dressage canter V SJing canter...

[MissDeMeena]

With everything i ride, i have quite a big difference in the SJing canter from the dressage canter.. for a start, i have the SJing one alot more powerfull tho usually no faster, and never worry about things like if they are 'on the bit' or not, as long as i have a nice feel on the mouth etc. for SJing i don't really care where their head is...

I've also only ever ridden babies, or horses that i've made myself or other people rejects!!
I've now however got the ride on a horse that's ALOT better than me, and has in the past been ridden by someone ALOT better than me!! This person always had one or two fences down SJing, and i always felt SJ'd out of a 'dressage canter'...
Anyway, i went SJing for the first time with this horse, and although we did a clear round

(1.10/1.15 hight) i felt i never got the sort of canter i like for SJing...

So, baring in mind the horse has come from a top rider, and has competed to a higher level than me, am i wrong to want a different sort of canter for the SJing...
And, if i'm not wrong, how do i go about getting it, as the horse has obv. been trained to bob around in this dressage canter.

Hope that makes sence??

 

[dieseldog]

It makes total sense. If the horse always had 1 or 2 fences down SJ - I take it it is an eventer, what it is doing now obviously isn't right for SJ. Yo do need to get a canter with 'gears' which doesn't mean you lose the dressage canter but you get a different type of canter for SJ. If it is an older horse it might take a bit of time to change it but you know what you are doing and if it doesn't feel right change it.

PS Lucky you

 

[Sarah_Jane]

Difficult one but a few thoughts.

The Pro is going to be a lot sttronger rider than you and what may look like a dressage canter may in fact not be. It might look the same but the energy is more like a coiled spring. WFP is classic for SJing out of what looks like a dressage canter.

You have mainly riden babies and brought horses up through the levels so have to have a slightly stronger canter to compensate for their 'greeness' and possibility of hesitation or stopping. With a more experienced horse that should not be a factor.

Having said all the above as well as you adapting to the horse it has to adapt to you. Just be careful he doesn't get flatter in a stronger canter. Don't worry about it too much but it will slowly change so it is somewhere in the middle of what you have now and what you feel you should have.

 

[MissDeMeena]

Actually, that makes alot of sence SJ

I've never ridden a horse like this before, and the whole thing could not be more different, as you said, that greenness just isn't there, and i've gotten so used to it! that i'm ready for a hesitation or stop, even tho the chances of this horse doing that are 1 in a million.

And as you said, there's alot of getting used to each other to do.. the horse has been told what to do by the same person for the last 3 years, and now he's got to try and work out what i'm saying to him!!

when i don't know what i'm talking about half the time.. poor horse haha.

 

[Sarah_Jane]

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Actually, that makes alot of sence SJ

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There is a first time for everything!!

 

[tigers_eye]

Show off

Um well the two people I have been to lessons with most recently make me ride in two COMPLETELY different ways. The dressage lady (Anna Ross-Davies) wants me to sit tall and elegant and with my legs off. So I tell it to canter then I should be able to just sit there and concentrate on smiling at the judge for at least 16 circuits of the arena if necessary without the canter changing.... (needless to say William hasn't quite got the hang of this yet - 16 circuits without anything happening would confuddle him beyond belief). Meanwhile, sj lady (Annette Lewis) very much favours a leg that "holds" the canter, producing the bounce at each stride. She likes horses to be settled in the mouth, but not necessarily round, and lots of leg. So the way I reconcile this is my horses have to know the difference between the jumping saddle and dressage one really! Or, more seriously, once they're told to canter they should stay in it, but should I need to lengthen/shorten/turn/half-halt they have to react to my leg immediatly.

Think about top sj'ers though - quite often they prance round before the bell goes in a tiddley dressage canter, but the one they use during the course is really quite a punchy, aggressive one, with many nowhere near being "on the bit".

If you jumped a clear round last time out then I'd suggest riding the same next time out! Or, shock horror, you could have a lesson off somebody if you're worried about it?!

 

[Bossanova]

Mark Phillips says you should jump from a medium canter- that way you can collect a little to shorten the stride or extend a little to lengthen in front of the fence without having to destroy the rythym. he says that if you start with too much collection, when you need to shorten, theres no-where to go.

Kind of makes sense I think!!

 

[MissDeMeena]

thanks everyone...
i don't want to sit on it like a lemon and do nothing.. and at the same time, as the old saying goes, "if it ain't broke don't fix it".. and this horse isn't broke, but this is a new relationship, and i guess things are going to change.

ho hum

 

[Santa_Claus]

agree with almost everything above.

I would put my 'showjumping' canter at a powerful medium but not running on. Want to feel a lot more from behind and where possible the coiled spring effect so when in deep can power up and over.

Before I went to uni I jumped a lovely horse for my instructor who could no longer jump. He was beautifully schooled (and i mean exceptionally well schooled to leg/weight aids) but if jumping out of his 'normal' dressage canter he would just jump flat as although very pretty, tracking up, holding himself etc he just didn't have that power. I would really have to get after him and he jumped best from a true working canter, if you tried to collect him back on to his hocks he just wimped out!!

Also agree that often its hard to see the difference when well ridden but I think you should always see it in the hock action, you should be able to see (or feel) it really stepping under that bit extra and flexing more.

 

[Fiona]

Agree with all above, but just wanted to add....
Now is definitely the time to try the more forward canter, so you can make a decision on which works better before the start of the season.
Good luck with the new horse.

FIona

 

[seabiscuit]

Mmm interesting one,
I personally feel that a lot of the top event riders have their canters ridicolously slow in their SJ. I know for a fact that a lot of the top Showjumpers take the piss out of the eventers for this very reason. The eventers canter is so slow that it makes them very hit and miss at times I think...
As someone else said, if you watch the top level showjumping the canter is energetic and punchy, you would never see a top SJ'er jumping at the kind of pace that some of the eventers do.
This is just my opinion but because your horse has been ridden by a male rider who would have been very strong at holding him together, it might be better to teach him to go more forwards in his jumping in the kind of style that you describe that you are used to because this way is always easier, and the horses always jump better, and that is how the true showjumpers do it... I just think that way is always easier for the horse and I bet he would no longer have any fences down because he would get a better stride to a jump and thus a better shape.. Jumping from a slow canter is always going to make life more tricky than it needs to be and unless you are a WFP it is not always easy to pull off.

Sorry just my opinion, do not mind if anyone says I am talking rubbish and also cannot judge when have not seen the horse/rider!

 

[BBs]

[ QUOTE ]
I personally feel that a lot of the top event riders have their canters ridicolously slow in their SJ. I know for a fact that a lot of the top Showjumpers take the piss out of the eventers for this very reason. The eventers canter is so slow that it makes them very hit and miss at times I think...

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Completely agree with this. Very interesting being based with SJers. When YO's son was working at home the canter was so short and he was jumping HUGE fences out of this *going no where canter*
However, in the ring they have to be travelling at 400 mtr! that 50m less than what we have to go XC at PN level.
I also found after taking on Winston after he had been previously ridden by a man much harder, because they are far stronger than me.
Again, quite agree, i have been used to riding green or ungeniun horses which would require far more leg.
Riding winston in this way resulted in him stopping and getting very confusing signals. Where as had i just sat tall, quietly and leg on he would have happily popped a fence

HUGE well done at your first SJing event together

super result.
Personally I would play at home with his canter, do lots of canter poles lengthening and shortening.
You need a good strong meaningful canter, something that can be lenthened and shortened within the pace.
Watching pure SJing at a few affiliated shows last year *bigger classes* and then watching the Advanced SJing at Aston horse trials OMG the eventers were really BAD!! I hadnt noticed it before but they were going far too slow, or pulling round the corners *slowing down* then kicking the horse to the fence which resulted in the horse coming in to a combination totally wrong.
Equally, however you rode him at the show obviously worked

so stop thinking too much lol

 

[Baggybreeches]

I personally agree with Forrest. The most important things are the rhythm and regularity of the stride, this helps the horse judge the fence, because he is moving forwards in even strides and will be able to take off and lift to the rquired height without too much effort! Not sure if that make sense but I know what I mean!