pistolpete
Well-Known Member
Just been reading the thread about the uncomfortable warm bloods in the CDJ thread. Those that have ridden both I would love to hear thoughts on the comfort and suitability of the Iberian dressage horses.
Dressage horses and the Iberian type.
- Thread starter pistolpete
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Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
Iberians are a lot less bouncy than WBs. Gaits are pretty smooth in comparison. And many are more than capable of the GP movements like piaffe, passage and all that. I bet even my mare would be, if her trainer weren't a complete moron.
You see the odd PRE or Lusitano competing internationally, but they always have pretty middling scores compared to the WBs, even if some of the movements like piaffe/passage are arguably more classically correct. But they don't have the huge elastic gaits so beloved by judges, so that's why I think even the best Iberian horses' scores are a bit a 'meh' compared to the top scoring WBs. Whether you think dressage should be judged that way is...well...a can of worms on that other thread.
If you are a muddling amateur who isn't trying to win everything at the FEI levels, I think Iberians are great horses. More than capable of learning the upper level movements, if that is what you want to do, but their gaits won't throw you out of the saddle. I believe some can be super hot and fiery. Mine...not so much.
You see the odd PRE or Lusitano competing internationally, but they always have pretty middling scores compared to the WBs, even if some of the movements like piaffe/passage are arguably more classically correct. But they don't have the huge elastic gaits so beloved by judges, so that's why I think even the best Iberian horses' scores are a bit a 'meh' compared to the top scoring WBs. Whether you think dressage should be judged that way is...well...a can of worms on that other thread.
If you are a muddling amateur who isn't trying to win everything at the FEI levels, I think Iberians are great horses. More than capable of learning the upper level movements, if that is what you want to do, but their gaits won't throw you out of the saddle. I believe some can be super hot and fiery. Mine...not so much.
Burnttoast
Well-Known Member
The warmbloods I rode were 30 years ago (Muschamp breeding competing to GP, a Holstein (PSG), Belgian wb like a bus, a few others) and I found them fine to sit on, just a lot to organise (I am little with short legs). Things may well be *very* different now, but the training will still make a big difference when it comes to how easy they are to sit on.
Iberians are (mostly) much more easy to organise and collect, and therefore more functional for the average person. If tense, though, some Iberians can become extremely choppy, which is horrible for all concerned.
Iberians are (mostly) much more easy to organise and collect, and therefore more functional for the average person. If tense, though, some Iberians can become extremely choppy, which is horrible for all concerned.
j1ffy
Well-Known Member
My three PREs have all been very different - Pocholo is confident and easy but needs motivation, Indio was a great balance of forward but safe with decent paces, Chilli far too tense and speedy. All three have had a good ability to collect but that's only a small part of dressage and working up the 'scales of training' isn't straightforward with a PRE in my limited experience. Relaxation (and therefore rhythm) can be hard as they want to please, are intelligent and therefore anticipate; suppleness suffers for the same reason, and also because they are compact and often tend to be leg-movers so you have to work very hard to have them working truly through from behind and over the back; contact suffers because of this.
However they are such kind, fun and generally gorgeous horses that all the above can be overcome if you have one with the right mindset (Chilli definitely didn't have that!). I can't speak for Lusitanos but there do seem to be more of them than PREs at the higher levels so I suspect their dressage-focused breeding programmes have been more successful than the PRE equivalent.
I've had two warmbloods on loan, again both very different and at very different levels of training. My experience of them has been that it's easier to get them consistent in rhythm, more consistently 'through' and steadier in the contact. Both have been quite lazy and needed a lot of work to get them in front of the leg but obviously there are more motivated warmbloods out there (I'd prefer a sharp PRE to a sharp warmblood - they're generally easier to sit!!). They do feel more athletic to sit on with a different type of power to the PRE, and harder to sit...especially Sammy!
I do think that with a warmblood it is easier to get the foundations in place, which has surprised me. However PREs are forgiving, comfortable (except a tense one, which can feel like sitting on a pogo stick) and usually generous.
ETA: FWIW I'll be horse hunting this year and I'm going to be looking at warmbloods rather than Iberians, but not leg-flinging ones and definitely nothing that's been produced for continental auctions! Ideally something that's been brought on quietly with lots of hacking as I don't want to be constricted to an arena...
However they are such kind, fun and generally gorgeous horses that all the above can be overcome if you have one with the right mindset (Chilli definitely didn't have that!). I can't speak for Lusitanos but there do seem to be more of them than PREs at the higher levels so I suspect their dressage-focused breeding programmes have been more successful than the PRE equivalent.
I've had two warmbloods on loan, again both very different and at very different levels of training. My experience of them has been that it's easier to get them consistent in rhythm, more consistently 'through' and steadier in the contact. Both have been quite lazy and needed a lot of work to get them in front of the leg but obviously there are more motivated warmbloods out there (I'd prefer a sharp PRE to a sharp warmblood - they're generally easier to sit!!). They do feel more athletic to sit on with a different type of power to the PRE, and harder to sit...especially Sammy!
I do think that with a warmblood it is easier to get the foundations in place, which has surprised me. However PREs are forgiving, comfortable (except a tense one, which can feel like sitting on a pogo stick) and usually generous.
ETA: FWIW I'll be horse hunting this year and I'm going to be looking at warmbloods rather than Iberians, but not leg-flinging ones and definitely nothing that's been produced for continental auctions! Ideally something that's been brought on quietly with lots of hacking as I don't want to be constricted to an arena...
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millitiger
Well-Known Member
They're very comfortable, like sitting on a conveyor belt!
I found they struggle a little more with lateral flexion and suppleness which can make them look tight and they find it harder to really swing through their backs and connect, which tends to impact their scores.
It depends what you are looking for.
A fun horse to train up and enjoy riding, especially if you like them a little more sensitive, yes.
A horse to win national titles on at BD and get 70%+ on every time out, probably not.
I found they struggle a little more with lateral flexion and suppleness which can make them look tight and they find it harder to really swing through their backs and connect, which tends to impact their scores.
It depends what you are looking for.
A fun horse to train up and enjoy riding, especially if you like them a little more sensitive, yes.
A horse to win national titles on at BD and get 70%+ on every time out, probably not.
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
We had a Muschamp mare. She was a lot of horse, very substantial. But she was easier to ride than the leg flingers that are bred today.
daffy44
Well-Known Member
I've ridden both, but more wbs than Iberians, but I find the wbs more comfortable. I agree with everything @j1ffy says about Iberians, but personally I find them less comfortable to sit to, but that could be because I haven't ridden as many.
The wbs I've ridden have tended more towards German than Dutch lines, and haven't been the flinging spider legs types, but still big moving, and I've never found any of them uncomfortable or difficult to sit to, I just love riding them, and no, I don't have a chair seat.
The wbs I've ridden have tended more towards German than Dutch lines, and haven't been the flinging spider legs types, but still big moving, and I've never found any of them uncomfortable or difficult to sit to, I just love riding them, and no, I don't have a chair seat.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I think Jiffy has it pretty much spot on!
I’ve only ridden school horses in Portugal and found them great fun to ride. But I think primarily because they were trained and kept in an environment that suited them. Warmbloods are such a wide variety of types that it’s so difficult to generalise. But the big moving big framed dressage bred ones are not my cup of tea to ride. Far to much horse for me to ride effectively.
I’ve only ridden school horses in Portugal and found them great fun to ride. But I think primarily because they were trained and kept in an environment that suited them. Warmbloods are such a wide variety of types that it’s so difficult to generalise. But the big moving big framed dressage bred ones are not my cup of tea to ride. Far to much horse for me to ride effectively.
rara007
Well-Known Member
I don’t think Iberian’s are the way to look if we’re looking for longer frames and less tension…!
Cloball
Well-Known Member
I have only ridden Hispano Arabs rather than PRE and jumping bred warmbloods (one of which put my back out he was that hard to sit).
I think half the problem is we have been told for so long that you HAVE to ride these big warmbloods in a certain way because they are so big and big moving, to contain them and sit to them. They continue to be bred bigger and bigger moving. It becomes a vicious cycle/ self fulfilling prophecy. Imo there's seems to be little appetite to do anything any differently. I also think you see a much nicer picture with the lighter blood types.
I think half the problem is we have been told for so long that you HAVE to ride these big warmbloods in a certain way because they are so big and big moving, to contain them and sit to them. They continue to be bred bigger and bigger moving. It becomes a vicious cycle/ self fulfilling prophecy. Imo there's seems to be little appetite to do anything any differently. I also think you see a much nicer picture with the lighter blood types.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
The most uncomfortable warmbloods are that way because of dysfunction, from training AND breeding, and I don't think Iberian horses, or any others, fully escape it on either front. I've not ridden one personally (that I can remember, maybe a part bred way back when) but I have seen more than one dysfunctional Iberian, especially the 16hh+ ones.
U.N.Owen
Well-Known Member
Iberians can be ridden to be soft and out in the neck etc, but the ridden culture in Spain etc is to razz them up on purpose for showing off etc. They are good fun but like very specific riding and handling and can be very stressy/difficult if you get it wrong.
Warmbloods are much easier to ride for dressage but can sometimes be lazy and ungenerous.
Warmbloods are much easier to ride for dressage but can sometimes be lazy and ungenerous.
