Does this look like a sick pony to you?

[BBP]

No?

Doesn't to me either. Blood test results show liver enzymes have not improved over the last 5 weeks of 'rest'. I hadn't got my hopes up, but it would have been nice to see something positive.

Pony and I are desperate to get back to proper work! Given lack of clinical signs and the fact that bile acids are normal the vet is happy for us to do non-strenuous work and just keep monitoring the levels to see how we go. He isn't the type to take kindly to biopsies etc and at this point I'd rather not stress him.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

No, if anything he looks to be carrying rather too much condition. I assume though that you had the liver enzymes tested for a reason?

 

[doriangrey]

No?

Doesn't to me either. Blood test results show liver enzymes have not improved over the last 5 weeks of 'rest'. I hadn't got my hopes up, but it would have been nice to see something positive.

Pony and I are desperate to get back to proper work! Given lack of clinical signs and the fact that bile acids are normal the vet is happy for us to do non-strenuous work and just keep monitoring the levels to see how we go. He isn't the type to take kindly to biopsies etc and at this point I'd rather not stress him.

My FIL had raised liver enzymes a few years ago and no reason could be found for it (he's 75 now btw and human!). Maybe, it's the way he is? Keep monitoring for your own piece of mind that's all He is a beautiful boy (your pony not FIL)!

 

[BBP]

No, if anything he looks to be carrying rather too much condition. I assume though that you had the liver enzymes tested for a reason?

I agree, he breathes calories, so a 5 week rest has not done me any favours, little fatty that he is. He is not impressed with his diet. The enzyme test was part of a long saga. Lost little pony over the road to acute liver failure earlier in the year, it was all over within an hour, we had no idea there was anything wrong. So we got her field buddy tested when vet was next out. This showed massively elevated GGT and other liver enzymes as well as abnormal bile. That pony is, 5 months later, still undergoing steroids/antibiotics/biopsies and rest.

My ponies were tested in May as they are so close and we thought better safe than sorry. All three were above normal, although not massive so we just monitored. In July two had improved and mine had doubled. We decided to rest him to see if dropping his workload gave it a chance to recover. 5 weeks later we retested again and no improvement. It's all such a mystery. I am hearing of more and more horses with elevated levels. the difficulty is, having never had him blood tested for anything prior to this I have no idea if his base level is naturally a little high or if this is really high for him.

 

[glenruby]

So have you actually treated him yet? Or put him on anti oxidants? Also what sort if figures are we talking - how close to normal?

 

[Silverfire]

Have you tried treating for liverfluke?

 

[BBP]

So have you actually treated him yet? Or put him on anti oxidants? Also what sort if figures are we talking - how close to normal?

GGT 184 (normal up to 50) (other pony is 900), AST 800 (should be less than 500). We are all still learning a lot about this. The others came down with rest so we decided to try that first. He has had no treatment other than milk thistle. Without knowing the cause it's hard to opt for treatment. We are waiting for latest biopsy results for the other pony to see what they came up with. My vets will then liase with other ponys vets to see if anything presented that might give us an idea of what to look for before we proceed further. In mean time they are happy for me to take him for a hack and do a little more gentle work than he has been to keep him happy. He is on milk thistle but that is it. Any other peoples knowledge would be appreciated, there is so much to learn about all this.

 

[BBP]

Have you tried treating for liverfluke?

I thought about fluke as the grazing was so wet last year and through to this one but they said he would be jaundiced with it. I might push the issue again, there has certainly been time for it to travel through his system to be detectable. If it is just the sake of paying for a lab test on manure I would rather get it done.

 

[Silverfire]

You can't test for fluke eggs at this time of year. Ive treated most of my horses with fasinex for fluke because of weight loss (mostly ribby some with big bellys). They are on wet grazing which had sheep on years ago who had liverfluke, also they were on wet haylage which came from a sheep farm with liverfluke. Its six weeks since they were treated and there is some improvement in all of them. Three horses were blood tested and all three were anemic, all negative worm counts. All three got foals at foot and lost weight soon after foaling which is unusual for them.

 

[Elvis]

The only thing that worked to get my boys liver enzymes down was steroids (although my boy was more like your friends horse, ie it wasn't just the enzymes that were off) I then put him on Restore and Immuplus by Global herbs to help prevent the bloods from changing. I can't be sure that they have helped but his bloods have remained normal since. I might be worth trying those. We never found the cause of my boy's liver problems, the vets say it could have been viral hepatitus, poisoning, or toxins from hay/grass. I hope this is resolved soon, I do wonder if something else on a bigger scale is happening, my vets said they had never seen so many cases of liver conditions before, especially with no obvious cause...

 

[BBP]

Thanks for that. He isn't showing any signs of anaemia (rest of blood work normal) or weightloss. No loss of appetite. No lethargy. Coat is shiny. The other pony is the same. Little one we lost did show weight loss and anaemia. Current thinking on those two is its bacterial cause and may have pushed littleun over the edge if her liver was ragwort damaged from previous home. I will mention fluke again to vets though

 

[BBP]

The only thing that worked to get my boys liver enzymes down was steroids (although my boy was more like your friends horse, ie it wasn't just the enzymes that were off) I then put him on Restore and Immuplus by Global herbs to help prevent the bloods from changing. I can't be sure that they have helped but his bloods have remained normal since. I might be worth trying those. We never found the cause of my boy's liver problems, the vets say it could have been viral hepatitus, poisoning, or toxins from hay/grass. I hope this is resolved soon, I do wonder if something else on a bigger scale is happening, my vets said they had never seen so many cases of liver conditions before, especially with no obvious cause...

That's what both our vets have said too. I've overheard people at shows mention it, a girl at work today said one of her liveries had blood transfusions for it. It's so tempting to blame the wet year, my field has never been poached and under standing water like last year.

 

[Tinypony]

I have a pony in a similar situation. She escaped the field into woodland and we think ate something she shouldn't have done. Like yours she looks pretty good, her coat is shiny and she's pretty happy. I think she gets tired easily and probably isn't ready to ride yet. She had a miraculous reduction in bile results from 127 to 17 after a 3 week interval. Other results are improving. I used Restore, Milk Thistle, wilted nettles and clivers and a remedy from a holistic vet. Took linseed out of her diet. I decided against steriods due to the risk of lammi. Fingers crossed all round eh?

 

[Elvis]

Yes it's very odd. Another horse on my yard also showed raised liver enzymes, but received no turn out and was on haylage, mine was getting very little turn out (awful fields) and hay and we had different suppliers for hay, bedding etc. Due to the lack of turnout, I can't imagine that being the problem for my boy, however I do think the hay could be to blame, we'd had an awful summer and I just wonder if the toxins were higher than usual because of that. And just to add, although it may mean nothing, both mine and the other girls horse are young. No other horses showed signs of liver problems.

 

[Sugarplum Furry]

My gelding suffered rapid weight loss in Sept 2012. The blood tests showed his GGT was 640. He had a liver biopsy, the results showed no abnormalities, it wasn't ragwort poisoning, liver fluke or a virus. He looked dreadful, he'd gone from being a four square chunky arab to a hat rack in 6 weeks, despite that his appetite was normal and he was bright eyed and energetic. I moved him to a different yard along with my other three horses as the facilities were better. Oddly enough, the other three hadn't been affected by whatever it was even though they'd been on the same grazing, hay and feed. It's taken 10 months and massive steroid doses for him to recover, he's off the steroids now and his GGT is back to normal levels. The vets are still trying to work out what caused his decline, the latest theory is that it was something to do with mycotoxins in the grass, and they also say they've seen a significant rise in horses with this mysterious liver condition.

 

[Montyforever]

My mare had liver issues earlier in the year. She had an impaction colic and when bloods were run to look for a cause they found high liver enzymes, she had been, unable to keep weight on and a change of character and was jumpy and spooky which was very unlike her!! I put her on milk thistle and vets monitored her for a few months. The enzymes didnt drop for a few weeks but then showed a slight improvement and she put the weight back on and she was alot more herself so vets said to judge her by the outside rather than keep stressing her out with blood tests. Ive kept her on the milk thistle and shes looking better than ever but its still a niggly worry at the back of my mind that she could still have a problem there so i know how you feel!

 

[Elvis]

I really hope someone does some research into these liver issues, I must admit I've been quite worried since Elvis was unwell, he's been having bloods taken every few months, and will stay on the Restore and Immuplus for a while, and then have them for one month at every change of season as suggested by Global Herbs.

(I wouldn't do the bloods regularly if he was distressed by them, but as it is he loves the vet and barely notices when she takes blood)

 

[BBP]

There are just so many reports of liver issues coming out now, I don't know if it's just that I'm more aware now as it actually affects me. But like you Elvis I hope more is done. I have just put mine onto Restore to add to the milk thistle he has been on for 6 weeks. Im lucky that the vet and needles don't bother him one bit, so I can afford to keep a regular check on how different things are affecting him. I took him for a 30 min hack yesterday and he was so excited to be out, as soon as his bridle was on he dragged me to the gate and bounced the whole way. Clearly he doesn't know he is poorly so I'm going to keep it a secret from him!