Draw Reins

[Christmas Crumpet]

As well as using the HWave machine my vet has suggested I very lightly use draw reins on the horse to get him to start using his back end and to stop poking his nose. He is not a horse that will take kindly to doing lots of schooling so it was suggested I use the draw reins out on gentle exercise.

Is this a good idea?

 

[ISHmad]

Personally I wouldn't use them, but if your vet is advising you too then you have to make a decision based on that. I would prefer to long line in hand or use a Pessoa on a VERY loose baby setting. That way if the horse really needs to put his head up he can, but will find a comfortable soft spot if he drops and works properly.

 

[kerilli]

Oh, gosh, i personally detest them, they cause waaaay more problems than they can ever help to eradicate, and i'm very surprised to hear of a vet advocating their use. a horse that doesn't take kindly to lots of schooling might not like them, either.
i wouldn't use them on tarmac either... the slipperyness of the surface makes the horse disinclined to really reach under with its hind feet, in my experience, so the best you'd be getting would be showing him that he can keep his nose in a bit.
i don't think there's any substitute for a trainer patient and good enough to show you and the horse exactly how to get forward to the comfort zone of a forward-stretching, relaxed neck, seeking the contact, allows him to release his back etc etc.
once they get the idea of this, you can build on it every day... it is genuine experience, whereas i always think anything acquired with the help of a gadget isn't really. hope that makes sense.

 

[AmyMay]

I wouldn't use them. If you want to use anything at all I would go for a market harborough.

 

[Llwyncwn]

I would personally agree with Kerilli here.

If your vet wants him to start using his back end more I cant see how this would help. I have just bought a pessoa for the exact same reason to help my mare with her back end.

 

[Tempi]

[ QUOTE ]
they cause waaaay more problems than they can ever help to eradicate

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not true - i school Bloss in draw reins about 3 times a week and have done for nearly 3 years now. Shes never had a days lame in her time with me, and her back is always fine (she has it done every 6months). If they are used correctly then they are a very useful training aid.

But like most training aids, if used in correctly or by someone who is inexperienced then they can cause major problems for both horse and rider.

 

[Queenbee]

good god,
you're all going to hate me but i use them and have had a lot of sucess with them, but i will qualify that statement...

[ QUOTE ]
they cause waaaay more problems than they can ever help to eradicate,

[/ QUOTE ]
yes they can cause problems, but only if overused or incorrectly used.

[ QUOTE ]
That way if the horse really needs to put his head up he can,

[/ QUOTE ]
draw reins are ont a metal chain with no give, the rider should be light enough in the hand and aware enough of the horses needs to be able to give with the reins and allow the horses neck to stretch.

i must also add that i have always practiced the belief that in order to work and develope a horses muscles they must be allowed to stretch the muscles out as well as work in an outline (etc...). otherwise they do not develop properly.

my mare used to leave her back end behind and poked her nose out like a royal stargazer!!! i sucessfully worked her through this with the help of draw reins. i used them whilst hacking and only very lightly and not for the entire hack or indeed every hack. my mare now works in a correct outline,
has correctly developed muscles and when i allow her to stretch she touches the ground with her nose in the arena and overtracks by a bloody mile (many trainers have actually commented at how supple she is). as a result i can see why the vet would have suggested this.

i am not however knocking other suggestions, or condoning the use of drawreins by everyone. i agree that they can cause many problems in the wrong or inexperienced hands. And would reccomend that if you are not confident or experienced in using them then don't, use something else.

i am just defending the use of draw reins for certain purposes in the right hands. i have been prone to riding particularly arsey horses who enjoy amongst other things gazing at the stars!!!! i recieved training on how to use these aids from very experienced trainers. For me for certain horses they have been invaluable, but i have never used them to restrain a horse, merely to guide them and assist me.

 

[Madam_max]

Oh dear I schooled in them today

. Personally I think they are useful with someone who knows hows to use them and on a horse which is fit/muscled up and basically well schooled but maybe needs fine tuning.

 

[teabiscuit]

i used them a few times just to give my hoss an idea that he could go without his head in the air

on a hack in walk for about 2 mins at a time increasing to 5 mins
with lots of breaks to let his newly activated muscle usage recover

i probably spent a total of 10 mins of a 1 hour hack using them.

they helped

 

[kerilli]

in expert hands, used lightly, they're fine.
however, i have witnessed someone hacking out in them, with no other reins. she'd taken them off, and was just using the draw reins as a pulley system on the horse's mouth.
i've seen plenty of other people riding with the draw reins tight and the true reins sagging.
vile and cruel, in hands like those. "the razor in the monkey's fist".
i can tell within 1 minute of taking up a contact on a strange horse whether it has been ridden in draw reins... there's a definite dead, solid feel in both hands, the opposite of what i'm looking for.
because they're so simple in action, and so inescapable for the horse, they are incredibly easy to abuse, in the wrong hands. that's why i hate them so much.

 

[kerilli]

umm, if they're so good, why do you still need to use them 3 times a week, after 3 years?

 

[I_A_P]

i have used them with success as well under the advice of an instructor who has watched me closely.They were very useful in the ealrier stages of her flatwork and i do sometimes pop them back on now and again, however i never have ridden in them so tight that they have their head tucked into their chest!

Again i think some training aids have their place but need to be used very carefullly and appropriatly

 

[kerilli]

this month's Horses For Life (online classical dressage magazine) has a special report on draw reins. these quotes are from it:
one study has shown that 80% of dressage and jumping horses have poll ossification. Calcification from the pull of the nuchal ligament to the poll. Something that is not reversible.
The danger of the draw rein is that no rider can feel in theirs hands the multiplication of power that exists. We feel lightness, but not so for the horse.
A rein that depresses the neck carriage.. look at the height of the head and the muzzle, when our goal is to have collection with the muzzle even with the point of the hip. A horse that beyond a shadow of doubt is being held onto his forehand.

there's a lot more. as a temporary correction (e.g. to show a horse a few times that it CAN do walk to canter without chucking its head in the air!) they have a value. long-term use leads to chronic problems, simple.

 

[I_A_P]

i can see the short-term / long term differences i used mine to start help with my trot work, then stopped using them, my mare thdn found it difficult to understand thsat she can canter with her head down and neck runder rather than holding it down and being tense, i then stopped using them once she started to relax more through her tort to canter transitions and her canter is really starting to come along now!

 

[Stoxx]

Draw reins are a difficult subject, a friend of mine uses them every now and then to help aid what she is doing and they have helped very much, but at no point does she rely on them. Her horse is a warmblood he just accepts what he has to do and then trys to do it correctly. However my horse had been ridden in them a lot before i bought him and I have spent the last 7 years trying to undo the damage they caused. He is IDxTB and (without being mean) has a more intelligent brain than I'd say your average WB does and had therefore worked out how to evade them, so he used to tuck his nose in and not work correctly over the back and therefore his hindlegs were not engaged at all. It has taken all this time to convince him that he can go forwards into the contact rather than trying to sit behind it.

In answer to your original question, if you wanted to try using them I would strongly advise you to perhaps have a lesson whilst wearing them so that you are totally sure you are using them in a correct helpful way so that you don't cause any further problems.

 

[Cahill]

on a very simplistic note-we had to use a pulley to get a lorry out of some mud last winter.anything with a pulley or a lever is v.strong.
who said`give me a lever and i`ll move the world`?

 

[conniegirl]

wouldnt touch the things with a barge pole. there are better ways to encourage the back end to come under the horse. To be honest when drawreins are used by most people all they are doing is pulling the head in and leaving the back end to trail out behind.

echo the thoughts of why on earth would you need them 3 times a week for 3 years? i can understand a few times (although id never use them i can understan why people would) but 3 times a week for 3years?

 

[kizzywiz]

Both my ponies work in lovely outlines in self carriage, both have collected, working & medium paces, they work from their hocks over their backs to the bit, I have never used draw reins, never would & can't believe if they are so wonderful you would need them 3 times a week for 3 years!!! From some of the pics on here, overbent, dropped in the back etc etc, definately think I've made the right choice for classical, correct training, takes time, but so worth it!! By the way, some horses just soldier on with sore tight backs, my friends horse was winning points at novice level dressage just before he was diagnosed with kissing spine!!

 

[burtie]

Draw reins used correctly aren't used to pull the horses head in, yes they can be used like that which is why they become mis-used easily but they don't have to be. Used correctly they are just like a more refined running martigngle and are used only to maintain outline never to create it.

 

[kerilli]

agreed, but most people don't use them correctly. they are inescapable for the horse, which is the worst thing. they are proven to cause a lot of physical problems in the horse, used long-term.
a lot of riders are overjoyed because they've finally got the horse's neck arched and its nose in, and they get totally carried away. there's a very similar pressure/position and strain on the horse to rollkur, used like that.
used by experts, for a very short-term way to show a horse that it can do something without sticking its nose out, they're okay.
unfortunately, the vast majority of riders who use them aren't experts, and don't use them short-term for that purpose.

 

[Christmas Crumpet]

Slight amendment to my initial post...!! I didn't check it before I posted it. I didn't mean to say that my vet had advised the draw reins - it was a racehorse trainer who was staying with me over the weekend!!

My vet would not recommend them in a month of Sundays. I meant to say that as well as the vet recommending the H Wave machine I had also been recommended to use draw reins to get him going a bit better.

I won't be using them!!

 

[AmyMay]

Ah, I did think it was a bit odd.

 

[alicedove]

"Inescapable," no if you use them correctly, as most of the people on this post are saying, if you hack out in them, put normal reins on and drop the draw reins the instant you have an unsatisfactory reaction and when neck is tired (which could be in two minutes)

Personally if you are allowed to at this stage, I would longe the horse in side reins, perhaps even a pesoa/chambon type rein, to show the horse how to move without head in the air.

I have to tell you, in the wrong hands a Market Harborough can be awful too, my daughter got chucked off and kicked for being too strong in the hand with that on. The problem there is you can't exactly drop it, it will come into play and stay in play as soon as the horse raises its head to the set height.

I feel for you, the vet said to use it, and this is giving you a whole load of confusing and conflicting advice. If you are absolutely sure your horse won't react badly, you are capable of "dropping" COMPLETELY the draw rein even if the horse is leaping or rushing, to start to take a contact with the other rein, then you shouldn't have a problem. But as kizzywiz and kerilli says... they are not for long term and your horse should not grow accustomed to them.

 

[Eccles]

QR: I've used them on an older horse who was hollow in canter and through the canter transition, he was a big chap and I needed some assistance! I tied them in a knot and picked them up just when I needed too. Used carefully in the right hands they are a useful tool imo, wouldn't personally use them on a nice young horse though, but they defo have their uses. I absolutely hate seeing people riding horses with the draw reins to tight and the horse's chin in its chest - I can't imagine how anyone can think that is helpful. JMO though.

 

[Queenbee]

[ QUOTE ]
"Inescapable," no if you use them correctly, as most of the people on this post are saying, if you hack out in them, put normal reins on and drop the draw reins the instant you have an unsatisfactory reaction and when neck is tired (which could be in two minutes)

[/ QUOTE ]

i also agree that the vast majority of riders are inexperienced and use them incorrectly.

i would also agree that to use them three times a week for three years is unnecessary and that the horse should be able to carry it's self by now.

i have, as i said used draw reins, i have recieved guidance in how to use them and they have been a very effective aid for my horses that stargaze and leave their back end behind (they don't do that now- they carry themselves correctly) And no i don't really use them any more (maby 3/4 times a year) one five minute sesion of using them lightly is enough to remind my mare how she should go.

finally i would say that in every day riding we use a crop, spurs, snaffle bits, normal reins, the nice kind webbing bitless bridles, running and standing martingales, saddles, bridles the list is endless...

ever seen a pony with sores at the corners of it's mouth because someone was sawing away at it for months cause it was so strong (but they wanted a kind snaffle bit in their horses mouth)???? i have, and you wonder why he turned into a stargazer!!!

Or have you seen a horse with sores on its flanks from spurs being used incorrectly? What about from a saddle that doesn't fit? Or sores on the nose from incorrectly using the "kind" bitless bridle?

What do you think when you see someone jumping 3ft 6 in a standing martingale, do you think what a cruel piece of tack or do you think what an evil cow to do that to their horse?

It is the people, not the tack that cause the damage to horses because they either use the incorrect piece of tack, or use the right piece of tack incorrectly and have too high an opinion of their capabilities and to little an opinion of their horse to take the time to seek gudance.

 

[Tempi]

[ QUOTE ]
Draw reins used correctly aren't used to pull the horses head in, yes they can be used like that which is why they become mis-used easily but they don't have to be. Used correctly they are just like a more refined running martigngle and are used only to maintain outline never to create it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank youy Bertie, couldn't have put it better myself!

 

[Tempi]

[ QUOTE ]
umm, if they're so good, why do you still need to use them 3 times a week, after 3 years?

[/ QUOTE ]

I use them to maintain the outline, not to create the outline - theres a difference. I ride with them loose anyways so only if she goes to chuck her head up in a transition will they come into action. Like i said shes never had a days lame in her life, and never had a problem with her back or poll. And in answer to your next question yes i did compete her very sucessfully BD (shes currently Petplan Novice Open National Champion) and obviuosly i cant ride her in draw reins to do that - so no, im not incompetant

Im also trained by two well known top dressage riders/trainers, and them, along with all the other trainers i know, ride their horses daily in draw reins from 3yos. I dont see what the fuss is if they are used correctly.

 

[viola]

Personally I am not a big supporter of them but have used them a lot when on an international show-jumping yard and agree with those who said that if used correctly they are not suppose to create an outline but maintain it.
I regard them as a very tricky instrument though and believe your feel must be of decent, if not superior, quality. I don't used them anymore on any horse, prefer lunging on a chambon.

 

[wanderer]

i have used draw reins with success and have got my horses going fantastic, but i have seen people who dont know how to use them causing their horses to really overbend and be unhappy about going forwards in them.
when i use them i have them there as a back up but then as soon as my horse is on the bit and working from behind i ease of him.
i believe personally that you aim to correct your horses outline and give it a chance to prove it can do it its self once you have shown him.
otherwise how will he learn.

 

[PapaFrita]

I think you'd be better off with something like a de gogue, which allows the horse more freedom to stretch down and forwards.