Does your YO/keeper of your horse have written permission to PTS?

[Rowreach]

Having been a YO for a lot of years, it was one incident in particular that made me add this into my T&Cs, (ets this was about 30 years ago), not just that I could call the vet and approve treatment for client's horses in the event that I could not contact them or they were not present, but also that I could make an end of life decision. This involved detailed discussions as to what insurance cover they had for the horse and what treatments they would want the horse to have (colic surgery, for instance, is not something I would consider because the nearest hospital to us would be a 2 hour drive at a minimum, and more if you were going very steadily).

Now that I have my own two at livery - one is older retired, the other fairly young - I've provided my YO with written permission to act along with the vet in making these decisions if I'm not there and cannot be contacted. The reality is that I am usually within 20 minutes of the yard and surgically attached to my phone, but I do go away with work and could easily be several hours away, with my phone turned off. In these days of blame and litigation, I would never forgive myself if either of mine suffered unnecessarily because a YO couldn't contact me.

 

[HashRouge]

The vets have her name and know that she has permission to authorise any treatment needed (including PTS).

 

[dogatemysalad]

Yes, everyime I travel abroad, I leave written consent for my trusted YO to consent to emergency treatment and euthanasia. I remember a very tragic case, where a horse with grass sickness suffered because the vet didn't have consent and gave treatment until the owner returned a few days later, because the YO and vet, on balance, thought the owner would have been devastated if they didnt try. The horse was then euthanized, when had the owner been present, the decision would have been made earlier.

 

[maya2008]

Keeper of horses is me…but my husband can make decisions with vets etc if I am not around. We have had discussions about exactly how far we would go depending on which horse/pony and other conditions, age etc. Surgery for us would only be 20min away and we have a horsebox. Most of them are self insured so we can always make decisions without having to wait to contact insurance (been there, done that, didn’t appreciate waiting when my yearly premium was more than the cost of the surgery, yet I didn’t have the spare cash to pay for it myself because I was paying so much in insurance).

 

[Quigleyandme]

When I was at livery my vet practice held my written permission for the yard owner to act on my behalf including PTS. We used to go overseas for two weeks twice a year so it was vital there would be no obstacles to my horse receiving the attention he needed.

 

[SEL]

Last time we were away for any length of time I emailed the vets to let them know and did a quick bullet point "in case of emergency" for each horse. OH knows for instance the Appy can't do extended box rest so no major surgery but it would destroy him making that decision.

I had a young colt die in my arms a number of years ago when the vets couldn't get hold of the owner. Couldn't do that to one of mine.

 

[ycbm]

Yes I have just left instructions for that for while we are away this weekend, and my vet has a standing instruction to euthanase if there is something so serious that they cannot stabilise him until they can get hold of me.
.

 

[JFTDWS]

I wouldn't trust my current YO to judge when to put a fly down. I'd barely trust him to make a cup of tea going by recent experience! The YM would call the vet in my absence, but I'm never away and I'm never uncontactable, other than when I'm driving, and even then if she called me I'd pull over and call back at the first opportunity. Weirdly we were talking about just this earlier today and she was saying how infuriating it is that some liveries go off grid without letting her know and giving her consent to deal with these issues in an emergency.

My phone is never turned off, but the YM has other contact numbers for me, email address, facebook etc, so no issues contacting me by other means if my phone were to break unexpectedly.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Very good point.

I have standing written vet's instructions for all my 3 re authorising emergency PTS in my absence.

None of this nonsense re a terminally suffering animal being kept alive pending the arrival of the owner to 'say goodbye' to it. Just get the job done.

ETA Being self insured makes this much more straightforward. No ins co rules to navigate.

 

[Rowreach]

It's good to see people have thought about this. I hope this thread will give people a nudge if it's something they haven't considered before. As a YO who was unable to contact an owner (admittedly this was before everyone had mobiles although he did, but he was working abroad at the time) and taking the decision along with the vet on his behalf, and having to deal with the fallout, I really do recommend people having the conversation and putting something in writing.

 

[Chianti]

This is very strange as I was only thinking about this yesterday. I've sent a letter to my vet to inform them that pony is to be PTS if I go under a bus and don't come out but haven't covered this. I live miles away so it's quite possible YO would have to make the decision. I need to talk to her.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

As a YO, when I did have liveries I always requested this info, plus also choice method for pts if absolutely necessary for humane reasons.

When I am absent from my yard (occasional hol) then I message vet practice with the name of person doing mine plus also my most local brother and horsey sil, plus also permission for vets to treat in my absence, plus also the attending vet to pts if absolutely necessary. In the case of one I add that if she has injury or illness that cannot be treated successfully at the yard, then pony must be pts.

ETA, I too self insure, so no complication to add to any mix.

 

[Spottyappy]

aAlso, an important point to consider imho, is to tell your vet who you authorirse, and what extent you would be happy to pay up to.
my vets wanted this in writing. We have several trusted friends and family on this list, in the event the ones in care of the animals if we are away, can not be contacted.
I own my yard, and it’s just myself and daughter, but we have sharers plus a groom, so these also had to be noted.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I no longer have a horse but I wrote a letter which I sent to vet, family member and yo.

It stated how I gave them permission to PTS in the event I wasn't contactable

It stated he was to be PTS in the event he needed colic surgery

It stated how I wanted him PTS (injection) and the disposal method I wanted (group cremation)

 

[HashRouge]

Very good point.

I have standing written vet's instructions for all my 3 re authorising emergency PTS in my absence.

None of this nonsense re a terminally suffering animal being kept alive pending the arrival of the owner to 'say goodbye' to it. Just get the job done.

ETA Being self insured makes this much more straightforward. No ins co rules to navigate.

Yes this was my way of thinking - I don't want either of my two hanging around with a broken leg or terrible colic because no-one can contact me and they think I'd want to say goodbye. I meant, ideally I would, but not if my horses were suffering. When I'm teaching I always have my phone on silent, so it's conceivable I could go several hours without picking up a call.

 

[Lady Jane]

Yes - vets have it in writing and YO are aware - and wish everyone did this.

 

[Winters100]

Yes, my vet has written (and notarised) permission to treat or euthanise if I cannot be reached, acting in the best interests of the animal, along with confirmation that I will accept the cost. In the event that my own vet could not be reached YO, or person that he nominates, also have permission to authorize any other vet to give medical treatment or euthanise.

Same with my dogs, vets have permission, if we are all away we have someone stay with them, and we always leave a written permission for them to act according to the best interests of the animals just in case our own vet could not be reached, along with a confirmation that we agree to be liable for any costs.

Thank you for raising this OP as it is incredibly important.

 

[Winters100]

It stated how I wanted him PTS (injection) and the disposal method I wanted (group cremation)

This is a really good point, and one I had not thought about. I shall amend my papers to clarify.

I should have thought before, because a friend of mine found himself in a difficult situation just last summer. He was staying in the house of another friend, looking after their various animals, including a much loved Irish Wolfhound. The dog died of a heartattack, it was very sudden, but he was an old dog. My friend was then left with the question of what to do, and as the owners were on a riding holiday somewhere remote they could not be reached. We could not decide whether they would want the dog buried on the property or cremated, and if cremated individual or group. In the end I managed to get the company who cremated my dog to pick the dog up, but keep him in their freezer pending the return of the owner, but it was stressful for everyone, especially as it was summer, so an immediate decision was necessary.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

This is an important issue and something which everyone needs to think about. I have made other people on the yard (which I am YO of) aware of my wishes should "something happen" as I would wish mine to be PTS by gun not sedated, as she fights it terribly.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

No as my YO is a farmer. He’s got enough to be responsible for and wouldn’t know anything about horses anyway.

My parents have the authority to approve and PTS, my partner and my best friend have the authority to approve treatment but not PTS but it is a ladder system. Unless I’m abroad I’m contactable and only 15/20mins from the yard.

 

[DSB]

I have "guardianship"of a friends dog,all legally done,in case something happens and they can't be contacted.

 

[Pippity]

I'll probably be out of contact for a week or two (epic holiday), so I contacted my vet a few days ago to confirm that the YO and the two yard staff had authority to make decisions re Blue. I've done the same with my farrier. I do need to go into more detail with the YO/staff as to what decisions I'd want made.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I have a horse who lives with my neighbour. She has permission but not in writing to call my vet and between them make any urgent decisions if I’m not contactable. However even if my phones on silent I check it a lot and am usually local.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Our YO has written permission to get treatment for our horses if we are not available. She would also have permission to put to sleep.

 

[only_me]

Person who checks on horse when I am away would know when to PTS if unable to contact me. Vet would also probably ring me but is very sensible and I trust his judgement completely. It’s something I had to consider a few months ago as it looked like the idiot has potentially broken something and box Rest for an extended period of time would not be in his best interests. Thankfully it wasn’t the time however!

as another nudge but from a human perspective, those who have elderly relatives with failing health it might be worth having a conversation about their wishes at end of life. Not a pleasant one but I can guarantee if they are old and health deteriorating they will already have thought about it. Slightly morbid I apologise but it’s like money - sometimes we do have to talk about it!

 

[clairebearnz]

I've got one out on loan, so slightly different, but wrote in that if the worst happens if possible to contact me (or the mare's emergency contact, a previous owner and a good friend) but if not, they have my permission to euthenase if it's urgent. I hope it wouldn't be necessary but I am comforted that they wouldn't be held up by needing owner's permission in the case of an emergency.

 

[bonny]

I've got one out on loan, so slightly different, but wrote in that if the worst happens if possible to contact me (or the mare's emergency contact, a previous owner and a good friend) but if not, they have my permission to euthenase if it's urgent. I hope it wouldn't be necessary but I am comforted that they wouldn't be held up by needing owner's permission in the case of an emergency.

In the case of an emergency a vet would just pts an animal, they don’t wait around waiting for permission or for the owner to be there, they just act in the best interests of the animal.

 

[marmalade76]

No written permission but my YO is an experienced former horse owner and very sensible person so I would trust her to do whatever was for the best.

 

[Auslander]

It's written into my contracts that I can authoeise veterinary treatment, including euthanasia, in the absence of the owner.
I had to make the call earlier this year, when our much beloved ancient TB got down for a roll, and his shoulder shattered. His owner was in transit going on holiday, so I had no option but to get the deed done, and break the news to her when she arrived at her holiday destination. It was hideous, but doing the right thing by the old man was the priority.

 

[Gamebird]

For all of you who have lodged instructions with your vet, just bear in mind that out of hours most vets don't have access to you animal's records. Some now do, but for the majority it would involve being in the office in front of a computer. Also a lot of practices now use an out-of-hours service who definitely wouldn't have any notes. So a copy on the yard would be far more practical. In the course of a normal working day there is no issue with accessing records, but late at night or on a weekend when these things tend to happen it may well be that no-one knows you have left instructions with the practice.