Dressage, the blame culture and hopefully a positive post!

[dressager]

Following on from all the dressage posts regrading training methods at the top, I think we can educate people at the opposite end of the spectrum (ie the average horse owner who dutifully MUST have some interest in their horse's schooling and hence wellbeing) a great deal without just focusing on rollkur as the "wrong" example and with no clear understanding of what is "correct". Nor should people feel this is totally unachievable with their horse, or feel excluded because their horse is not "flashy" enough. Once developing your horse's true potential GENUINELY becomes your main aim and not to just prove yourself in competition, then I think you are finally alighted on the right path! Never mind what other people are doing, you will be able to FEEL what is correct.

There is so much to immerse yourself in these days with regards to books, videos, the internet, forums, demos, lessons on your own horse/lunge horse/schoolmaster that there really should be no excuse for deliberate bad riding which adversely affects the horse, which there is always some evidence of at every show I have ever attended. This can range from the seemingly mild such as nagging constantly with the leg (the horse would likely NOT class this in the mild category, but the rider may think they are kinder to do this than to reinforce the aid) to the aggressive deliberate abuse with whips and spurs.

Therefore if we really want change in the dressage world we need to start with ourselves, its a basic philosophy. There is no point just blaming the offenders if we can't truly understand or ride in kind classical way. Therefore, I would be interested to hear of different ways and nuggets of inspiration which have aided you in your quest to enhance you and your horse which might encourage other people to do the same, as our ultimate goal is really to become the best we can be and pass on our teaching to others for the benefit of horses, and not of our egos. A few of mine:

- so many fantastic books including by Seunig, Herberman, Heuschmann, Podhajsky, Egon von Neindorff, Hinnemann, Zettl, Burger, Zietzschmann...

- visiting the Spanish Riding School. The most important bit for me was seeing the young stallions being allowed some freedom and expression in their work, they were not corrected instantly if accidentally changed legs in canter or became a little excited. This is so important in preserving the spirit of the horse throughout training.

- The dreaded lunge lessons! Despite having ridden for a long while, when I became interested in dressage I was encouraged to have lunge lessons and only then did I truly start to understand how much my own self affects the horse, and absolutely everything "good" or "bad" the horse does is down to me and the horse only reacts. Maybe one day it will come more naturally, but for the moment I will just have to work hard and constantly make adjustments to my riding.

Thank you for reading and please contribute

 

[CrazyMare]

Mine would be -

Not all horses have read the book, so if the first method doesn't work, don't do it harder to reinforce the point. Stop, think, reassess and go back and try in a different manner.

Your horse is a mirror to you. If you are tense, and harsh, the responses your horse gives will be tense. If you are relaxed, your horse will respond as such.

Watch lots of people weather they be good or bad. You can learn just as much from watching something done badly as done well. Take away from it what you think may help you.

 

[camilla4]

Good post Dressager and agree wholeheartedly. I think many of us could benefit enormously by revisiting the works of the really great horsemen - I'm a huge Podhajsky fan and reread his work frequently (am not implying that I am by any means an expert incidentally!). So many of us genuinely mean well by our horses and want to obtain our results without coercion or harm but have been misled by "experts" whose methods may in fact be at odds with our desire for cooperative training.

 

[stacey_lou]

I think dressage is one of those sports that people do not enjoy unless they understand it a little bit like cricket because I do not understand it I find it boring.
Any how, I never really had an interest in dressage untill 4 years ago when I began understading what its was about.

I started learning all the movements and gaits, how they are performed and taught, how they work all the muscles and how I could go about teaching these to my horse myself.
Then I began enjoying it more.Not only that but its a great way to school. So many ppl ride their horses round and round in the school when exercising. I always ride dessage transitions shortening and lenghing my horse stide in differnt gaits and then doing small secitons of tests i know.

I must admit I do not know an awfull lot of dressage but I am still learning in order to improve myself and help my horse plus is kind of vital for eventing lol
I watch and read alot of classes and demos done by Carl Hester and I love the bloke such a soft hand and leg when he rides and he looks at his tatics from both sides his and the horses.

 

[cglen]

Dressage Riding by Richard Watjen, esp the section on the riders seat. very simple clear language and easy to understand, just takes a lot of work to start being able to do it!!

 

[Natch]

"if you always do what you always did, then you'll always get what you always got"

a NH instructor of mine has this philosophy and I think its true of training a horse in any discipline. If it doesn't work, for goodness sake change something! I also like:

"Violence comes when we run out of more effective tools"

 

[Natch]

Mary Wanless, Ride with your mind. Very effective instructor (and subsequet trained instructors) who study what naturally good riders actually do differently to joe bloggs, and how to explain it to joe bloggs in a way that they will inderstand it.

 

[beutifulwobble]

I think bothering to have lessons is a good start!!! Lots of people I know dont and as a result have got into bad habits. I think being open minded and allowing someone else who is able to help you do so its better than reading a million books which can be interpretted wrongly. On th eflipside make sure the instructor is good and can actually help you!!!!

 

[Alibear]

Lunge Lessons are like hens teeth.

No one has the sain horse than can stand up to going round and round in circles on a regular basis. A real shame but if you can get the lessons what do you do.

 

[chestnut cob]

Excellent post Dressager

For me, the turning point came when I changed to a different instructor. I'd spent a long time with people telling me to kick, kick, kick, get his head down etc (if you read this BBs, I don't mean you!

) and knowing there was something wrong with my riding but couldn't correct it. I went to someone different locally and I didn't know she was a Classical instructor, she was just another instructor. A light bulb came on in my head when we spent the whole hour just in walk, working out how to stop me being wonky and teaching me how to use my seat correctly and effectively. After a couple of sessions, I could see for myself how much happier my horse was with this "new" way of working. He is more supple, he enjoys his work, he likes working without all of the pressure of constant asking and nagging, and he puts himself on the bit when I work him in correctly instead of me having to try to tell him.

A friend from another forum recommended me some books, so I read those, and she got me thinking about why and how I was doing things. Made me realise that although it's nice to compete and I do enjoy it, I could get more of a sense of achievement out of purely training with my horse to make him more athletic and gymnastic. Strangely, though it's nice to get rosettes, I get more of a buzz now from having a lesson and learning say a new lateral movement (horse has developed a fascination for shoulder in and LOVES it) than anything else. It's also really helped me to understand my horse better. I now understand that as I say, he loves SI and finds it easy, but he finds other things difficult.

I know what you mean about constantly making adjustments and I wish it would come more naturally to me too! I find that I still quite often have to stop, collect my thoughts and go through in my head first what i'm trying to do otherwise I just end up confusing us both!

I would LOVE to go to the Spanish Riding School. I am very jealous!

 

[spacefaer]

When I trained at a BHS based yard, I learnt various methods of THE way to do things, that all horses would respond to - and that some would be better than others.

Since I left, and have ridden many more horses, some more quirky than others, I have learnt that there are many ways of achieving the end result - and the best way of working out the right technique is to listen to the horse.

The other thing I learnt is that less is more - it takes 2 to pull - if you're not strong, the horse can't be!

 

[millimoo]

I always remember my mums old trainer (who moved south sadly) yelling 'is he carrying you' for weeks.....
Making sure a horse is forward and off the leg is the first step. I've seen riders focussing on pulling a horse into an outline in front before the horse is forward and effectively blocking them or going in an incorrect outline.
I also think Draw reins should be banned - yes they have their purposes in the very short term, but are abused more often than not...... just my opinion

 

[spookypony]

Ah, great thread!

A few things:

1) Use the mirrors. Make it a habit to check your position (and the horse's leggies) constantly.

2) It's hard to learn if neither of you has a clue what you're doing. Though I've been riding for many years, until recently, I've mostly been limited to school horses and/or the insane ponies of friends. Although I have a good theoretical understanding of the subject, I really need some lessons on a dressage schoolmaster to really learn how to ride the more advanced movements.

3) It's really helpful to ride the same horse often. Riding different horses constantly, one feels like one is treading water sometimes. Since I've had the pony, I've become much much more aware of how everything I do affects his way of going---and of his learning process.

4) Even sucky schooling sessions can teach you something!

Today, I had another lightbulb moment. The pony's been going really well, really working into a contact etc., but today, we were both really sluggish. He did his inhand poles with a bit of an attitude of "if I knock one over, I get to grab some grass while she puts it up again". And riding was even worse; it took ages to get him to de-giraffe, with him kicking out angrily whenever I flicked him with the whip. As soon as I got a nice circle or two, I stopped, because there didn't seem to be a point.

I think I learnt the following today, though: the impulsion was lacking completely; ergo, no outline was happening. So if the nice outline happens only when the impulsion is present, that suggests at least that the pony is working properly from behind when I think he is!

Does that even make sense?

 

[f_s_]

A few things I would add:

1) If you can't balance yourself, what hope does the horse have!!! Think constantly about your position, and remember that your head is heavy, keep looking up!!!

2) Listen to your horse, they are not machines and they have off days too!!

3) If you keep pulling at the front, the back will stop!!! Contact should be elastic!!!! To gain impulsion you need to allow the horse to go forward, don't ride with the hand brake on!!

Oh, and watch your walk!! Good things come from a good walk, a gait never to be underestimated IMO!!

Finally, enjoy!!! Even if you make a tiny step forward, reward yourself and your horse, after all, it is a partnership!!

 

[kerilli]

good post.
i spent a lot of ££s on lessons with the wrong people before i found the right one. i think you have to have a trainer who likes your horse (ideally who likes all horses!) who is patient, and whose training is horse-orientated. not easy to find.
i have a lot of the books listed and enjoy them, and sometimes a particular phrase will stand out, but NOTHING compares to having training with someone who can actually adjust your whole attitude.
my trainer was trained by Neindorff, he is endlessly patient with the horses, strict but when necessary humorous with me, and he taught me feel (after another trainer, who i'd used exclusively for a long time, had thrown his hands in the air and said 'it's no good, i can't teach you feel' prompting tears of frustration.) Now i know that that was HIS failure, not mine.
Other inspirations: watching John Lassetter ride at a Trainers' Demo years ago at Keysoe. he rode beautifully the whole time, his horse looked happy and relaxed, they really stood out. He was also the only one to pat his horse the whole time! after that demo there were some 'top trainers' i had very little desire to emulate though.

 

[Rouletterose]

Fabulous post!!!

For me it was searching for a different way, I knew that what I was 'feeling' with my horse wasn't right, although we were competing and being placed, it kept nagging at me all the time. Then I changed instructors to a great lady who is not a 'dressage' rider, the best thing she taught me was to slooooow down. She told me to treat every schooling session as though I had all the time in the world...and never to rush the horse, and to forget about competing until being placed didn't matter. Then the biggest lightbulb moment was when I started to learn about the methods and training of Philippe karl and Anja Beran, a totally different and classical way, as with Podhjasky and I am totally enthralled by them. I have learnt to ride my horse 'up' into a light contact not down between their knees. Now everyday I try and learn and keep to their principles, that's the best I can promise my horse.

 

[cyberhorse]

The secret of riding is to find yourself what I call a mirror horse, one who will reflect every aspect of your riding, feel and temperament.

I rode for years riding lots of different horses and quirky/naughty horses and could generally do fairly well on anything. I had regular lessons and picked up skills and experience, but also however bad habits I was unaware of from riding "remedially" and "defensively".

When I finally at the age of 30 could afford a top quality horse he really pulled my riding apart. He had never been ridden by anyone other than top professionals so he absolutely insisted I did everything correctly and precisely. Ask slightly wrong and he won't budge, get frustrated and he'll have a tantrum, get tense and he'll wind up. After 3 months I was giving up riding for good. However being too bl**dy minded I persisted and now he is my ideal horse along with my sternest critic.

I firmly believe that everyone should have a lesson on/from an excellent but incredibly arrogant schoolmaster a few times every year. The instructor is merely the interpretor - telling you what the horse has picked up about your riding that he/she does not like. A quality horse will give you the feedback you need, tiny things that an instructor would not spot unless the horse showed a reaction. Unfortunately most horses are too nice and accomodating with us and access to quality schoolmasters is not always easy...

 

[JLD]

good post. I have a very unflashy horse always labelled as 'lazy' and not up to much by my first 2 instructors. I was told to sell him and buy a better one. I didnt want to as he is also a saint ( with attitude ).everyone who taught me told me to use sticks and spurs- one had me with 2 sticks. Then I found a new instructor who taught me that he could do nothing until I rode him correctly and from first principles, he does find it very hard - as do I. But she has taught me that it is never the horse it is always me which has been a very hard lesson and painful to learn at times, our progress is painfully slow at times and we go backwards many times but my slow thinking heavy ID x can now at times move with a fluidity and grace I never dreamed of. his paces are not flashy . his steps are shortish, he still cant canter properly ( after 18 months of graft ! ) and he still throws the towel in if it is too hard but for him he has done so well . and thats what I had to learn. He is what he is and I cannot turn him in to something he isnt but I can learn to help him be the best he can be. And I learnt to ride so much better ! I think I have started to grasp the very basics of what dressage is about.

 

[BurntontheoutsideTurkey]

[ QUOTE ]
good post. I have a very unflashy horse always labelled as 'lazy' and not up to much by my first 2 instructors. I was told to sell him and buy a better one. I didnt want to as he is also a saint ( with attitude ).everyone who taught me told me to use sticks and spurs- one had me with 2 sticks. Then I found a new instructor who taught me that he could do nothing until I rode him correctly and from first principles, he does find it very hard - as do I. But she has taught me that it is never the horse it is always me which has been a very hard lesson and painful to learn at times, our progress is painfully slow at times and we go backwards many times but my slow thinking heavy ID x can now at times move with a fluidity and grace I never dreamed of. his paces are not flashy . his steps are shortish, he still cant canter properly ( after 18 months of graft ! ) and he still throws the towel in if it is too hard but for him he has done so well . and thats what I had to learn. He is what he is and I cannot turn him in to something he isnt but I can learn to help him be the best he can be. And I learnt to ride so much better ! I think I have started to grasp the very basics of what dressage is about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said, and illustrates one of the things that bothers me about competitive dressage (even more so since Totilas, for some reason): every horse deserves correct training, not just the flashy ones. Dressage is only training, after all! The owners of my share horse occasionally say hopelessly "well, I know he's not your dream horse", and maybe he isn't (sounds just like yours, actually, JLD), but he's a sweet boy with a difficult past and he deserves to be soft and supple and relaxed for once in his life, which we are slowly achieving. I don't care if we never do a test; in fact I'd rather not ask him to, since he doesn't enjoy pressure much. I would feel dreadful abandoning him for some posher model. Rant over. Ahem. I'm very sorry, PMS to blame, I fear.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

great post.

-all horses are capable of movements to a greater or lesser extent-if your horse can't do it then the fault is yours!
-ride the horse and not the movement
-work on your position constantly-look to yourself for blame, are you sure you arent blocking the horse somewhere-are you really that good?
-good horsemanship begins on the ground-good groundwork is the basis for everything
-if your horse offers something, take it-does it really matter he took the wrong lead at that moment? take it as counter canter-make it good and go back to it.

read, read, read and if you can't read watch DVDs

read from the German school-Herbermann, von Neindorf. then read from the French school-Karl, Racinet, Baucher. even if you dont like what they do you will learn something!
watch Anja Beren to know that you can ride a big moving WB without looking like you are having some sort of fit, watch high level working equitation on youtube, watch Hemplfing

Ignore the modern Dutch school

and Linda Parelli...

 

[dressager]

Thank you for all your contributions

Just got back soaked from the yard and was nice to read all of them.

Lol at Dutch_Viscount's last comment! I agree too, but will keep my thoughts for other threads haha

 

[luckyhorseshoe]

Great post.

For me having lessons on a schoolmaster was a turning point, in my understanding of how it should 'feel'.

Lunge lessons and no stirrups is something i am trying to work out. Thanks to an understanding pony who is forgiving the practice is helping my position.

Having regular lessons with a knowledgeable, understandable trainer who i trust has seen a great improvement in my riding.

 

[Rouletterose]

Loved your last sentence, couldn't agree more

 

[Hollycat]

Like so many others have said, I think its finding the right instructer that finally made things click for me.

I didn't have a horse at the time and went to a local riding school for lessons. I explained I was interested in dressage. I had ridden all of my life, including top competition horses, on PC teams etc etc so in no way a beginner. We spent a month on the lunge. He then taught me to effectively ride every horse in that school. I rode the horses used for 1st time beginner riders and was expected to get them sharp off the leg, forwards and working in a nice outline. The horse that bucked everyone off, was ridden in a gag and ran away with everyone (which was in for schooling and only ridden by in the instructors and me) he had me riding without stirrups and without reins in walk, trot and canter. It never bucked or tried to run off with me. I always remember some of the other instructors watching in amazement as I cantered this horse round the school with no reins and no stirrups.

He taught me that every time I sat on a horse it was a privillage and that the horse deserved my absolute respect - whether it be a £10 pony from the market or a £1 million comp horse. He taught me how to adapt and how to ride every horse I encountered so the horse was happy and confident. I will never forget him and will always value those lessons. I wish I knew who trained him but I know it was in France and must have been classical

However not everyone wants to learn how to ride well. It is very sad, but many people at lower as well as upper levels have no real sympathy or love for their horses. They enjoy riding and winning rosettes as one would enjoy riding a bike. Those people I am not sure will ever be changed

 

[camilla4]

Sounds like an amazing instructor Hollycat - who was he? Apologies if you've already mentioned it somewhere further back in the thread!

 

[dressager]

Sounds like a fantastic trainer Hollycat. You're right, people who think they can ride well already don't like having their position etc taken apart on the lunge which is a real shame. In this country it seems only beginners and perhaps dressage enthusiasts have lunge lessons. There is no good training system of learning on schoolmasters first, so many people buy unsuitable young horses and end up with problems. It is definitely difficult to change people as you say, as not everyone can take a bruising to their ego... I guess this reflects their attitudes to life in general...

Part of the problem in the horse world is knowing who to take advice from I think, as often the real good trainers don't need to to shout to be heard and may not advertise and be "out there" as much as some other competition orientated trainers.