Does your livery stable limit who you can get lessons from?

Shadowdancing

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I'm trying to make sense of this one so bear with me. I part livery at a riding school facility. Last year we had a couple of visiting instructors- quite advanced- I took lessons with. This year no one has visited but when a fellow livery booked a (different) instructor to visit she was advised she could not use him and in fact that she would have to lesson with the school instructors.. I'm getting this information third hand so all I can say is insurance was quoted as the issue...

Would the riding school insurance prohibit an external instructor from coming or do you think its more likely to be an issue with the visiting instructors insurance...?

This has thrown me... I'm not interested in lessoning with the resident instructors. They just seem to operate at quite a basic level (I've listened to lessons). I'm wondering what I'll do in future. Anyone had a similar experience?
 

Theocat

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If there are pro instructors resident on the yard, it's very common to forbid others from coming on. It's usually financial, but if the yard doesn't know an instructor I can see how questions of competency / liability might arise in the event of an accident.
 

Tyssandi

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I know some do have rules on outside instructors, I personally don't stop anyone from having who ever they want, You get a rapport with an instructor and it can be very hard to relate/get on with another
 

be positive

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I suspect it has more to do with loss of income, a visiting instructor using the facilities and the YO not benefiting in any way than an insurance issue, as long as the instructor has insurance there should be no problem but the RS gains nothing, if things are tight they will want liveries using on site instructors.
Maybe get together a group of liveries and offer to run a clinic where everyone pays a bit towards using the arena or offer a small amount to bring in an instructor of your choice so you can have exclusive use of the arena for the set time, usually one reason for keeping your horse on a yard is to take advantage of the resident trainer being there to teach without having to travel the horse.
 

Llewellyn

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I have seen this at a livery yard my mum was on years ago. It was run by an instructor who wouldn't let anyone else teach, even liveries giving other liveries suggestions was frowned on. Although she did occasionally arrange clinics with external instructors but only the ones she chose. She was an awful instructor as well I mean truely awful not just basic.
Most people boxed out for lessons and a very brave few hired the school at the going rate and argued they could do what they liked on their time.
Any instructor should have their own insurance and I presume you have yours so unless they're worried about their property being damaged and not covered (but I presume you can normally ride in there unsupervised) I doubt insurance is the reason.
 

alice1234

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On my yard there is no limit, the YO does lessons but there are lots of different instructors who come and give different liveries lessons.
 

hanny93

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I part loaned at a yard where the YO (completely unhorsey-didn't know what someone meant when they said hoof..) completely refused to allow any instructor on the yard. Reason?

'Why should anyone else make money off my business?' 😂
 

Shadowdancing

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Thanks all... worst case scenario I can pop horse on box and go to a trainer but I'm definitely a bit taken aback at this turn of events... Yes I can see that there's an income stream there for the instructors and owners but as I say several of the liveries have 20+ years in the saddle, compete regularly and would look to lesson with more advanced specialist coaches than those in residence. Some have had lessons with the same instructor for years.
 

Flicker

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At our yard you can have lessons with whoever you like. Although on one occasion a couple of us complained that a visiting instructor was being over zealous with the whip while riding a livery's young horse and left bloody spur marks on her flank. YM banned the instructor and suggested very strongly to the livery that they may wish to choose a trainer with a better attitude.
 

Summer pudding

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I've recently moved yards and this was one of the issues that prompted the move. One of the liveries, insured and qualified, was told they couldn't give me or any other liveries lessons.We were told we must use the resident teacher as we were taking business away from him.... It was a big yard and if all the liveries had wanted lessons with him, he wouldn't have slept. Visiting teachers continued to come to the yard but it could be atmospheric and Made things uncomfortable. My current small yard has a brilliant manager can teache to a high level, but welcomes all other teachers....not every teacher gets on with every pupil so it's a no brainer isn't it?
 
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junglefairy

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I think it's quite common to have restrictions on who can teach. I've always assumed it's a financial thing rather than insurance.

A very irritating practise imo, if you're any good at teaching then liveries will use you anyway, no need to have such restrictions.
 

FfionWinnie

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It's not about insurance it's about money. They would be better to impose a charge for using the school for an outside instructor than this underhand way of (they think) boosting their income.
 

Cowpony

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Its worth having a chat with the riding school about what you want to learn. You may find that one of the instructors is able to teach you and is currently bored out of her mind teaching basic stuff to beginners. And if they can't teach at the level you want that gives you the opportunity to discuss somebody coming in. Its not unreasonable to ask you to pay arena hire though. Its like people taking their own wine to a restaurant and having to pay corkage. Every person who brings in an outside instructor is a pupil lost for the riding school. If they have any business sense they will get in a higher level freelance instructor if they can see there is a demand.

I livery on a riding school and I'm lucky that my instructor is well able to teach at the level I need. She often arranges clinics with other coaches, but we have to pay the coach and arena hire to the riding school.
 
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ROMANY 1959

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In 2010 we liveried at a riding school, and outside instructors were not welcome , this was due to the in house ones wanting the payments for private lessons..
 

Goldenstar

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I think it's quite common to have restrictions on who can teach. I've always assumed it's a financial thing rather than insurance.

A very irritating practise imo, if you're any good at teaching then liveries will use you anyway, no need to have such restrictions.

And it's about hassle and closing the school to other liverys .
 

Greylegs

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It's not about insurance it's about money. They would be better to impose a charge for using the school for an outside instructor than this underhand way of (they think) boosting their income.

My old yard had this policy. You could use your own instructor if you wanted to, but had to pay the YO a tenner for the privilege. But, to be fair, this did also give you exclusive use of the indoor school for your lesson (if you remembered to pre-book it) so no-one really minded. Except that, if you're already paying a visiting instructor a fair whack for your lesson, the extra ten pounds made it expensive.
 

ihatework

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It's not routine, yet it's also not uncommon - especially on a yard where the bulk of income is made from teaching.

I've only been livery on one yard that had rules about this, the yard had a riding school element to it. You could have an external instructor but you had to book a school at private usage rates.
 

Skewbaldbow

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My last and current yard were like this. Last one was a riding school and they only allowed you to use their instructors, but they did arrange monthly SJ and Dressage clinics with two outside trainers (the SJ I ended up going to his yard as well for extra lessons).

Current yard also can be a bit funny about bringing in outside instructors as YO does teach (and also about you going away to one!). I can box up and go to other instructors but my problem here in NI is finding a decent SJ trainer with access to their own yard!

I think for both it comes down to loss of income for them really... I think for a lot of livery yards it is pretty standard practice when there is someone on site who teaches as well
 

Annieryan

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The yard ive been on for years does not allow outside instructors, there reason being insurance which is a load of rubbish. The instructor that is based on the yard is very knowlagable but if you have a lesson the majority of it would be spent gossiping about everyone else!
 

Pedantic

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I prefer people to be straight, it's their yard so fine they don't want others encroaching, just don't lie about it with whiney ass oh it's an insurance issue excuse's.

NOLA
 

LeannePip

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Its unfortunate but i can understand since as a riding school, their main income is teaching!

This is one of my main factors when looking for a yard - we are very lucky in that we can have outside instructors FOC and in the summer we can book the school for sole use as long as notice is given, in the winter its a bit more difficult so you can only book for sole use in the day time Mon-Fri as most people ride in the evenings and when its dark the school is their only option. You can still have lessons but you may have to share the school, although saying that everyone is very considerate and aslong as you give notce/ pop a post on our FB group people will leave you to it if you are having a lesson and wait till you are done!
 

Shadowdancing

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I hope it won't be a massive issue as I don't lesson that frequently, but I always enjoy having a session with advanced coaches that visit and thoroughly enjoyed the last lot of lessons. I am going to ask the person who arranged them if they've been told they can't come back. I hope not! It was never raised when I moved here because these sessions were ongoing. I just don't know what's happened, suppose we're all under each others' feet more at the moment because of the winter and dark nights...

I do object to paying to use the arena for an instructor, tho I will if that's the only way, but I'd sooner go somewhere to hire a nice indoor! I think I'm paying the most expensive fees in my area. Fine, it's a nice facility, but extras are not ideal.

If I was doing it all the time I'd understand. Once a month was my usual when I was last in training and it seems a little rubbish to be paying extra for that...

The instructors we have... I'd clash like mad with one I know. Looks fresh out of school. Never seen her get on a horse, won't allow horses to relax on a long rein before, during or after lessons and absolutely chewed one kid out for getting on the wrong side of a horse which seemed excessive... personally I get on whatever side comes first and would probably just annoy her to death by doing so (done my hip flexibility wonders that policy has)!!
 

milliepops

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Its unfortunate but i can understand since as a riding school, their main income is teaching!

This is one of my main factors when looking for a yard - we are very lucky in that we can have outside instructors FOC and in the summer we can book the school for sole use as long as notice is given, in the winter its a bit more difficult so you can only book for sole use in the day time Mon-Fri as most people ride in the evenings and when its dark the school is their only option. You can still have lessons but you may have to share the school, although saying that everyone is very considerate and aslong as you give notce/ pop a post on our FB group people will leave you to it if you are having a lesson and wait till you are done!


that sounds like a very sensible arrangement! My pet hate is finding the school booked up before or after work at this time of year.
 

Sussexbythesea

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I moved yards mainly because of this policy. I wanted a specific dressage trainer not the all rounder teacher. Travelling every weekend to her yard became a bit of a pain. It wasn't a riding school at the time and the resident teacher wasn't even an employee but the livery YO did take a cut I believe.
 

Micropony

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At my yard the visiting trainer is charged a tenner to teach on the yard. Assume it is passed on to clients! Two YOs also teach to a good standard, one SJ, one dressage. Their point I think is pretty straightforward: if someone else is making money from use of their facilities they want a cut. Fair enough really, although personally I think a tenner is a bit steep as it doesn't really guarantee you exclusive use of the school- people will try to stay out of your way but if the weather is foul or the outdoor is flooded they don't really have much choice!

Have known one yard that out and out banned outside trainers. YO taught, but was fearsomely expensive and although good, in my view overpriced.

It would definitely be something I asked about before choosing a yard.
 

charterline

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If you wouldn't be having a lesson with onsite instructors, and the school is not normally hired out, then it's not really loss of income?
 

pepsimaxrock

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Insurance is a quick and easy response but its sometimes a reasonable one. The YO will not want claims against the yard if an idiot teacher causes someone to fall off and seriously injure themselves.
I livery on a competition yard that doesnt have a riding school. The YO teaches occasionally but is so busy its hard to get a lesson from her sadly. She is a brilliant teacher.
So we can use any visiting instructor who's having a 'clinic'. Or hire the competition arena ourselves and have an insured instructor visit (there are four arenas, 3 x indoor). If we wanted a lesson in one of the other arenas with a visitng instructor we would also have to pay to ensure exclusive use but nobody does as the competition arena is so fab.
 

Sparemare

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I can understand it if the yard owner relies on teaching to supplement their income. The same as not allowing other people to provide services for liveries I suppose.
 

jules9203

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I run a livery yard and teach. However all the liveries can have outside instructors if they want and I also arrange clinics with outside trainers. However there is a charge for an instructor using my school. Its nothing to do with loss of my income but the fact that I have put in the school, looked after the surface and the school is privately booked for that time. It means that someone else is making a living from my hard work and I cannot use the school for my horses, or the other liveries, during that time.
 
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