr and yes it's proving elusive. I don't think the pony I have is that pony, he's just too switched on imho. I could be wrong (would be cheaper if I was!) but I also personally don't have the jockey and time to put into him to do that. I'm pretty sure he's a second pony!
 

buddylove

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Of course I am not I inferring that EVERY small pony is going to be suitable as a FR, but only a very small percentage of ponies that I am seeing for sale at the moment are being advertised as such. Surely, more of these ponies have potential to be FR? And I am fully aware of the cost involved in getting them backed and schooled, and neither do I want something for nothing.
But if these animals were 15.2hh people would not just be plonking someone on and hoping for the best, so why is it acceptable for a 12hh pony?
 

FfionWinnie

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Only a very small percentage of 15.2s for sale are capable of putting up with a very wobbly adult rider as well as being safe in all situations which is what one demands of a first ridden!

I can't actually believe what I'm reading. I've never plonked a kid on any pony and hoped for the best - however not all ponies are kids ponies. Not all kids ponies are paragons of virtue however well backed and trained they are. If the temperament isn't there you cannot make it. Some ponies are totally safe with a leader, but not without. Quite simple really!

If you truly believe what you are saying why not just buy one and back it yourself. If you put the time in you can't lose. Probably.
 

FfionWinnie

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You will see from my first post that I have done that with my section a, although i bought him as a foal, and he is turning out very nicely thank you.

Yes and I note he is still on the lead rein with your small children so you actually have no clue yet if he's a first ridden or not. Him being bombproof with your presumably very experienced riding instructor on him means absolutely nothing in terms of whether he's a first ridden since she's not a kid.
 

buddylove

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Because as a 5 year old he does not yet have the life experience, what I am saying is with correct training, exposure and temperament he has every chance of being a FR and those are the opportunities I will give him to secure him the best future. What I am lamenting is the lack of opportunity that seems to be afforded to small ponies. Clearly we all have different opinions and the world would be boring if we all agreed.
 

FfionWinnie

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It's actual life experience with kids and many many ponies of all different types and temperaments versus your opinion based on your experience of a single pony that is not actually yet at all proven!

Good ponies are like hens teeth, you want a good one, you pay for it - you want a cheap one, you pay for it in different ways.
 

ozpoz

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The OP is going about things the right way to make her pony suitable to be ridden by children off the lead.

I believe a true first ridden for tiny children is born not made. They will have a unique temperament that means they take things into their own hands in the best way - they will stop when they feel the rider has lost their balance and they won't move up a gear until they are sure that that is what the rider wants. Ponies like this really are worth their weight in gold for their kindness and confidence giving and for looking after their little jockeys.
 

Theocat

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If people aren't prepared to pay thousands - which is what's required to make it worthwhile putting in the hours of training required - why should people be expected to bother?

You say in your first post that the sort of ponies you'd like are around £4k. That doesn't sound excessive to me, given the costs of breeding, keep, and the hours invested in backing and training. Why are you surprised that the cheaper ones aren't trained in the way you'd like? Ponies eat less, but an hour of a person's time is worth the same whether the animal is 11hh or 17hh.
 

Shay

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It isn't always that the effort is not put into backing correctly either. Ponies are not robots and they do change over time with new owners. If the owner - and indeed the rider - is less experienced they will quickly learn that they can get out of work if they want to, snack on grass if they want to etc. No matter how well backed. Every horse - regardless of size - will work that out eventually and ponies tend to be quicker on the uptake IME.

Also - first riddens that are also paragons of virtue simply do not come on the sale market. I would actually question why a first ridden is advertised for sale at all. If it really is a good first ridden it will pass from family to family by word of mouth - either as sale or lease. There is absolutely no need to advertise these ponies - they have waiting lists!
 

Hallo2012

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agree with everything said that not all small ponies could be FYFR however they are backed and schooled but also just the act of having been a LR pony at any time can impact on their ridden work......................ive just bought a 2yo welsh colt (to produce for me to ride) and although he's only done 2 seasons in hand he is already totally set in his thinking of left bend, curl towards the handler, only being led from the left, not wanting to turn right.

this will all be ironed out with in hand work before i back him next year but it must be so hard for the ponies to chop and change between LR and FR jobs too.
 

lrw0250

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It's actual life experience with kids and many many ponies of all different types and temperaments versus your opinion based on your experience of a single pony that is not actually yet at all proven!

Good ponies are like hens teeth, you want a good one, you pay for it - you want a cheap one, you pay for it in different ways.

This! I have a well bred little Section a mare on loan after the owners son lost interest and she had not done anything in ages when I got her. She has unfortunately been treated very badly in the past and has the scars to show for it so is never going to be a show pony. To begin with I was too wary of her history and pussyfooted around her, which in turn led her to take the mickey. Some groundwork lessons for us both really helped prior to me popping our daughter on her to be led about for short periods to see how she was as her ridden history was patchy so I had no idea how well she had been backed. And for the last 2 years I have sent her on schooling livery to a friend who shows small ponies when we go on our summer holiday, 3 weeks first time, 2 weeks the second. There she gets properly schooled by a tiny adult and older kids and takes it in her stride. We now hack out on the lead rein no bother and my 4 year old can manage her fine in the school in walk off the lead rein and we are working on trot on the lead rein at the moment. Pony is an absolute saint ridden and will stand like a rock while she does wobbly round the worlds, scissors etc. However, she can still be cheeky to lead, so while ridden she is an angel I still do the majority of handling until my wee one is a bit bigger.

Pony is 16 now and probably worth pennies on the market but my daughter loves her, loves riding her and that is priceless to us. Plus she is palomino FW!!
 

zaminda

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As a small rider who backs ponies for people I will say the majority don't want to pay for an adult to back them, and will take any inexperienced free child going rather than putting their hand in their pocket. I understand why, its expensive, and you can't guarantee how a pony is going to turn out, but its frustrating when they then come to you for help when pony has had someone off.
Good ponies are seriously hard to find, which is why the lovely project I bought may not be going anywhere, as he could prove to be irreplaceable.
 

honetpot

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Because as a 5 year old he does not yet have the life experience, what I am saying is with correct training, exposure and temperament he has every chance of being a FR and those are the opportunities I will give him to secure him the best future. What I am lamenting is the lack of opportunity that seems to be afforded to small ponies. Clearly we all have different opinions and the world would be boring if we all agreed.
I have been in your position, two children and little money to buy the made pony, and to be honest I bought other peoples cast offs,just buying for temperament, when they are lead rein you have no idea how they are going to be off.
Like said in a previous post we spent hours walking round the village, the line getting longer an the child using their voice because their legs are usually totally ineffective. When we hacking it lead to short spells off LR in a controlled way all the time the child is becoming a better rider and the pony is learning the childs aids.
I am not a great fan of adults training small ponies, it sometimes works but they have greater strength and the leg aids are in a different place. I sent them away to learn skills that my children were not capable of teaching them, they come back more off the leg, which you often do not want for small children and ponies are not stupid they soon twig that they can sidle out. You are far better off making it so what the child wants the pony to do is the easiest thing for the pony to do and enjoyable, our ponies hunted at four if only on LR.
This all takes time but its wonderful when they both get it, and to see a child on a pony they have basically trained themselves from the age of about six is wonderful as they do PC and compete. Its just awful when they get too big for them.
 

buddylove

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I have been in your position, two children and little money to buy the made pony, and to be honest I bought other peoples cast offs,just buying for temperament, when they are lead rein you have no idea how they are going to be off.
Like said in a previous post we spent hours walking round the village, the line getting longer an the child using their voice because their legs are usually totally ineffective. When we hacking it lead to short spells off LR in a controlled way all the time the child is becoming a better rider and the pony is learning the childs aids.
I am not a great fan of adults training small ponies, it sometimes works but they have greater strength and the leg aids are in a different place. I sent them away to learn skills that my children were not capable of teaching them, they come back more off the leg, which you often do not want for small children and ponies are not stupid they soon twig that they can sidle out. You are far better off making it so what the child wants the pony to do is the easiest thing for the pony to do and enjoyable, our ponies hunted at four if only on LR.
This all takes time but its wonderful when they both get it, and to see a child on a pony they have basically trained themselves from the age of about six is wonderful as they do PC and compete. Its just awful when they get too big for them.
I think this is what we will end up doing. It's just finding something with the right temperament. Having had my pony from a foal I know he has a fab temperament, and the other foal I bought at the same time was too sharp and was given to a friend for her older child. I know need to find a replica (and hopefully not another grey)!!
 

Orangehorse

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Agree with everything said really. I am very interested as I may well be looking for that perfect pony in the not too distant future.

I know there are some excellent Welsh ponies, but the ones I have come across have been little sh...ts, who would behave with an adult rider but been naughty with small riders, so a kind and co-operative temperament is vital. There are some people advertising ponies who must have a riding school or similar who break in and work the ponies and then advertise for sale, but it depends on whether you live close to them or not.

I know someone who bought a good pony from somewhere like that. The ponies were from the market so very cheap, it gave the staff something to do during the quieter winter months and then the ponies had a good education and could be sold as reasonably schooled.
 

honetpot

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This is basically the issue. How many adults, let alone good riders, do you know that could ride and want to ride a 12 hand pony?
The three people I have sent ponies away to over the years usually are M&M showing professionals, small women. It costs almost as much as if they were a horse. So I try and get the pony going before it goes and then they spend about four weeks with them.
Its not guaranteed as the last one I sent was foot perfect when away, but had obviously twigged that if he turned quickly the child slid out the side door. So now I have a very pretty small pony, who is lovely for a child to handle but not going to be a FR. So the 'wastage' is high.
Our first FR was bought from a family home, nothing to look at, had separation anxiety but you could predict when he was going to be 'naughty', he wasn't really he was just being a pony. He taught both my children to ride, and many others but he was not perfect. Now everyone wants the perfect, never does anything pony, which is completely unrealistic.
If the horse management skills of the general population have gone down, its even worse for ponies. I find the trick is heading off trouble. A child can not school a pony until they are mentally and physically capable, so you avoid situations where the pony is likely to have a choice to take the, 'line of least resistance', which is usually the exact opposite of what the child wants it to do. Ponies hate repetition, even the kindest pony gets fed up and starts to say ,'No' after its done the same thing about 10 times if its work and mined were schooled on hacks, and probably only saw a school at a PC rally.
 

MotherOfChickens

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He taught both my children to ride, and many others but he was not perfect. Now everyone wants the perfect, never does anything pony, which is completely unrealistic.
If the horse management skills of the general population have gone down, its even worse for ponies. I find the trick is heading off trouble. A child can not school a pony until they are mentally and physically capable, so you avoid situations where the pony is likely to have a choice to take the, 'line of least resistance', which is usually the exact opposite of what the child wants it to do. Ponies hate repetition, even the kindest pony gets fed up and starts to say ,'No' after its done the same thing about 10 times if its work and mined were schooled on hacks, and probably only saw a school at a PC rally.

great post-(italics mine!). people have forgotten how to manage ponies-ponies mostly loathe going round in circles for no good reason (and there is never a good reason imo).
 

WelshD

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Lets not forget that there is a massive gap between backing and being the ideal off-the-lead childs pony

I suppose on average ponies are sent for breaking for 6 weeks, that covers everything from groundwork to going well in three paces on each rein

That alone is not going to set them up to be a first ridden pony hence how so many fall in to being lead rein or second ponies

Unless you leave your pony with the breaker for six months or more then you are at the mercy of finding competent small riders or using a child and accepting there will be a fair degree of trial and error some of which will not shine the pony in the best light

I sent a 12.2 for backing a year ago, she had 12 weeks with a professional, came home and was ridden by a child, she is a saint of a pony but naturally things regressed a bit as the rider was just seven so a bit unbalanced and not clear with the aids all the time, the pony then went for another 12 weeks to a different professional

I could have let them bumble along and hope the pony came out the other end well rounded but chose not to

All of that training has set me back around £4K

Thats a hell of an investment to have in a pony and most people simply wont spend that

I could sell the pony now as a first ridden but alas she is too tall for most first ridden classes!
 
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