Downgraded Horses BE

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Bubblegum

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Being a bit dim about such things, could anyone enlighten me a little about this subject please?

In particular I would like to know:_

The criteria needed to downgrade?

Can all points be removed?

What classes can you run in that you couldn't before? And does that mean your horse is never eligible for bigger classes again?

Can points ever be reinstated?

What is the main benefit in doing this, would you say?

Thanks so much, in anticipation. :)
 
If horse has not won points for 2 years it can apply to be downgraded.

All points are taken away

With 1 point horse has to compete above BE100, with 21 points has to compete above Novice, with 60 points has to compete above Intermediate

If downgraded can win points in normal way, it is a genuine 'wipe the slate clean'

Downgraded points are never reinstated, even if horse sold to a pro rider

"What is the main benefit in doing this, would you say?" ...to pot hunt!
 
Also I understand that you would no be eligible to compete at the Badminton Grassroots Championships as well. I do agree with the poster above that the advantage is that you can pot hut. However, i would suppose if you were completely new to eventing and were able to ride something that had competed at a much higher level, new what they were doing and could look after you, it would be a good start. However, most of the people I know who event at BE90/100 level have Grassroots as their goal, and you would be prevented from doing that.

If its any consolation, I would dearly love to take my daughters mare to be a BE90, when she decided to take life a bit easier, and have reconciled myself to competing in either an open class or riding HC, as I know she wont want to have her downgraded. However, I am not that ambitious, so just getting around safe and in one piece would be enough for me.
 
I really don't agree with the pot hunting comment. All down grading applications have to be considered by BE. Not all events run an open section at intro and PN, often they are oversubscribed. Horses downgrade for all sorts of reasons.

A good horse that has had an injury and can only do lower levels, a mare that has time off for foals etc etc. Just because a horse was amongst the good and great once doesn't mean it always will be, especially with a change of rider. IMO it prolongs a horses competitive career.

Downgraded horses cannot qualify for the grass roots champs, so this is still an area where true grass roots horses can shine.

ATM BRC do not recognise downgrading.
 
Thistle said:
I really don't agree with the pot hunting comment. All down grading applications have to be considered by BE. Not all events run an open section at intro and PN, often they are oversubscribed. Horses downgrade for all sorts of reasons.
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Agree ^^ Before I got my horse back, he was downgraded by his new owners. He only had one point with me and we had such bad luck with injuries etc we never really mainted ourselves at Novice level hence the only point. He went to a 13 year old girl who was unlikely to get up to Novice but things didnt work out and long story short he's back with me.
I think that it is unlikely to be for pot hunting. I imagine its for more older experianced horses that go to novice riders. I know how frustrating it is being in open sections where a scores are so close and a score of 32 only gets you 8th place.
 
I have just downgraded my horse for RC Thistle so he can compete in novice classes with his loaner as he was previously unable to.
It was a pretty hassle free process and I just had to write on the form why he was being downgraded. My horse was out of novice for both BSJA winnings and BE yet is highly unlikely to ever compete at above PN ever again.
Check through the criteria as its on the RC website. Another thing is Open is now completely open so you can be on an ex 4* horse and now compete at RC open level.
 
But playing devils advocate.. how does that bode for another amateur with a horse new to eventing, yet competing against a proven and far more experienced horse? I bought my mare with novice points, did OPN at the time till we could go upto Novice and didn't care about the placings at the time - I just wanted to gain experience and get upto a higher standard. Maybe the answer is to run more open classes as they are so popular. Even if you are competing against a professionial at the lower levels for eventing, the fact that they would be on a green horse does even out the playing field at times (and raises the standard)
 
problem for the 'standard' rider in an open class is you can't gain qualifications for grassroots champs if I'm right? Also at the lower levels its all about dressage whcih no one can deny. Unless you can get low 30s dressage you won't get placed unless a particulary difficult course or tight time even with a double clear. Well thats certainly the situation round here! Pros being pros will almost certainly gain better dressage scores so pushing the amateurs further down which is the whole point of limiting them to open classes in the first place.

Problem is what ever you do you willnever please anyone. The system as it is I think is good because a downgraded horse cannot qualify for grassroots.

I know a horse who is downgraded and stayed with the same rider but for good reasons. Horse managed to win one point before having a series of bad runs and completely losing it's confidence, it now is happy with intros but no higher. It doesn't win every event although has picked up a few placings here and there.
 
I think there is a huge difference between the Novice horse that has managed to get a couple of points by doing double clears, but has never been happy at that level, and the Intermediate and above horse that has been bought as a school master. I have no problem with downgrading the former, the later I think should stick to open classes, or compete HC until their rider feels happy to move up the levels.

What really annoys me is people who buy horses with points and then complain that they can't compete at the lower levels. Surely if you are buying a horse to compete you go and out do your homework first to find out what you are allowed to enter.

On the other side of the coin, when my daughter was in Pony Club, because she had jumped Foxhunter on her previous pony she wasn't allowed ot compete in Novice classes with her new 5 year old, but the girl who bought her old pony could. - Not sure if the rules have changed since then, but it seemed very targeted at those who could afford to go out and buy a schoolmaster, to the exclusion of those who had done the work themselves, and then for whatever reason moved onto a new pony.
 
susie2193 said:
On the other side of the coin, when my daughter was in Pony Club, because she had jumped Foxhunter on her previous pony she wasn't allowed ot compete in Novice classes with her new 5 year old, but the girl who bought her old pony could. - Not sure if the rules have changed since then, but it seemed very targeted at those who could afford to go out and buy a schoolmaster, to the exclusion of those who had done the work themselves, and then for whatever reason moved onto a new pony.
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Rules haven't changed- Al wasn't allowed to do any Novice teams on her green ex-racer because on her previous (schoolmistress for all her insanity) pony she'd qualified for the PC champs at Intermediate level. However, the girl riding the pony who'd done CCI** and intermediates with good results could do... Bit insane really!!
 
Lolo said:
Rules haven't changed- Al wasn't allowed to do any Novice teams on her green ex-racer because on her previous (schoolmistress for all her insanity) pony she'd qualified for the PC champs at Intermediate level. However, the girl riding the pony who'd done CCI** and intermediates with good results could do... Bit insane really!!
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The PC rules have got worse tbh, now I can't do Novice SJing/Eventing just because I did Intermediate Dressage on the same horse we may be able to scrape through a dressage test but what says we can jump a 1m 05? yet somebody with several horses could, not what I thought PC was about tbh!
 
"What is the main benefit in doing this, would you say?" ...to pot hunt![/QUOTE]

I have brought myself an experianced school master eventer who had points, who I needed to downgrade who is 17 years old and was in my budget. Unfrotunately I couldnt afford a young eventer, so he was perfect. your "pot hunter" comment is most unfair. I certainly didnt buy him to pot hunt, I brought him so I could have a go at the lower levels as never done BE before and there arent many open scetions at the places I wanted to compete at.
 
Thanks for all the replies.
Didn't mean to start a 'pot-hunter' debate.:confused:
My post was out of genuine interest, as I know someone who has done this recently, and we have been offered the ride on a horse who would fall into this category, maybe.
Having only had youngsters up until now, that we have produced ourselves, the new opportunity that faces us has made me think about all this.
Thanks, again.:)
 
Bubblegum said:
Thanks for all the replies.
Didn't mean to start a 'pot-hunter' debate.:confused:
My post was out of genuine interest, as I know someone who has done this recently, and we have been offered the ride on a horse who would fall into this category, maybe.
Having only had youngsters up until now, that we have produced ourselves, the new opportunity that faces us has made me think about all this.
Thanks, again.:)
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If you've been offered the opportunity, go for it! We'd have loved to be able to have a horse who knew their job for my sister to have fun on.

And as for pot hunting- it's win win. If you win, people can feel pleased that they were beaten by a horse who obviously knows it all (sarcasm here, please not... I know schoolmasters aren't always the easiest!) and if they beat you, it's double the pleasure for them... And all at absolutely no bother to you!
 
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