Draw Rein Technique for Lungeing - a Poll

[kerilli]

a. I use this method, and I and my horses really like it.

b. Anyone who uses this method is obviously cruel and clueless (yes, that includes you, Laura Bechtolsheimer!!!!!!!) - their horses are getting jabbed in the mouth and rubbed under their elbows and pressurised in the back and encouraged to hollow and trolley along on their noses on the forehand, and they're working overbent, and this will not do them any good at all.
Here's a little lecture about how to train horses PROPERLY... (see other thread for examples).

c. What? Who cares?


[tongue very firmly in cheek here just in case anyone misses it.]

 

[Mildred]

I'm in the 'who cares' camp - each to their own. I have ridden out in draw reins if I'm on my own and I suspect my horse is going to be giddy, I'd lunge in the arrangement too but I'm going through a Pessoa phase now and I'm fully aware there are plenty of people who despise those, but if they work for your horse and you can see an improvement, then who cares what anyone else thinks! Then again I'm also considering a new summer look of glittery pink hoof oil, so I'm not sure my vote even counts

 

[MandyMoo]

i answered c. who cares? haha

i have used it, but not regularly, my horses worked nicely in it (except one of my horses, but he is a daft silly thing anyway who hates everything!)

each to their own i say! i don't think it is a cruel method, but understand if owners want to use other methods!

 

[amage]

Well K you know I love the method and am a serious advocate of it! I have found it massively beneficial to the turbobreds in particular!

 

[kerilli]

Well K you know I love the method and am a serious advocate of it! I have found it massively beneficial to the turbobreds in particular!

I remember lungeing a tb livery many years ago in a chambon. he naturally went like a wooden giraffe and just fought the chambon (on loose, then slightly shorter in case that helped) the whole time, the penny never dropped. I just know that if I'd heard of this method, he'd have understood in about 3 seconds and we'd all have had a much happier time (I gave up actually, he just could not understand that he could work like that, poor lad.)
I love the fact that your physio likes it so much, doesn't surprise me though.

 

[Zuzan]

Voted Work of the Devil mostly as I prefer horses to balance themselves without being put in a position.. and I like being able to change from working long to working more up it is perfectly possible to lunge without additional kit

 

[TGM]

I think it is fine when used correctly and adjusted so the horse can stretch down AND forwards. Like all methods/equipment it can be used incorrectly and I don't like to see it where the reins are too tight, meaning the horse has no option but to be behind the vertical, as shown in some examples on the other thread.

 

[Kokopelli]

I thinks its fab if used correctly and on certain horses.

Andy fights it like crazy no matter how long/ short I have them but my old boy went well in it.

 

[Zuzan]

Just to add on the other thread there were a number pics of horses whose heads were behind the vertical which is a big no no as far as I'm concerned.. whether that was the effect of the draw reins or not or a hang over from something else I don't know but I can't see how the draw reins assist in correcting those that go behind the vertical

 

[pinktiger]

i have to insist on a d) >and it would look like this>



d) free laura b to all purchasers of said peice of kit as standard!


i think in the right hands gr8!! what i wonder is how many people read these forums and go home and have a few old ends of lunge line tie em together with old ropes and bailing twine and dig neddy (sorry) bring neddy in from the field (said neddy is thinking hes coming in for sugar lumps and cuddles) gets strapped into kit (bespoke ofcourse) and set off strapped up like a 4 bird roast!

 

[MegaBeast]

I need another option as I personally don't use it as my horse totally doesn't get it but would try it on any horse as can see and understand the benefits. My personal favourite to lunge in is the JW elastic training rein - very simple to use and horse understands long and low in it most of the time; or the pessoa which is my current favourite because of the being bale to work long and low then alter it to bring them up into an outline. Horses for courses!

 

[cptrayes]

I'm in the 'who cares' camp - each to their own. I have ridden out in draw reins if I'm on my own and I suspect my horse is going to be giddy, I'd lunge in the arrangement too but I'm going through a Pessoa phase now and I'm fully aware there are plenty of people who despise those, but if they work for your horse and you can see an improvement, then who cares what anyone else thinks! Then again I'm also considering a new summer look of glittery pink hoof oil, so I'm not sure my vote even counts

I think this answer shows that you are asking the wrong question. This is NOT lunging in draw reins that you are referring to, it is using the draw reins as a convenient rope of the right sort of length.

To lunge in draw reins you must fix them to a saddle/surcingle and to a girth/girthstraps/surcingle and have them running through a bit ring or other ring on the horse's head. THAT is lunging in draw reins, which this poster has answered.

The two are completely different.

 

[quirky]

To lunge in draw reins you must fix them to a saddle/surcingle and to a girth/girthstraps/surcingle and have them running through a bit ring or other ring on the horse's head. THAT is lunging in draw reins, which this poster has answered.

On the rare occasion I lunge, I do this ^^^, so I voted (a).
Now my horse is bitless (teeth issues), I don't bother lunging at all as can't really see I am going to gain much by her razzing round in her head collar and lunge line.
Long and low is incorporated into schooling, at start and finish of session .

Would I lunge with Laura B's method? Probably not as I achieve all I want/need to using the method I use already and if it ain't broke, then don't fix it .

 

[kerilli]

I think this answer shows that you are asking the wrong question. This is NOT lunging in draw reins that you are referring to, it is using the draw reins as a convenient rope of the right sort of length.

To lunge in draw reins you must fix them to a saddle/surcingle and to a girth/girthstraps/surcingle and have them running through a bit ring or other ring on the horse's head. THAT is lunging in draw reins, which this poster has answered.

The two are completely different.

Yes, this method is 'using a pair of draw reins in a different technique'.
Lungeing in draw reins is totally different. Incidentally, i had a new - and very short-term! - instructor do that to 1 of my very good horses the first time she set eyes on the mare, she put a pair on and looped them behind the cantle. the poor mare was trussed up like a chicken and forced to work like that until i eventually protested (not soon enough to my shame).
I would never advocate that. much prefer a pair of correctly fitted side reins or even running reins if absolutely necessary.

 

[quirky]

Yes, this method is 'using a pair of draw reins in a different technique'.
Lungeing in draw reins is totally different. Incidentally, i had a new - and very short-term! - instructor do that to 1 of my very good horses the first time she set eyes on the mare, she put a pair on and looped them behind the cantle. the poor mare was trussed up like a chicken and forced to work like that until i eventually protested (not soon enough to my shame).
I would never advocate that. much prefer a pair of correctly fitted side reins or even running reins if absolutely necessary.

as to how with cptrayes method you could loop over the cantle, or are you talking about something altogether different now.

When I lunge, I use 2 lunge lines, a roller and a bitted horse.
Using different arrangements of roller rings and lunge rein configuration, different things can be achieved. The roller is invaluable for altering the arrangement to suit young or more advanced horses.

 

[Mildred]

I think this answer shows that you are asking the wrong question. This is NOT lunging in draw reins that you are referring to, it is using the draw reins as a convenient rope of the right sort of length.

To lunge in draw reins you must fix them to a saddle/surcingle and to a girth/girthstraps/surcingle and have them running through a bit ring or other ring on the horse's head. THAT is lunging in draw reins, which this poster has answered.

The two are completely different.

No, I know what method the Op was referring to, I was merely highlighting the fact that I am not adverse to using tools when riding or lunging.

 

[kerilli]

as to how with cptrayes method you could loop over the cantle, or are you talking about something altogether different now.

When I lunge, I use 2 lunge lines, a roller and a bitted horse.
Using different arrangements of roller rings and lunge rein configuration, different things can be achieved. The roller is invaluable for altering the arrangement to suit young or more advanced horses.

I was referring to someone lungeing using draw reins in the usual way, the way they're used when riding, i.e. from lowest part of girth, through bit ring, up to saddle/rider etc, back to bit ring, back to girth.
the creature who did this to my mare looped the draw reins behind the cantle and sent the horse off on the lunge in a rollkur-ish position. i'm sure you can imagine...

 

[Ilovefoals]

I said option A.

And for the MILLIONTH time, my pics were a moment in time. My horses do not work behind the vertical, it was just a bad choice of photos. They do not get jabbed in the gob and for those who have said they are not working from behind, LOOK AT THE HIND LEG ON MY BLACK MARE!!! The draw reins are not too tight, they are plenty able to stretch down and forwards, they are not tied in. If you have never lunged this way and seen first hand how it works, please don't criticise.

 

[quirky]

I was referring to someone lungeing using draw reins in the usual way, the way they're used when riding, i.e. from lowest part of girth, through bit ring, up to saddle/rider etc, back to bit ring, back to girth.
the creature who did this to my mare looped the draw reins behind the cantle and sent the horse off on the lunge in a rollkur-ish position. i'm sure you can imagine...

Blimey , not nice and really rather pointless imo.

 

[angelish]

i have to insist on a d) >and it would look like this>



d) free laura b to all purchasers of said peice of kit as standard!


i think in the right hands gr8!! what i wonder is how many people read these forums and go home and have a few old ends of lunge line tie em together with old ropes and bailing twine and dig neddy (sorry) bring neddy in from the field (said neddy is thinking hes coming in for sugar lumps and cuddles) gets strapped into kit (bespoke ofcourse) and set off strapped up like a 4 bird roast!

lol
i like it ,it saved my bacon a few month ago as my horse suffers from allergies ,usually coming out in giant hive like lumps in the saddle region ,meaning i can't use saddle or roller to lunge.
with this idea i can work long and low then picking him up by threading them through a neck strap to make it more like a side rein effect
all horses are different and they won't suit every horse but neither will all other gadgets available
i have seen far worse involving side reins being far to tight ,at least with this idea i think the slacker they are fitted (within reason ie not dangling in legs)the better they work

but i also hack in them when bringing my horse back into work as he can be a pratt

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Can we have another option for those of us that personally wouldn't use ourselves but don't really mind it provided that the lunger has at least half a clue as to what they are doing?

I don't do lunging as I am too lazy. I just hop straight on all of mine, except my breaker who gets a walk in-hand before I hop on as she doesn't like girths being done up.

 

[OneInAMillion]

I answered C. I have never used them like that as D hates being lunged (scared not naughty) but I have used draw reins/market harborough if needed. However only as a supplementary aid not one that we ever depend on

 

[racingdemon]

I answered What?? because i have never (until i read the post about it that probably prompted your poll ) come across lunging in draw reins/the laura B branded alternative

so my vote probably doesn't really help!

 

[alwaysbroke]

QR havent read all replies, but like it, sons 11hh pony has really benefited from this method, I am sure i would be accused of pony squashing, and gross cruelty if I got on her and schooled her for a few weeks, son is now 7 but still a little young to understand the reasoning and riding of long and low, so this method has been ideal.

 

[Halfstep]

I use it.

 

[gunnergundog]

To the OP....my first reaction, is how childish given the other threads.

My second is, does no-one any longer have independent thought or is 'group think' now the norm - just because a 'name' does something therefore it MUST be right and anyone who disagrees must be wrong. End justifies the means and all that.....

Shakes head and walks away......

 

[nikkimariet]

To the OP....my first reaction, is how childish given the other threads.

HAH. Second this. Some people on here will do *anything* for an argument.

RE: the method in question. I have never used it myself, I have never been big on lunging - have never had a horse that I felt would have benefited from it. However, I know people from all horsey spheres who have used it to great success. I have no problem with most gadgets or the people that use them as long as the user knows what they are doing.

 

[milesjess]

I think they are great. I first found out about the method on here and tried it on mine and it has worked wonders

Tried side reins but he fought them and they didn't do anything for him. Used the draw reins and after 10 mins he was stretching, long, low and relaxed.

The method has helped build up his topline and has helped him massively with ridden work.

Yeah, I understand some people are against the technique and even the mention of draw reins make others cringe... But, he's MY horse

 

[Tnavas]

I'm for 'the work of the devil' but would have prefered a less dramatic title.
Don't like the idea of the rubbing over the back - over the bony wither area and also rubbing around elbows. Don't like the change of pressure with the movement from each step - likely to give a seesaw action the dressage judges hate!

Chambon for long and low - gives immediate reward when horse drops head.

Side reins for teaching a horse to accept and be confident in the contact as it simulates the desired action of the rider. Can give half halts through changing pressure on the lunge line.

 

[Caledonia]

Kerelli, I have the greatest respect for you - but foal watch sleeplessness might have a bearing on your poll post.

I'm sorry, but this poll offers only a black, white or don't give a toss attitude, none of which applies to my thoughts in the slightest, or to those the posters that have questioned the method of draw reins as used 'specifically' in the example on the other thread.

Anky (allegedly) uses rolkur. I hate it - just because she endorses it does not make it right. This is not rolkur, for sure, but I'm personally uncomfortable with the 'pro user' arguments for this method.
I still believe this particular method is nothing more than a quick fix Harbridge, with added downside of rubbing across the spine, nothing I have read to justify it has convinced me otherwise..

FWIW, I love the concept of the horse's head being able to move freely up and down a draw/running rein. I am not against the idea at all if allowing enough freedom of movement whilst still indicating to the horse the most comfortable place to be for him to work in the shape that you, as the trainer, wants him to. Indeed, I am for it enough to have a contraption that I have adapted via various trainers. It does involve a running/draw rein action, but has market harborough type clips to easily alter the length depending on the work I'm doing, and it is also elasticated, so if a horse does have a freak (stumbles, spooks, whatever), for any reason, the head can go as skywards as needs be, but the gentle pressure is always to return to where the reins encourage the head to be, to effect correct working through the body.