Dressage horses with shivers

[flippa_t]

I’ve been offered a beautiful dressage bred warmblood who has mild shivers.
He is available to me at a heavily reduced price because of it and his owner (my trainer who is a GP rider) says it does not currently affect him and he knows several top level peers competing horses at FEI level dressage with Shivers (including En Vogue).
The horse is rising 6yrs old and c.17hh.

I’ve just lost a horse due to wobblers so at the mention of something neurological I’m tempted to run a mile.

However he is the type of horse I could never normally dream of affording, and so I don’t know if I’m over reacting if he’s very likely to be able to have a competitive career (aim is small tour) and I’ll regret turning him down.

I know there is no crystal ball but what are people’s experiences of normal competitive lives for horses with Shivers.

Thanks!

 

[Cortez]

I know/knew of a couple of horses competing at FEI levels with mild shivers. It didn’t seem to affect them, nor did it progress. The person to talk to is obviously a neuro vet.

 

[ihatework]

I wouldn’t necessarily discount the right horse with a mild shiver. But I would want a good independent neuro vet assessment.

 

[Red-1]

I have dealt with horses with shivers, you need a good farrier on board as shoeing was the tricky bit in the horses I knew. IME, it does progress.

However, for the right horse, right now, at the right price, I would consider it for myself.

 

[ycbm]

I would consider it on the basis of better the devil you know. I would try and keep it without shoes behind because of the farriery issues, budget to keep it loaded full of vitamin E, get the opinion of a neuro vet before parting with any cash, and hope for the best.
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[Pidgeon]

I’ve been offered a beautiful dressage bred warmblood who has mild shivers.
He is available to me at a heavily reduced price because of it and his owner (my trainer who is a GP rider) says it does not currently affect him and he knows several top level peers competing horses at FEI level dressage with Shivers (including En Vogue).
The horse is rising 6yrs old and c.17hh.

I’ve just lost a horse due to wobblers so at the mention of something neurological I’m tempted to run a mile.

However he is the type of horse I could never normally dream of affording, and so I don’t know if I’m over reacting if he’s very likely to be able to have a competitive career (aim is small tour) and I’ll regret turning him down.

I know there is no crystal ball but what are people’s experiences of normal competitive lives for horses with Shivers.

Thanks!

My boy has had this since I bought him aged 8. He is now coming up for 27yo and only now are we looking to go barefoot behind. He is so much better being on NAF D-Tox, daily, increasing in Spring and Autumn as the grass flushes seem to make it worse. Also helps that I taught him to pick his hind feet out by resting his toe on the ground. Never affected his flatwork or jumping.

 

[ThreeFurs]

Thanks flippa_t for posting.

A few months ago I was approached by a friend of a friend to exercise, or free on-property loan, her Welsh Cob x wb/tb gelding. He's 15, done very little and mostly lived his life as a nicely put together paddock ornament, with a beautiful quiet soft nature and yes, mild shivers. The owner has her own health problems and might pull him out once or twice a year for a ride and feels he's wasted.

We share a farrier, so I was able to ask him about shoeing the shivers horse and he said it was fine, just had to take his time and wait for horse to lift hind leg on command. This gelding does run backwards out of floats [trailers?] I think because the disease affects their proprioception [sense of where you are in space] of their back legs, so the ramp is difficult.

I've not said yes or no, but I have ridden the gelding once, whose green but sweet. I have also been thinking about making the owner an offer to buy ... but then worried as shivers is progressive.

Bump/ditto all of the advice given above. Also, how would you go with the rein backs that are in most dressage tests? As I understand its stepping back that can be difficult [though clearly hasn't bothered En Vogue]

 

[ycbm]

TF it sounds as if your friends horse is a wobbler? I wasn't aware that shivers without being a wobbler with an identifiable constriction on the spinal cord affects the horse's ability to feel where its back legs are. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

I've had a wobbler, one of the dressage horses with a huuuuge trot (as they stay up in the air trying to work out where to put their feet back down again! ) . He was fantastic, just learning tempi changes at 10 years old after 6 years of ownership when the pressure on the malformed bones at C4/5 in his neck broke the edge of C5, and from then on he walked like a drunkard.

I'm not sure I'd knowingly buy a wobbler at any price, knowing that the progression can be a step change like that, but I guess it would depend on the severity of the x rays.
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[Birker2020]

TF it sounds as if your friends horse is a wobbler? I wasn't aware that shivers without being a wobbler with an identifiable constriction on the spinal cord affects the horse's ability to feel where its back legs are. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

I've had a wobbler, one of the dressage horses with a huuuuge trot (as they stay up in the air trying to work out where to put their feet back down again! ) . He was fantastic, just learning tempi changes at 10 years old when the pressure on the malformed bones at C4/5 in his neck broke the edge of C5, and from then on he walked like a drunkard.

I'm not sure I'd knowingly buy a wobbler at any price, knowing that the progression can be a step change like that, but I guess it would depend on the severity of the x rays.
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Correct YCBM.

As you know I had a wobblers horse too and there is a marked difference.

I think I've mentioned before I suspect Lari might be a very mild stringhalt. I've seen him walk a bit 'John Cleese' like with his hind leg under him and there is something that just strikes me as odd at times with his hind legs.

Shiverer horses on the otherhand are very reluctant to back up though which might explain why threefurs believes it's due to lack of proprioception. It's actually to do with the misfiring of flexor and extensor muscles due to a degeneration in the part of the brain that controls movement. Apparently, as with wobblers more common in geldings, WB's, TB's and QH and those over 16.3hh.

About a minute into this fascinating but sad video you can see the issues this horse has with backing up. He tries to stabilise himself with his off fore as he feels unbalanced. I've read on another thread that a horse with shivers used to run off the trailer backwards fast so it must be a common thing with affected animals.

 

[Goldenstar]

I would seriously consider it .
You need to do some research talk to some vets and fully understand the condition .
If you buy him try to mimic his management as much as possible at first ,really understand what his routine was , a change of home is a dangerous time for a horse managing to perform well with an issue .
So unlike those above I would not dream of even thinking of removing shoes behind until I had had him a while .
If you have a horse with something like this you need to know him really well and monitor even more than you do a horse without an issue .

 

[ihatework]

I would seriously consider it .
You need to do some research talk to some vets and fully understand the condition .
If you buy him try to mimic his management as much as possible at first ,really understand what his routine was , a change of home is a dangerous time for a horse managing to perform well with an issue .
So unlike those above I would not dream of even thinking of removing shoes behind until I had had him a while .
If you have a horse with something like this you need to know him really well and monitor even more than you do a horse without an issue .

Exactly this.
The people who can keep a horse with an ‘issue’ consistently performing are the ones to listen to in terms of management - replicate what they do