Driving Cobs vs Riding Cobs

[LEC]

I was thinking about this yesterday. Do driving cobs suffer less issues than ridden cobs with aspects such as soft tissue injury's, suspensorys and arthritis because they are actually doing the job they are bred for vs cobs who are ridden and are doing things like circles/dressage/jumping which they are not bred for? I know nothing about driving so just interested, I guess anecdotally as there will be no data on this.

I was watching the 3yo gypsy cob which is on the yard and destined to go driving and its the most ungainly thing ever so will be fine pulling a cart but it would be a round peg and square hole situation if put under saddle.

 

[stangs]

In general, I think that lots of circling on soft ground is bad for all horses, regardless of whether they were originally bred for being under saddle or not, and that all horses can adapt to their roles over time. But maybe more back issues with a cob because short backs = good for pushing and less good for saddle fitting?

Personally am very eager to find data comparing (leg) injury rates between horses trained for flat races and horses trained for harness races. Both sides start their horses at two, I believe.

 

[ester]

are we talking driving like hacking driving, or trials driving - which involves quite a lot of circles, and turns that are probably more extreme than many do ridden?

 

[LEC]

are we talking driving like hacking driving, or trials driving - which involves quite a lot of circles, and turns that are probably more extreme than many do ridden?

Not what you guys do - I was thinking more the average gypsy cob. So like they do ridden - low level

 

[LEC]

[QUOTE="stangs, post: 14769620, member: 155806"

Personally am very eager to find data comparing (leg) injury rates between horses trained for flat races and horses trained for harness races. Both sides start their horses at two, I believe.[/QUOTE]

the best breed societies for capturing data are KWPN and Swedish Warmblood so won’t help you! They tend to have detailed research work into longevity and injury. I have never seen anything for racing. My guess is because so much would happen in training it’s just not captured.

 

[eahotson]

I was thinking about this yesterday. Do driving cobs suffer less issues than ridden cobs with aspects such as soft tissue injury's, suspensorys and arthritis because they are actually doing the job they are bred for vs cobs who are ridden and are doing things like circles/dressage/jumping which they are not bred for? I know nothing about driving so just interested, I guess anecdotally as there will be no data on this.

I was watching the 3yo gypsy cob which is on the yard and destined to go driving and its the most ungainly thing ever so will be fine pulling a cart but it would be a round peg and square hole situation if put under saddle.

Its a common misconception that anything can pull a cart.A decent driving horse (any) like a decent riding horse needs good conformation, proper schooling and should definately not be on the forehand. The Parkers horses were all ride and drive and were very well schooled for both.

 

[rabatsa]

I have had a couple of traveller bred animals and both had arthritis, one in his knees and the other hocks and SI. Both had been hammered down the roads at very fast paces at a young age.

 

[rara007]

[QUOTE="stangs, post: 14769620, member: 155806"

Personally am very eager to find data comparing (leg) injury rates between horses trained for flat races and horses trained for harness races. Both sides start their horses at two, I believe.

The trotting guys do put a lot into research actually:

https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1746-6148-10-11

 

[stangs]

Thank you, rara007, very interesting.

In case anyone's reading this and wants a quick summary of their results:
- incidence rates (of musculoskeletal injuries) didn't vary significantly across ages, gender, or racing speed (although the "flying trot" does come with an increased load on suspensories)
- catastrophic injuries like suspensory breakdowns weren't really found with racing standardbreds unlike with racing TBs
- higher racing intensities resulted in lower incidence rates
- 92.9% of the horses that started training during the study sustained a musculoskeletal injury
- no significant difference in musculoskeletal injuries between unshod and shod horses
- overall, very different incidence rates between TBs (both NH and flat) and standardbreds so difficult to compare

 

[Nudibranch]

Of the two driving cob types I've had long term, one was sound until very old age. She did some competing, and lots of long distance driving. The other is 17 and starting to show signs of arthritis behind. Before I had her she was a logging pony, and apparently went through Appleby at some point so her full history is unknown.
Her conformation is good, she's a Fell x of lovely type, but I suppose she worked hard at some points in her life.
I don't think there will ever be a definitive answer as horses vary so much in conformation, type, genetics and life experience so you can't ever really compare.

 

[tristar]

Its a common misconception that anything can pull a cart.A decent driving horse (any) like a decent riding horse needs good conformation, proper schooling and should definately not be on the forehand. The Parkers horses were all ride and drive and were very well schooled for both.

i always understood driving horses are best schooled under saddle first

 

[tristar]

in general, if a horse has a talent for something and finds it easy, its going to get less wear and tear, rider use permitting

i have a cob cross trotter recently broken who finds some things very easy, already planning for a walk trot test, sometime next year, but he is very forward and willing in an able sort of way, and responds well to the balancing effect of rein and leg, almost half halt, but i would not be forcing anything on him or any cob

unlike the other horses who are part anglo arab and have possibly tougher bone structures

 

[eahotson]

i always understood driving horses are best schooled under saddle first

The ones I have seen are broken to ride first and schooling done in driven work but some people may do differently.Some want a true ride and drive and others are more focused on the driving.

 

[sbloom]

As a saddle fitter I would just comment that the less downhill your cob is, either through birth, or through corrective postural work, usually from the ground, the sounder it is likely to be. And the easier to fit a saddle to. We all have a responsibility to help our horses to carry us, the heavier we are, and the less suited they are to the work, the more commitment we have to make to our horses to make them fit and strong and straight, to do the work we ask of them in the best way possible.

 

[Orangehorse]

A lot of cobs are really vanners, the true hunting, heavyweight cob should ride almost the same as a horse.

 

[I'm Dun]

I went to a talk where one of the speakers was a vet, and she said in driving horses its hocks that tend to be an issue. Contrary to most peoples beliefs, they dont pull from the shoulder, they push from the hock and over time it takes its toll. My ex driving cob has knackered hocks so holds true for him, but who knows if it would have happened anyway. His conformation is very correct for a big lump and hes not downhill in the slightest.

 

[Expo]

Following with interest as I'm considering buying a nice cob who is a "ride and drive". He's been driven quite a lot more than ridden and, although fit and sound, feels a bit stiff under saddle which makes me think that the driving might not have done him any favours as a riding horse. He will only be ridden with me. Might be one avoid and move on.

 

[sbloom]

Following with interest as I'm considering buying a nice cob who is a "ride and drive". He's been driven quite a lot more than ridden and, although fit and sound, feels a bit stiff under saddle which makes me think that the driving might not have done him any favours as a riding horse. He will only be ridden with me. Might be one avoid and move on.

As a fitter I can usually tell which cobs were driven first, or most, as they usually haven't had a good flatwork education (which a good driving trainer would do) and are very on the forehand and don't understand how to lift at all. They often have some postural issues - post legged behind, rotated in pelvis. Nothing that's not usually fixable, but you need a good bodyworker, a programme of in hand re-education and a good ridden trainer. Not always the case, but often.

 

[Expo]

As a fitter I can usually tell which cobs were driven first, or most, as they usually haven't had a good flatwork education (which a good driving trainer would do) and are very on the forehand and don't understand how to lift at all. They often have some postural issues - post legged behind, rotated in pelvis. Nothing that's not usually fixable, but you need a good bodyworker, a programme of in hand re-education and a good ridden trainer. Not always the case, but often.

Thanks for this - I had no idea about the possible issues, but explains why he feels stiff and on the forehand. Shame, as he's lovely otherwise, but one to pass on I think.