Drinking a lot, not gaining weight, any ideas?

JillA

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Vet has been and taken bloods for ACTH/liver and kidney function but I wondered if anyone had any ideas I could put into his head :)

Horse is 19, always been a good doer and greedy with it, since his episode of laminitis last year he has been moving better than he ever has, so no low level soreness in his feet. He is not cleaning up his feeds, has gone right off Equibeet, but that might be partly accounted for by the fact that he hates a mineral supplement I am trying to get him on.

He has not gained any of the weight lost, despite being on the same rations as every other year. He eats about the same amount of fodder as other years, always has some left but I give him enough to do that because I don't want him empty by morning.

He is on Prascend, 1mg/day, and ACTH level was 18 last August, he also tested negative for IR but is on a low sugar diet anyway.

He has been drinking upwards of 35 litres of water a night plus whatever he gets in the field in the day.
I collected a urine sample to dip for glucose levels and was surprised that it was reasonably dark, despite all that water intake.

Teeth done recently, no reaction on usual ulcer meridians but did react when vet palpated his back, over his loins, even though he hasn't been ridden since last June (laminitis). No other risk factors for ulcers, certainly not since he completed his box rest in October, daily 7 hours turnout, no stress, no empty stomach, plenty of fibre in his diet. Vet thought it unlikely to be ulcers for that reason.

He has been uncharacteristically grumpy, as though he is defending some sort of painful part of his body, except with me.
Overdue for worming but my pasture is relatively clean, all FECS within the last 5 or 6 years have been no eggs seen.

Anyone have any similar experience? Poor lad looks like a very old horse, whereas he has always been in what we euphemistically call "show condition" lol Thanks for reading, any experience/suggestions welcome - I think I have included all the relevant info.
 
my horse gets very lethargic and grumpy when her acth levels have risen....she also stops eating normally and starts to lose weight..when I see these symptoms is when I get the vet to take bloods and every time I have been proved right(unfortunately) and once her prascend has been increased she goes back to normal. mine is 25 next month and was diagnosed in 2011 and her levels have gradually risen over the last few years and she is now on 4 prascend daily so she is on borrowed time......
 
Thanks both - seems it could be too much or too little Prascend, will discuss with my vet which way to go. Still doesn't explain the excess water intake, maybe that is something entirely different, just coincidence.
 
PPID can cause the excessive drinking (my vet asked me about it when mine was diagnosed) and Prascend is known for potentially having an effect on their appetite and behavioural changes could also be either of the two. I've been having real, real issues with mine and his weight this year. I'm also in the process of fine tuning his supplements and he's a bit on and off with his feed (wants it in a morning, is a bit "meh" on a night when he's got hay/haylage as well, definitely prefers forage over feed). Tbh he could be a bit on and off with feed even before the PPID so I'm not 100% sure that is the problem with mine but it likely doesn't help! I've noticed mine is definitely drinking more than he used to (very rarely used to drain a water bucket and I plan on getting him a bigger one / an extra one at the weekend as he's starting to) but can't decide if PPID related or if it's cos I'm gradually increasing amount of salt he gets (as per forage analysis). Mine's due testing again in a couple of months so will be interesting to see what his values are doing.

I'd say play around with his feed (there's loads of low sugar, tasty options with herbs and other loveliness added out there)
 
So bloody typical of my horse - all came back normal. ACTH at 28, in line with previous results of 18 and 20, even if there was a false negative for some reason, it wouldn't be in all three, they are consistent. Other bloods didn't show anything, not even high levels of glucose or creatine etc.
So the next step is a few days on a form of bute to rule out pain, then a course of peptizole or similar to rule out ulcers, subject to the results of a urine test on a sample I will collect in the morning.
Other than that probably just tinkering with the Prascend dose once we have ruled out other stuff.
It's (very expensive) detective work from now on - any other suggestions on a postcard please. The grumpiness is getting worse (that'll be me, not him lol, waiting for him to provide a urine sample in the morning!)
 
Try a course of protexein recover aid/gut balancer. It helps the hind gut work more effectively which will help your horse pull more nutrition out of what he is eating. My horse (having had everything wrong with him in the last 18months!) went through a very poor stage and this really helped him recover, I am convinced he had some sort of viral/bacterial infection and he became very allergic to alfalfa having eaten it for years, so now just gets a grass based feed with a few herbs thrown in and I am just trying the progressive earth mineral supplement in case there is lack of something important in his grass/hay.

Am pleased to say this week for the first time in a long long time he looks full of life and sound to boot - quite a relieve as it's been a near run thing at several points this year! Maybe spring fever is helping, the the protexein certainly gave him a boost when he needed it!
 
And still no answers (BethH will bear the protexein in mind, thank you, although he has been on a probiotic - yeassac - for several months now).
We are attempting diagnosis by therapy, and tried a short course of bute in case it was all pain related. He was slightly improved, eating his feeds and drinking about 30 ltrs of water as opposed to the 40 he was drinking before, but now it is out of his system he is back to what he was like before. Urine sample tested and nothing revealed, vet is on leave for a week and when he gets back, so long as I haven't had to call his assistant, we are going to try Peptizole to eliminate ulcers. I am reluctant to try Nexium or anything correspondingly cheaper because if it doesn't make a difference we won't know whether it's that or there are no ulcers to heal.
Any other ideas gratefully considered, vet is running out of ideas now.
 
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Mine was on brewers yeast but did better on protexein. (Apparently loads more good bacteria in it which allows more to reach the hind gut rather than being killed on the way through the gut than the usual supplements) - might be worth calling them for a chat, they were very helpful when I spoke to them. Fingers crossed you get it sorted.
 
Try asking Andrea on thelaminitissite forum, she may have some ideas, there are also recommendations for feed on there. I'd personally Up his prascend, as you should treat the symptoms not just the acth reading. So try upping by half a tablet and see how he is after a week or two, might just surprise you!
 
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