Dressage people, canter transitions

SpottedCat

SpottedCat

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Ok, so having had the importance of diagonals in trot explained somewhere (wish I could find the post and remember who it was - why have I been riding for 22 years and no-one has told me that?!), it has made me think about trot-canetr transitions, and more specifically the moment when you ask.

I am working on getting my horse working more uphill and off his forehand in canter, and specifically doing the transitions straight and pushing through from behind rather than pulling from in front.

So, to aid this, which shoulder should be coming back as I ask for canter? Outside or inside? I have got myself thoroughly confused thinking about it, and whilst I think I know, please help me out of my confusion!
 
I have been told to have the inside seat bone infront of the outside and to look at the outside ear, my post the other day had about the importance of diagonals which was an eye opener for me - thanks to partoow.

Hope that helps
 
Sorry being dense, look at the outside ear for what?! Or does that just angle your body correctly? I was just assuming that since I want him to push off with the hind, there must be a correct point in the trot to ask this to help him?
 
I had visions of the outside ear actually doing something to clue you in to when to ask!
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ive never heard of looking to see which shoulder is coming back before you ask for canter
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You should just make sure your horse is balanced and through from behind, over the back and infront of the aids. Then just pick the horse up with the inside leg into outside rein to ask for lift of the shoulder in the transition. Make sure you immediately push the canter forwards through the transition aswell, to keep the hindlegs engaged and active.
 
I do all that, don't worry, and I've never heard of it either. But as I'd never known WHY you sit to the diagonal you do, I thought perhaps, as the footfalls in each gait were in a particular sequence, there might be an optimum point in the trot to ask for canter (as the next footfall would be the correct hindleg coming through), and that I'd just not been told about that either!

It was more of a musing on my part really.
 
Well, the first footfall of the canter comes from the outside hind leg. Therefore this leg has to be on the ground in order for the horse to push off into canter. So going from trot, the aid should be given as the inside shoulder comes back as that is when the outside hind leg is coming down.

I've never really thought of it in this way, but I am guessing this would be the reasoning behind it???
 
Madmare - that was what I was thinking of, but then I wondered should it be as outside is back as then the next step would be outside hind coming under, providing more 'thrust' if you like?!

It was more a musing than a 'I have been told to do it this way' - the importance of diagonals got me thinking about footfall sequences, which led me to think about this...that's all!
 
i agree with this. the split-second timing idea is all very well, but horses have different response times, and that millisecond or more while he processes your aid, means a different foot is coming down by then. as long as it's balanced and active and he knows the aid, i think the timing is a question of "when it feels great" not "when such-and-such a shoulder is moving back" etc.
 
hmm... don't forget that there is some argument about whether we should sit on the inside or outside diagonal to help the horse's balance etc. someone very good years ago (Olympic Champ or sth) used to sit to the outside diagonal. confusing, huh?
 
And yet we use other, very precisely timed aids for other things - see the diagonals post. So why not for the canter transition? Not saying you are wrong, just wondering why this is?!
 
You can only influence a specific hind leg when it is on the ground and so preparing to give the fowards thrust. Once the foot is off the ground, even if only fractionally, the only influence you can give is for the leg to kick out. Think physics - all actions have an equal and opposite reaction.

So, how does this relate to canter?

There are two parts to the canter aid. One to tell the horse that you want him to change from trot to canter, and the other to ask for increased activity.

As the horse will learn by repetition, the "code" for "move into canter" can be anything you like - including tickling the outside ear - but the generally accepted method is use of the inside leg and seatbone to generate the energy with the additional code of outside leg sightly back but not active in order to differentiate "please canter" from "more trot" which would be both legs used on the girth.

So, as madmare summarised considerably more succinctly, if you want to ask for the transition when the outside hind is about to produce the thrust, then you need to apply the aids as, or a split second before, it touches down. The outside hind will be off the ground at the same time as the inside fore, so will be coming into contact with the ground as the shoulder is moving back.

So - having analysed trot - anyone like to have a crack at walk to canter?
 
Ask for canter as the inside foreleg touches the ground as this means the next step the horse takes will be with the outside fore/inside hind and it's the inside hind you want to scoop up into canter with your seat
 
I must say when i was riding a well schooled dressage horse he would only canter when he outside hind was on the floor, your outside leg was back behind the girth and inside leg on the girth pushing into the outside contact !!

took me ages to get it right he would just extend if i didnt get it perfect !!
 
Walk to canter is much easier!! ask as the outside hind is about to touch the floor and the inside fore leg is about to go forward, that way the horse will always strike off on the correct leg and the mechanics are pretty much the same as for trot!
 
So does that mean you ask for the canter transition when the inside shoulder is forward because the next step will be inside hind to push off into canter, as opposed to a split second before the inside hind goes down which would be inside shoulder back ? Confusing myself now ....
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The sequence of footfalls in canter is outside hind, inside hind + outside fore, inside fore. So, as the outside hind takes the first step, that's the leg you want your aid to influence.
 
Ah. So its as, or split second before, outside hind goes down which is inside shoulder forward (or outside shoulder back).
Easy.
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Unless youre like me and get things like left and right muddled up ...
My instructor ends up saying things like 'track left .....no, the other left.....'
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