Dressage - when are you ready to move up a level?

wellsat

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When do you think you are ready to move up a level in dressage? Interested in people's opinions as seeing real variety in competitors locally.
 

PucciNPoni

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I'm interested in this question too.

I have generally just relied on my RI to tell me when she thinks we're capable of moving up. With my last horse the answer was like "never!!" LOL. The horse I have now she's sort of giving me a regular kick up the backside to do it.

In theory I would have liked to have said "when I win consistently at the current level with a score of 65% plus". However, I have yet to win a class...lots of seconds though - and generally all between 65% to 75% scores. Hmph.
 

Dizzydusty

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Competition wise, I moved up when we were happy at working to the next level, however, my lad is a little odd in the fact we now compete at novice level, and do not too bad but our medium trot is absolute pants. I am considering trying elementary though, as he is very capable of lateral work and loads of other elementary moves....just not medium trot. He does go much better in a double too.

We could have happily stayed at prelim level for the rest of our days, which he does consistently well at, but I like to feel that I am improving and that my horse is improving and I do like a challenge!
 

trendybraincell

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I don't think it's as simple as when you're scoring above 65% each time. My boy has been plus 65% at Novice since his first affiliated test but that certainly didn't mean he/we were ready for the step up to Elementary! You need to bare in mind that you tend to loose a a good percentage of your performance in a test (nerves etc.) so I think you need you be well established at the level above which you wish to compete (to be truly competitive). This is will obviously be different for each horse, and some will always struggle at one level but do better at the next. It's not uncommon, like Dizzydusty, to struggle with things like medium at Novice but then be able to make up for a poor mark for that movement with good marks for the rest of an Elementary test.
 

PaddyMonty

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If Unaff then I would say when you are comfortable dooing the movements required at the upper level. When moving up I would do 1 test at the lower level and one at the higher for a few comps.

If BD then it gets a bit more complicated as rider group changes once a certain amount of points are won at the higher level forcing rider to enter open section at lower level. There also can come a time where you have to move up due to having too many points at the lower level. This is what forced my OH to move up to Adv.Med as she gained too many points to compete medium with current horse.
 

Tempi

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If affliated I personally like to be comfortably schooling at home at least a level above the level I am competing. Scores are irrelevant IMO, its the way of going of the horse and how correct the schooling is.
 

Prince33Sp4rkle

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ditto tempi.

i dont compete over much (tend to take winter off, and do 2 comps a month rest of year), so dont gain masses of scores at each level if you know what i mean.

CS has done 8 shows at medium, scoring 61-66%. he has done 1 adv med scoring 61%.

he'll probably do a max of a further 5 shows at adv med, and we will each finish 2011 with a crack at adv100 or start next year with a go at it.

its more about the progression of training, and i do look at my show results to show me where i need to sharpen up my training at home.
 

Pachamama

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If affliated I personally like to be comfortably schooling at home at least a level above the level I am competing. Scores are irrelevant IMO, its the way of going of the horse and how correct the schooling is.
Hmm, but if the horse is going well, then surely the scores would reflect this? If you're getting 5s and 6s across the board, then wouldn't that suggest that more work needs to be done before moving on?
 

Thistle

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I think there are lots of sides to the equation

Firstly and I feel most importantly, listen to your trainer (assuming you have one who knows the BD system), also ingnore well meaning advice from self professed dressage 'experts' on internet forums! After all a certain horse who has now done 3 BD elementeries, come 2nd once and won twice, all with mid 60's scores was pronounced as being 'good for prelim and may just manage a novice by the end of the summer!'

Secondly, time spent putting the foundations in is never time wasted. Moving up the levels isn't just about 'doing the moves' it's about the whole package. producing a sane and sensible horse that can cope in a competition atmosphere.

Personally I would want test results with a good proportion of 7's and one or two eights at the lower level before the move up. I also feel that you need to know why you got a 4 or 5 for a movement, and why it went wrong, even before you get the sheet back. Then you are starting to have 'feel' and an understanding of what is required.

If we went out BS and put the horse in a 1.30 just because it can jump 1.40 at home, having done one or two classes at a lower level there would be an outcry, especially if you riding was only worthy of a '5'. So why not the same in dressage.

(mini rant, I sometime see lovely horses, being ridden very poorly, often by an overweight rider struggling to sit to the trot, and balancing on the curb rein of a double, scores mid 50's at elem, why not a) go rising and b) use a snaffle if their hands aren't good enough c) do the level below?, this goes back to my first point of using a good trainer!)
 
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Tempi

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Hmm, but if the horse is going well, then surely the scores would reflect this? If you're getting 5s and 6s across the board, then wouldn't that suggest that more work needs to be done before moving on?

Sorry, i was meaning scores are irrelevant as in just because you are scoring 65% at a certain level dosent mean you are necessarily ready to move up to the next level. Its all about the way of going and what level you are schooling at comfortably at home etc.
 

PucciNPoni

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The other part of the question could also be - when are you ready to start schooling up to the next level versus when are you ready to compete at the next level?
 

Pachamama

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Sorry, i was meaning scores are irrelevant as in just because you are scoring 65% at a certain level dosent mean you are necessarily ready to move up to the next level. Its all about the way of going and what level you are schooling at comfortably at home etc.

Ahh, ok, my misunderstanding.
 

Pachamama

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Secondly, time spent putting the foundations in is never time wasted. Moving up the levels isn't just about 'doing the moves' it's about the whole package. producing a sane and sensible horse that can cope in a competition atmosphere.
This! Even if your horse is working well at home, if he's blowing up in the collecting ring, then surely he's not ready mentally.

If we went out BS and put the horse in a 1.30 just because it can jump 1.40 at home, having done one or two classes at a lower level there would be an outcry, especially if you riding was only worthy of a '5'. So why not the same in dressage.
And this.
 

PapaFrita

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Sorry, i was meaning scores are irrelevant as in just because you are scoring 65% at a certain level dosent mean you are necessarily ready to move up to the next level. Its all about the way of going and what level you are schooling at comfortably at home etc.

So to summarise, even if your scores are good you (or horse) may not be ready to move up, but if your scores are rubbish, then you're definitely not? :)
Would there be a cutoff score below which moving up is out of the question?
 

Tempi

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Someone can be well established at say Novice level BD and getting decent scores, but it dosent necessarily mean that they or their horse are ready to move up to elementary level. It depends on what level the horse is comfortably schooling at at home etc.

Ive seen many riders do a good novice test and then go in and do an elementary test and not get a decent score at all because they simply aren't ready.

Its all up to horse and rider IMO, everyone schools and trains in different ways and everyone will move up when they feel ready its not for other people to say.
 

Thistle

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Someone can be well established at say Novice level BD and getting decent scores, but it dosent necessarily mean that they or their horse are ready to move up to elementary level. It depends on what level the horse is comfortably schooling at at home etc.

Ive seen many riders do a good novice test and then go in and do an elementary test and not get a decent score at all because they simply aren't ready.

Its all up to horse and rider IMO, everyone schools and trains in different ways and everyone will move up when they feel ready its not for other people to say.


Which all comes back to my point of having a good trainer, or having sufficient feel to know when you are ready.
 

PaddyMonty

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On the other hand. ;)
With dressage you can always just have a go at the higher level and see how you get on. Worst that can happen is you get a terrible score, come out of the ring feeling like the ground should swallow you up and go back to lower level.
IIRC they no longer shoot people for crapo tests :p
Its not like jumping where there can be serious (often painful) problems if your ambition exceeds your / horses ability.
Only prob with this is if you are competing BD and bringing horse on to sell, you probably wouldn't want a test score of 50% (or less) on its record.

Other option is do what my OH does. If in doubt or suspect a poor performance she get me to do the riding thereby allowing the rider to be blamed instead of the horse :eek: :eek:
 

BronsonNutter

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With dressage you can always just have a go at the higher level and see how you get on. Worst that can happen is you get a terrible score, come out of the ring feeling like the ground should swallow you up and go back to lower level.
IIRC they no longer shoot people for crapo tests :p
Its not like jumping where there can be serious (often painful) problems if your ambition exceeds your / horses ability.
Only prob with this is if you are competing BD and bringing horse on to sell, you probably wouldn't want a test score of 50% (or less) on its record.

That, basically. If you want to 'have a go' at a higher level test when you're not ready to be competitive, it's very unlikely that you'll knock the horse's confidence or injure them or similar - the worst that tends to happen is you get a rubbish mark and that someone laughs at you.

Wibbles was nowhere near 'ready' to go and start doing novices by most of your standards - we'd only ever won one test and were getting high 50s/low 60s at prelim. He then went out and got the same scores at novice (would be mid-high 60s but his mediums fluctuate between exciting or non-existent!). We gets mainly 7s for collectives, so the basis is there, just that the test is not consistent all the way through. If he's not sold by next weekend we might tackle an elementary, which neither of us have done before, he has only *just* started collected work, and we won't get a 'good' score or placing, but I want to have a go at one before he goes and why shouldn't I?
 
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