Dogs chasing cows and sheep and anything else that moves . . .

[gerbilgirl]

For a few months now we had avoided the dogs escaping, at least more than one at a time. When one gets out we can usually get them back easily enough, just by leaving the front door open. But when two get out it's a different story and they will chase anything in sight.
Tonight I went to get Polo out of the pen outside because I was in the house on my own and thought I could give her a bit of attention when I had nothing else to do. As soon as I went to lead her out Lola appeared up behind her and growled as if to say move out of my road, Polo slipped the collar off and the two were tearing around the garden before I knew it. It just all happens so quickly. I opened the food shed, the front door and the patio doors, chased the cats into the kitchen but the dogs were already chasing the rabbit around the garden. But the rabbit must have gotten back into it's hutch because they started to head up the fields. Lola had seen the new cows in the field yesterday so she knew exactly where they were. And they're quite young ones so I really panicked. It was pitch dark and I was in the house on my own, no torch, no nothing. After about ten minutes I had an idea and shouted lets go to dog training. Polo arrived back down the field and straight up into the trailer. Even though she got loads of petting as a reward for coming back, things like that only work once with Polo. I put her back in the pen and went back round to find Lola sitting on the doorstep as if nothing had ever happened. I put her back in the pen and was like phew. I'm just so glad I was away all weekend and they're not fit otherwise they'd still be out chasing! Polo is a Husky x Collie so I don't think there's much we can do on the recall, but Lola has a brilliant recall until she fixes on something. Normally this is only big animals (cows, sheep, horses) and 99% of the time I can call her off a rabbit (which is good for a greyhound x Collie I think). But she seems to think it's her 'job'. Lola will herd them all up, move them through a gate and that's it. Polo just chases.

So has anyone any suggestions on how to stop them chasing?

And will a dog actually do any harm chasing cows (they're actually bullocks)?

Don't worry they didn't do any harm tonight, and my granda rents the field to a farmer so he won't be looking for trouble, but obviously it's much less bother for all concerned if the bloody dogs would learn to behave!

 

[zippo]

YES,I'm afraid that they may cause harm,bite the livestock,chase them onto the road,put them through a fence or cause an injury.I don"t really know what you can do,you've sort of admitted defeat already but a secure house yard would be a good start and with both those breeds they are bred to work,I'm afraid that now they have started ,you may never stop them.Perhaps you may have to consider re homing?As a farmer I'd be very unhappy if I found a dog chasing my cattle in what at that time is"my"field,here in Australia,the dog does not actually have to chase the stock,if you feel that they may cause harm,the dog may be destroyed by the landholder.More training may help,I'm others will advise,if they are penned do they get enough exercise?The next big worry is what if they start chasing a horse and of course two together only makes it worse,I realise that you didn't intend them to escape but as they seem to have NO recall and appear to have done it before,you have a major problem.I'm sure others will be along with lots of helpful advice but I must say I feel very sorry for the dogs who are only doing what they are bred to do and will probably pay for it in some way.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Agree with qookee here, first thing you need to do is make your garden dog proof. Sounds like when they get loose they go a bit mad, how much exercise do they get? You have 2 very active breeds there, I would suggest doing lots with them, training, maybe agility to let them use their brains, and when you walk them try using a long line so they can stretch their legs more but still be under control.

 

[Maesfen]

Can't add more than the other two already but I do have to say, it is not the dogs fault at all, they are only doing what they were bred for (in the case of the collie bit) I have to ask why anyone thought those two breeds mated together was a good idea though, just look at the attitude of Lola, that is never right for her to intimidate a person, particularly a family member? You really do need help with that one.
Just because your family let the land to that farmer, don't automatically think it'll be alright because it is never alright to chase stock of any description if they're not your stock; the farmer would be quite within his right to insist they are either re homed away from his property or destroyed if he believes they have done damage of any kind. I'm not trying to come down heavy handed on you but you must see how dangerous this behaviour is to the stock and ultimately, your dogs lives. The sooner your property is made completely dog proof as a matter of urgency the better.

 

[Booboos]

Have to agree with the others, you need to start by making the garden completely dog proof so that they are not rewarded by running away from you, they do not threaten other animals and they do not get themselves into trouble.

Also, invest in two kennels so that you can decide whether you handle the dogs separately or together. They can still have time together, but if one of them pushes the other one out of the way and you have trouble dealing with both, you do need to arrange things so that you can deal with one at a time.

Both dogs should wear well fitted collars that they cannot slip out of at all times. This will give you a bit more chance of controlling them in those first few moments and they have to be trained to accept that you will restrain them by their collar whenever you want to.

Any breed can learn to re-call, don't give up just because of the breed. Collies and Huskies are extremely bright working dogs, of course they can learn to recall!

Do you take them to training classes? I think this would be a very good idea or get a good animal behaviourist to come out and give you some tips. You should also start recall training in a small space without distractions where you are more likely to get the correct behaviour which you can then recall.

As others have said I would also look at their exercise regime, all of which should be done on a lead until they leard to recall.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Agree with good advice of above three posters.

What I have done with my two, for sheep and cats, is to walk past repeatedly on a longish line (so that they think they have more freedom than they actually do) with a large link choke chain right up behind the ears (don't use them if you don't know how, go to a training club or something for advice on correct use and fitting) and every time they get 'looky' - way before they have a chance to bolt or pull the line, very sharp pop in the neck and a 'NO'. When the dog's attention has returned to me, they get a bit of chicken and a pat, backed up with vocal - good dog, etc.

IE - attention on anything small and fluffy, correction, attention on me, reward.

Then you introduce your command, like 'here' - IE, you don't get the treat until you come back.

With your colliexgrey, you might be able to use a normal collar and lead, as she won't be as 'gung ho' as the huskyx.
As long as they know the difference between loose line and tension.

B was face to face with the cat twice off-lead yesterday and he came back to me both times via voice command.

They can now both walk on a loose lead past sheep, but they will never be off the lead around livestock on my watch, I am not taking any chances.

Whereabouts are you? You're NI, right?

 

[gerbilgirl]

We go to agility training already and recall is 100% when we're there, and 100% recall on a long line. They get a lot of jumping training in the garden and a lot of long-line use in the field.

Can anyone recommend a collar for a dog who can get any collar off, except if it's so tight it would literally be choking her (there would have to be less than 2 fingers space between her and the collar before she could get it off

) Normally all I use on Polo is a slip lead because she can get harnesses off too, she just backs up and slides them over her head, no matter how tight

They each have a separate kennel (Lola has her own shed) but I think I'll have to get doors put on the front of each so I can close them in and only deal with 1 at once?

I'll ask the dog trainers about a chain, we have used a half choke with Polo before which worked okay, but a slip is much handier!

Rehoming is definitely not an option.

And as for why these dogs were bred, they're both rescues and these are guessed breeds. We have a German Shepherd x Samoyed too, who is one of the worst crosses I have ever seen, but a lovely dog with a lovely attitude to life regardless of the fact that he was dumped at the side of the road.

I can take them in through the back door and at least if they escape then it's only into the house, and even though it's more bother it's not worth the risk so will be no problem when I think of it that way.

And dog proofing the garden isn't possible, in the near future I'm hoping to get a radio fence though. The pen is 8 foot high and we had to get a roof built on it because Lola thought it would be a good idea to climb/jump out

.

 

[gerbilgirl]

Yep I'm in NI, and they are the most beautiful German Shepherds I'v ever seen in your signature, we had one a few years ago and he was just like a dream dog. Sadly he had to be put to sleep at 14

 

[CAYLA]

As suggested garden needs to be completely escape proof and u need to work on the dogs recall seperately for a good hour a day on the long line and introduce a whistle so u can get their attention from a distance if this sceanrio should raise it's head again, I would keep them on a lead now for the best part of 3 months and work solidly with them, make up the exercise by playing with them in the garden and walking for longer periods on the lead and itroduce some seek and find games, when long lining call and whistle, then treat when they come in to you, no sit command or fuss at first just treat then encourage them to wonder to the end of the line again, this way they are reinforced with a treat for their return and they assosiate this with the whistle, use something they would never get chicken breast/cheese and don't use it for and other exercise.
As suggested by CC walk them in and around the fields where the live stock are and keep their attention either by reward or firm correction via check chain and traiing lead or a halti if u prefer to keep control of their head.
This gets them used to being around the livestock whilst being restrained in a clamer situation, rather then runnig loose and hence worrying the cows and then them running which is exactly what excites the dogs.
The husky x colli mix is indeed a very idiotic mix unless u want to put the dog on a sled and let it run a few hundred miles a day

, I have dealt with a fair few of these and they can be wild with limitless energy

so good on u for taking a rescue in.
As suggested the beahavior they display is instinct and as natural as the day is long, you now need to learn to control it to the best of your ability, but u will never completely rid of it.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Hopefully all the above advice will help you. Can I just ask why it is not possible to dog proof your garden. I have 1.5 acres all dog proof, sheep netting inside thick hedges or where there is no hedge double height sheep netting. A dog cannot climb over it because it is not rigid.

 

[gerbilgirl]

Okay I'll certainly try a whistle

How do I teach the whistle though?

Dog proofing the garden wouldn't be possible because my dad wouldn't exactly agree

. I might ask him to build me a porch (can't think of a better word) out the front of the pen though? What height is the wire you used? Lola has jumped onto an 8 foot shed so there's not a lot that will hold her back?

 

[CorvusCorax]

[ QUOTE ]
Yep I'm in NI, and they are the most beautiful German Shepherds I'v ever seen in your signature, we had one a few years ago and he was just like a dream dog. Sadly he had to be put to sleep at 14

[/ QUOTE ]

Thankyou very much.
One of my old girls was 14 when we lost her as well, they really do worm their way into your heart, don't they?

Best of luck and if you are finding things tricky and aren't TOO far away, send me a PM and I might be able to pop up and give you a hand (as I have found, a fresh pair of eyes always helps!)

 

[honeymum]

Haven't had time to read all replies, going to sound a bit harsh but maybe that's what you need to make you realise.

1. Train the bloody things.
2. If you can't train them then tie them up.
3. Exercise them a bit more, probably a couple of hours a day on lead.
4. Fence the garden properly so they can't get out, our garden has a 10 foot fence as the border collie kept trying to climb the smaller one.
5. If you can't do any of this then re-home the poor animals.

If they were chasing our cows I'd shoot the bloody things, all because of an irresponsible owner!

Not pleasant but it's what will happen if they keep chasing the cows. It doesn't matter who owns the field, the farmer is paying rent for it and therefore has the right to dispatch any threat to his animals on it. I know, we've been there.

 

[gerbilgirl]

They're in a pen so I can't tie them?
They really do get hours of exercise every day, and it's not just walking it's doing things like picking up particular toys and then lots of jumping.
10 foot :O. Don't think my dad would agree to being closed in like that lol.
Rehoming honestly isn't an option, we moved house because of our German Shepherd because the neighbours complained that he barked (literally about twice) and the house was up for sale the next day. I don't think parents would be too happy at the thought of moving but there would be more chance of that happening before we would get rid of those dogs.

Well dad says he will build me a wee porch out the front of the dog pen and I'll do lots of work on the long line, so hopefully we won't need you up CaveCanem lol.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Re whistle training - the way I taught it was to start with blow the whistle as you feed the dog. Do this for at least 2 weeks, then blow whistle before you feed when dog is just out of sight, then progress to whistle to call dog in from garden, give food reward, and so on. That is an edited version, think if you google whistle training you might find full details.
My fencing is 2 lots of stock fencing one above the other, it is not rigid like a panel fence so the dog cannot climb up it so unless they can clear jump around 6ft plus it should keep them in. If your dad was prepared to move house for the sake of your GSD I am sure he would consider fencing to keep your dogs safe, because tbh if they are chasing stock there is a good chance they will be shot

 

[gerbilgirl]

Okay I'll definitely try the whistle

.

I'll see what I can do lol.