DR Divas: Teaching Piaffe/Passage in hand?

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Festive_Felicitations

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As there are no competitions till March, for something to aim for this summer I thought I would attempt to teach Beau passage or piaffe (which ever he offers/seems most comfortable with) in hand. I suspect passage as he does it fairly regularly when we meet the Emu's :cool:

Before anyone jumps on me and says that a dressage novice like me should never attempt it/ horse isn't any where near ready etc... I would like to say that we are never going to reach a level of schooling where doing a correct/proper piaffe/passage is required and I will be quite happy if by March we can get a few steady,relaxed elevated strides of trot.

I have a couple of very good (if slightly old fashioned) books that I'm using as a basis of to my attempts plus some info online that sounds logical and videos on YouTube; and any advice tips from HHO :)

So has any one done it before? Are there any issues/ bad habits that can/may develop that I should look out for and try to avoid?
How do you get the quick leg reaction to the whip which everyone seems to use as a starting point? As we thouroughly desensitised Beau to a whip touching him anywhere as he was terrified of it when we got him ~ in retrospect not that helpful as he happily ignores it now!

At the moment I working on getting him used to working in long reins again and getting my hands coordinated, and in a head collar try to get him to react to a tap on the leg with a long DR whip and praising any response. Anything else I should or shouldn't be doing at the moment?

Any advice/ suggestions/comment on my insanity and offers of a safe heaven for Beau appreciated. And as a reward for reading this I give you this gem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnnQt2mjPiQ&feature=related
 
Great video!!! Some of the comments below are just priceless! You wonder just how stupid some people are.

Mmm, not sure how to help with the question so just bumping this up. For what it's worth I started with some little steps of piaffe from a very collected walk and my trainer at the side encouraging with the whip, as soon as he did something vaguely in the right direction he got a big pat and allowed to walk on again. The exercise made his trot much more engaged but I can't reproduce it on my own unless we are on a hack and he is spooking when he naturally piaffes.
 
I'm not qualified to advise on this but would say you need a very good trainer and a horse who has been working towards this level of collection over a long time, which responds well to the aids. It will be more difficult with a less sharp horse if they haven't been taught to respect forwards/engaging aids to start with. I don't think it's something that could be learnt through a forum.

Good luck and let us know how you get on :)
 
i dont think you will do too much harm if you take it slow and dont expect too much.

be careful you dont stand in front of him and block him.

you need to find *the spot* that mkes him jog on a bit, commonest are a tap on top of croup, on hock, or mid way between hock and fetlock.

do lots of leg yield and shoulder in first to develop the quick step away from a touch of the whip.then halt, and ask him to pick up each leg in turn from the whip, praise, walk on, halt repeat etc. first lesson over.

progress to aksing him to pick the legs up (higher) whilst walking, and over time collect the walk and increase the repetition of the leg picking up/jog steps until he starts to offer a few genuine half steps.

dont try and make it on the spot for absolutely ages (months if not years).

its not rocket science, as long as you are fair and consistant.
 
There's nothing wrong with having a play and seeing what you get but I wouldnt push the issue if your horse does not understand it within a relatively short period of time.
Don't teach it on long reins, teach it in hand on the reins. My portugese trainer helped me with mine in hand, she knows the steps under saddle.
Firstly you need instant forward, stop and backward from the rein and stick- if you stand facing the horse's shoulder with your reins in your left hand and stick in your right- stick parallel to horse is neutral, stick tilted towards 1/4s is forward, stick tilted towards shoulder is stop, you move towards the shoulder and back to reverse.
When this is in place you can start to turn a small circle and ask for activity coming out of the circle. We don't teach it with stick on lower leg (sensitive mare, will kick stick to smithereens!) but stick on 1/4s and 2nd thigh.

Dont push for too much in one go, if you get a semblance of step then halt and reward
 
We taught my horse under saddle to offer passage from a collected yet active trot if that makes sense and using a long stick and gently tapping his croup down, and sitting very very lightly with my seat and praised any response I got, other than that I can't offer any help or advice, but enjoy your training and good luck!
I recently have been reading this book and it has some really good advice (and lovely pics too!) re pi/pa: I've found it on an Australian site for you!

http://www.horsebooks.com.au/product/0/40449/kottas-on-dressage

Lovely vid by the way thanks!- It looked to me like the rider was on board with a fishing rod!!
 
dressager said:
I'm not qualified to advise on this but would say you need a very good trainer and a horse who has been working towards this level of collection over a long time, which responds well to the aids. Good luck and let us know how you get on :)
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with this; you would need a horse who can already 'sit' a little before you can start working on half-steps, otherwise it just becomes a 'trick' that the horse learns, if you know what I mean.

Incidentally in my trainer's new DVD there is a bit precisely about this, it says that you could do more damage than good by teaching half-steps with a tap of the whip when the horse is not ready, because you end up teaching 'tricks' but the back and the whole hind end is not ready for it yet....But I can't remember exactly, I have rubbish memory! If you want I can copy that part out for you when I go back to Germany after Christmas :)

LOL at you meeting Emus when hacking out !!!
 
I found that Kyra K's book has a very good bit on piaffe in hand, very clear and understandable.

Unless you are used to in hand work, however, I'd recommend starting working on the half steps from the saddle. It can be very odd for a horse who has never been worked in hand before to suddenly start that, and be asked something completely new all at the same time. I'd personally start with asking for a diagonalization from the walk from the saddle and build up from there, lots of praise and breaks, and once you feel a few good steps in rhythm, trot out!
 
FlashHarry, Booboos, Pasha & MadisonBelle - I thought the video was serious and had to double check what I'd clicked at first! I'll let you know how it goes... :)

Dressager - I realise a very well schooled horse and good instructor would be the best approach but as I lack both and the finaces to acquire either I figured I'd just see what happens :D

PS - yep thats basically what I'm doing :) And making sure that I maintian forward motion/thought the whole time.

TheMule - by 'on the reins' do you just mean using the normal reins off the bridle? And are you just using a normal DR whip?

K27 - thank you very much for the link to the book will check it out.

FB - one of the books I have has a very stern paragraph on teaching proper paces rather than 'tricks' and I'm going to do my best to avoid it.
The Emus are actually in a wildlife sancturary we ride round the back of as they're not native to Syd & inspite of the 6ft electric fence they are obviously going to eat him.... :cool:

Beau is used to being worked in long reins - in that I've done it on and off over the years but not for a few months so we are (both) just getting back into it. It is easier to get him to collect from the floor than under saddle.

At a walk I'm asking for some reaction/lifting of a hind leg currently followed by forwards motion either a faster walk or into trot for a few strides, I aim over the next month once he gets the idea to get slightly less forward and a bit more 'up' into the bridle.

Yesterday at a walk at one point when I tapped his he did actually 'sit' a bit to lift his leg and then went forward = massive praise and I stopped there and then.
So if he is going to offer that I will percivere, if he just lifts one leg while falling over the others I will not bother. I have very low expectations and no real time frame :)

But thank you all very much for your advice and support.
 
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Felicity_09 said:
FlashHarry, Booboos, Pasha & MadisonBelle - I thought the video was serious and had to double check what I'd clicked at first! I'll let you know how it goes... :)
Click to expand...

:D I'm pretty sure she's taking the mickey out of the Pareli brigade! If you watch her legs and seat she is asking for the movement and if anything the horse has been trained to ignore the carrot - any other horse would stick its face up to try and grab the carrot. Gorgeous horse and the owner has a great sense of humour!!!
 
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