Doggy behaviour question? - too rough!

Lintel

Lintel

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Our German shepherd pup has turned out a fairly well rounded chap- although there are definitely aspects we could work on. We go to weekly training/socialisation even though he is 18 months I prefer to keep this up (for us both!)
After the class the dogs get a chance to play in a controlled environment and there has never been any aggression, he ignores the crazy and bullying antics of others, but will tell off the younger dogs as dogs do.
However his "play" is ridiculously rough and involves grabbing others on there back/necks, running over others, jumping on top of others(not mounting).
Trainer says this is perfectly normal behaviour from a GSD male and it is just there way of playing- but it does dishearten me a little because realistically I will never allow him to play with others in the park/beach, he is a big boy and growls throughout his play- so to other owners I'm sure this appears "agressive".

My mum and dad recently lost their terrier and intend to get another dog(rescue) my mum would like a small/med dog(so not a GSD) it would need to get along with our GSD- but how on earth will anything ever "get along" with this play style? Especially if they were going to meet in the rescue centre before rehoming. What would the rescue centre staff think of this?

Any advice? Apologies if this makes no sense, it's late!
 
I'm sure the rescue staff have seen all sorts of doggie behaviour. Growling doesn't necessarily mean aggression, especially when it isn't backed up by the dog's body language. Some breeds are simply more vocal than others. Inexperienced dog owners might see it as a problem, it might even put off more timid dogs, but if your parents adopt a more confident dog (and let's face it, terriers seem to be large dogs in small bodies), this really shouldn't be an issue. Introduce them gradually to each other and don't allow very rough play at first. You don't want things to get "lost in translation" and get off on the wrong footing.
Apart from that, good luck.
 
It will depend more on temperament then size I think. My collie loves rough play! But if she senses the dog is ‘up for it’. So recently we met a staff x 9 month old and she was in heaven!

I had a GSD rescue but he wasn’t that fond of many other dogs.

I would try and meet other owners who are sensible and know your GSD if just playing! I avoided local dog parks like the plague! Did join a few GSD specific walks as they understood my dogs reactivity.

Your dog is still very young really. I would certainly teach some kind of settle or leave command. I had to with my friends spaniel as my GSD would get too much for him after about 10 mins! But he was fine playing rough for a bit
 
It's generally completely normal GSD play/behaviour. As was said on another thread, it's an inherent trait and something that people need to think about before they buy.

PS allowing him to rough house with other dogs *after* a training session is completely counter-productive if you ever want him to ignore other dogs and meet strange ones politely.
It's also why I expressed concern about him running around with others at daycare.
It just makes other dogs more important than you, unless of course you can call him out of/away from playing with the other dogs immediately without going in and lifting him.
 
I have never had a GSD so am really not qualified to be breed specific but I teach my dogs to play gently and would call them out of a rough situation.
I do agree with CC about the rough play at the end of training, not being a good idea.
At puppy class, we used to let two dogs loose together to play for a minute or two and then call them out back to us, so that they learnt from an early age to stop playing and focus on the owner.
I know I own a gentle breed but games can get rough and noisy if allowed, my dogs know it is unacceptable.
 
I don't understand why the trainer allows this behaviour to continue, I should imagine that it is very off-putting for some dogs and their owners. I certainly wouldn't want it - and I have Rottweilers, who will play rough with each other but know not to overstep the mark with others. What exactly is this dog meant to be learning at these sessions.
I suggest OP either gets another GSd so that they can both play together, or finds another GSD owner who is happy for their dogs to play together. I would also ditch the 'training' sessions.

ETA, if the Rotters get too rough with each other, we stop their play, this should have been taught early on.
 
Yes, my GSD and GSD collie cross Sam play together and the older GSD(Bandit) sounds like he is murdering Sam in a particularly gruesome fashion. I do keep an eye on them because Sam is a little bit lighter but he often initiates play with Bandit and this can get rough without any malice on Bandit's part. If I think they are getting too rough I call them and get them doing something else. When Bandit was a youngster he used to play with our now very old terrier Biscuit and they got on brilliantly; when I brought Sam home as a pup Biscuit just growled Sam off and would not interact with him (getting too old and creaky to play), Sam gets along fine with him but respects his boundaries.
I think you have to get good command training in place as the others have said, and I think you will have to take care who he plays with as a bigger dog (when they play, dogs do not give themselves or other dogs allowances for size) and also bear in mind that often people see GSD's as potentially threatening and may react accordingly.
 
Berpisc said:
also bear in mind that often people see GSD's as potentially threatening and may react accordingly.
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I think this is a very pertinent comment. I may be being a little precious, but not everyone wants to see a big GSD bowling over to their dog and allowing these sorts of interactions puts your dog in a position where he may get hurt or he may hurt another dog and it does nothing for the breed's reputation for people to see them acting like this (even if we enthusiasts are 'used to it' lol).
I have heard of too many cases where the dogs turn in a split second and then it's an expensive and embarrassing trip to the vet. A friend's lurcher was playing nicely with a dog at the park the other day then blam, stiches required.
This is more of a general point but a young dog doesn't often make the distinction 'I can play with these guys at daycare/training but not this guy in the park/at the beach'.
I do of course know some GSDs that are brilliant mediators and are super with smaller dogs and puppies but the vast majority are 'splatters' and it's something to bear in mind when choosing a breed. I'd certainly go for something robust as a companion!
 
My Dobes play very rough with each other and most breeds have their own style of play but my 2 Dobes have played with my other 2 dogs and umpteen fosters and take it down to a more acceptable level.
 
It's hard to explain the context of the classes unless you are actually there, but I will continue to go to them as they are very beneficial for his continuing off lead and recall development. They are well controlled and thought through, it is not a free for all as I have probably made it sound and the trainer is excellent at what he does.
We would never allow him to go over to others who do not know him- he is a scary looking boy to others and I appreciate that. I suppose I'm coming to terms with the fact i will not be able to let him "play" with anyone. I do hope that when the time is right the rescue staff are knowledgeable and recognise his play manner as play and not aggression.
 
I have always believed that at the end of a training session it is a really good thing to give a few minutes quiet time, to allow anything they have learned to solidify in their little brains. This may be an Old Wives Tale but after training, even if it is a find the socks 'play' in the house they all go and lie down and get ignored.
I do not allow my dogs to play with any other dogs, ever, except my Mum's old collie. They never play with strangers dogs, or even approach them.

ETA I would never, ever attend a training session where my dogs got beaten up by a giant GSD having a play at the end. Even if I had the option to not get involved in that bit it would, IMO, be something I would not finanically support.
 
My dogs have quiet time after training sessions as well, perhaps a little bit of play with a toy but only with their humans, never with other dogs.
But that's a different matter!

My GSD x Rottie plays super rough and is considered to be a reactive dog as she's huge and sharp. However, occasionally, we meet a suitable play mate. Usually this will be an ill-mannered off-lead large dog ... and omg they play so rough it's terrifying, but they love it. My terrier has learned all his play behaviours from her, so he doesn't have many friends as he plays like a GSD with the agility of the terrier thrown in. Basically a Gremlin. Some dogs can cope with BIG players, some not so much! I didn't let my terrier play with her when he was small as she is not careful and the potential for accidental injury was enormous. I don't let either of my dogs play with "strangers" aside from the aforementioned inevitable scenario.
 
My 2 malamutes sound like they are going to kill each other when they play together but they have been taught that if I shout "gently" at them when they are with other dogs it means they need to calm down a bit as their preferred play is not fair to inflict on others, they are brilliant with this command as they know if they don't turn it down then the play stops all together, it's funny that noodle understands "gentle" after she's met a dog and started playing with them but initial introductions have to be very careful as she can't control herself so well then, I guess they all have their funny quirks.
 
I have scrupulously avoided all ‘puppy parties’ etc. I think it sends a very poor message to the dog. I want mine dog neutral, which they are unless one gets in Zak’s face, then we’re screwed. I want mine to pass other dogs without paying much attention. I’m not interested in them playing with other dogs, they are their own pack.

I’d be very cross if a large dog was allowed to run riot over my smaller dogs. Fair enough of you want your dog to be very sociable and I’m a smidge jealous, but I’ve met too many nasty dogs to want mine to play like that.
 
Most GSDs are not great with dogs of other breeds. Their playing style tends to be rough and noisy. I've had a few that were good with other dogs across the board. I've gotten to a point when I don't have my dogs play with other dogs. They can play with me and each other.
I wouldn't let mine run loose like that after training. Adult dogs don't have friends with all dogs in normal life. Dog parks are a great place to see inappropriate interactions.
 
GSD Woman said:
Adult dogs don't have friends with all dogs in normal life.
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I think that is a great point. We want our dogs to be friendly and sociable when they meet others, as we are. To them it is a vastly different kettle of fish. Wanting our dogs to play with strangers in the park (for instance) is perhaps anthromorphism? (In which case perhaps why my dogs don't play with strangers, I am not sociable either).
 
Lintel said:
It's hard to explain the context of the classes unless you are actually there, but I will continue to go to them as they are very beneficial for his continuing off lead and recall development. They are well controlled and thought through, it is not a free for all as I have probably made it sound and the trainer is excellent at what he does.
We would never allow him to go over to others who do not know him- he is a scary looking boy to others and I appreciate that. I suppose I'm coming to terms with the fact i will not be able to let him "play" with anyone. I do hope that when the time is right the rescue staff are knowledgeable and recognise his play manner as play and not aggression.
Click to expand...

Sounds like there's no real issue then?
I'm sure your trainer will be able to guide you.
Good luck :)
 
Interesting and helpful to read this. George, the Viz, is staying with us again and he and Stanley, the BT, love to play. It can look very rough but Stan has no problem with being rolled over and is always back for more. George is very vocal and it could sound aggressive but it clearly isn't. When Stan has had enough, he just stops playing. I wouldn't be happy about a doggy free for all play though after a training session, seems like a recipe for disaster but we do meet doggy friends from time to time and they are allowed to run around and play. It is very noticeable that as he's got older Stan is quite selective about who he will play with and won't initiate play with some dogs.
some of you will remember that I was at one time quite concerned about whether they would ever settle nicely with other. Well with time and now they are both older, they have. Phew!
 
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