Dressage girths ( and saddles ) for horses with large rib cages

[quizzie]

I have a large (18hh) horse, with plenty of saddle room, but a very wide rib cage and a significantly narrower forward girth groove.

This means that his dressage saddle tends to be pulled forward by the girth causing the points to impinge on his shoulders and inevitably restricting his forwardness. His jumping saddle is no problem.

Any saddle with shorter tree points slides forwards unless fitted too tight, the best saddle I have found is a Fairfax Gareth, which needs to be girthed on the point and back straps, and then stays put with a Fairfax shaped girth. However I suspect that it is still causing some restriction.

I have tried a half moon shaped girth (girth galls), a wow free space (he hated it), a Scharf freedom girth ( not convinced),Fairfax (as above).

I am considering trying a stride free saddle…any thoughts

….or any thoughts on other types/shapes of girth.?

Thank you!

 

[GreyDot]

One of mine is very wide in the rib cage. He has a Childeric balance girth, which has totally solved the issue. They are expensive though, but do come up for sale second-hand sometimes.

 

[quizzie]

One of mine is very wide in the rib cage. He has a Childeric balance girth, which has totally solved the issue. They are expensive though, but do come up for sale second-hand sometimes.

Thank you, was just looking at these!….there seem to be 2 different types, one with a solid front strap, and one with both straps through the pad…which have you got?

 

[Louby]

Hi, Ive got a very wide Highland Pony with hardly any wither and a forward girth groove. I tried to get a saddle fitted by different independant saddle fitters but no one had anything wide enough or anything that wouldnt move around, forwards or both ... but the common advice was I needed a point strap and an anatomical girth. Not having much choice but to go it alone I ended up with numerous saddles that didt fit, moved forwards, sideways etc, but then fell very lucky with a beautiful Symonds Dressage saddle. I took a chance on this as his current saddle was a Symonds WH and its worked really well.
I will be forever grateful to @Baywonder and her wonderful hubby (who makes these saddles) who went above and beyond to help me, and I now have a saddle that fits Incidently my saddle doesnt have a point strap as such but I was advised to try an anatomical girth first and see how that worked.
I admit to overgirthing at first as I had visions or ending up on his shoulders or facing upside down I really have struggled to get one to stay where it should!! but I trust its not going to move now, so my poor pony can finally breathe
This is the girth I use https://idealsaddle.com/product/affinity-f2-girth-short/ I picked one up 2nd hand, I also use the Harry Dabbs anatomical waffle long girth on my WH saddle.
Good Luck, I truely feel your pain!

 

[sbloom]

This is a really complex issue and simply switching the girth may ignore other issues. Has your fitter got any further ideas? If the railm angles are too narrow, something I personally find with Fairfax on wider shapes, it is more likely to migrate forwards to the narrowest point, holding it in place may not be the best solution.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I've got Arab's and they both have wide sprung ribs the one that has a flat back and not much wither has had saddle slipping issues and migrating forwards, I use a dressage saddle on him now with a flexi girth and it has worked for us the saddle is no longer moving.

 

[quizzie]

This is a really complex issue and simply switching the girth may ignore other issues. Has your fitter got any further ideas? If the railm angles are too narrow, something I personally find with Fairfax on wider shapes, it is more likely to migrate forwards to the narrowest point, holding it in place may not be the best solution.

Thank you for the thought....I don't think this is an issue, as he has a fairly normal whither profile/spine width for a TB xWB, most MW/W saddles with a reasonably flat tree look as though they fit well on him when stationary......But he has a big shoulder, and a massive rib cage that bulges out from underneath the horizontal processes of a perfectly normal topline!..... so the actual saddle fit is good(and easy !) when stationary, but the rib cage shape throws everything forward when ridden.

An Equipe, a County and a Barnsby have done the same as the Fairfax.

When I rode him in a schaarf freedom girth (which they recommend you only tighten to allow 2 fingers under the sternum...so in effect pretty loose), the saddle did not migrate forwards at all, but as he can throw a few interesting shapes if so inclined, I was not happy with such a loose girth...but may need to revisit that!

His jump saddle does not move at all, but it is a small/minimal close contact (Stephens) saddle, with short points facing almost slightly backwards, which enable the saddle to sit just behind the shoulder, closer to the girth groove, with the forward cut knee flaps in effect "floating " over the shoulder...of course a totally different rider position too!

My fitter is running out of ideas, as am I...hence the question.

 

[sbloom]

I stand by what I said, the rails are under your seat in the saddle, I suspect the rails, as I so often find, are too upright. If you run your hands along his spine down the channel how much space is there between the panel and his back, around the stirrup bars and back to where your seatbones would be?

Also bear in mind saddles can be stable for the wrong reasons, again often related to rail shape and angle, so a stable saddle isn't always better fitting than one that isn't. It's so complex.

 

[quizzie]

I stand by what I said, the rails are under your seat in the saddle, I suspect the rails, as I so often find, are too upright. If you run your hands along his spine down the channel how much space is there between the panel and his back, around the stirrup bars and back to where your seatbones would be?

Also bear in mind saddles can be stable for the wrong reasons, again often related to rail shape and angle, so a stable saddle isn't always better fitting than one that isn't. It's so complex.

I am not sure I am understanding your comment....do you mean how close to the vertical processes of the vertebrae do the panels sit?..... and is there a narrowing of this at the "twist"......If that is the question, then no, there is no reduction in the spacing for him. If I put a slightly too narrow saddle on him, such that there is less room under the saddle bar area vs the twist, then the saddle does not move forwards, but that of course creates its own pressure point.

 

[sbloom]

No, that's the channel width, the rail shape is about the tree, push one hand under the pommel with the other pressing on the top of the saddle, how much space is there between the panel inner edge and his body? Not how far are they from his spine and each other, but how much of the panel sits down in direct contact with him. It's not something that can be filmed as it's under the saddle, and not something that many owners understand. Even bodyworker send customers to me saying the channel is too narrow when rail angle is the issue.

 

[quizzie]

No, that's the channel width, the rail shape is about the tree, push one hand under the pommel with the other pressing on the top of the saddle, how much space is there between the panel inner edge and his body? Not how far are they from his spine and each other, but how much of the panel sits down in direct contact with him. It's not something that can be filmed as it's under the saddle, and not something that many owners understand. Even bodyworker send customers to me saying the channel is too narrow when rail angle is the issue.

I will double check, but I think there is a very good even contact right through the panels....fitter is due Thursday, so we can have a check. There is certainly no obvious bridging/rotational movement/or more pressure on the inside or outside of the panels, and he produces even sweat marks with no hair displacement, and physio has never found an issue.

 

[sbloom]

If the rails are too upright there would be a lack of contact along the inside edge of the panel.

 

[quizzie]

If the rails are too upright there would be a lack of contact along the inside edge of the panel.

Thank you…will check, but don’t think so……despite his wide rib cage, he is much more what I would describe as the typical sport horse in his topline, not a wider, flatter broad backed horse.

 

[GreyDot]

Thank you, was just looking at these!….there seem to be 2 different types, one with a solid front strap, and one with both straps through the pad…which have you got?

Mine is like this - https://www.childericsaddles.co.uk/store/p3/Childeric-balance-girth.html#/
Girth sizing is the same as 'normal' dressage girths.