Dry food for a whelping bitch....food afficiandos help needed!

[druid]

I need to source a dry food for a bitch due to be put in pup (to be fed for the last month of pregnancy and while lactating) which meets the following...

• No chicken (includes poultry fat, poultry gravy etc)
• No beef
• No wheat
• Less than 6% peas if they are an ingredient
• Available in Ireland (so Millie's Wolfheart, Eden etc are out) or via zooplus.ie
• Ideally want around 30% protein and 22% fat/oils.

Currently she is on Engage Salmon and Rice with some raw/wet. I won't switch her to an entirely raw diet (nor will she willingly eat wholly raw). I don't care about grain free or not (except the wheat). All my litters are normally raised on Royal Canin or Red Mills Engage (depending on breed).

All suggestions welcome! I've had a look at the allaboutdogfood site but when you look at their protein and fat levels they often don't match up with the packaging/manufacturers website so I got fed up and gave up to ask you lot!

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Fish4dogs, but check the pea content, I think they increased the percentage in the last few years. Do you have Pets at Home? Their Fishmonger brand has more fish.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

Check Ava french bulldog .. I throw bag away and have it in air tight containers but pretty sure it’s no wheat and I’d all fish no chicken

 

[SOS]

Is she allergic to those ingredients?

If so it’s worth considering that it is beginning to be believed that food allergies can be genetic or atleast the likelihood of a dog developing one, much like with people. Paored with the thought that the first few weeks of a puppies solid diet can impact their reactions to food in the future, if they are to be fed this same food as the bitch I would be wary.

If she’s not allergic ignore this

 

[SusieT]

If she's allergic why are you breeding her?

 

[druid]

Fish4dogs, but check the pea content, I think they increased the percentage in the last few years. Do you have Pets at Home? Their Fishmonger brand has more fish.

There's PAH North of the border - I'll check those, thanks!

 

[druid]

Is she allergic to those ingredients?

If so it’s worth considering that it is beginning to be believed that food allergies can be genetic or atleast the likelihood of a dog developing one, much like with people. Paored with the thought that the first few weeks of a puppies solid diet can impact their reactions to food in the future, if they are to be fed this same food as the bitch I would be wary.

If she’s not allergic ignore this

She's intolerant rather allergic - ends up a bit itchy and with a poor coat so I prefer to avoid them. The odd accidental Bonio or bit of chicken given accidentally doesn't have any noticeable effect. Pups will be raised on Royal Canin or Engage as per usual. I'm a vet with a special interest in repro/neonatal care so early diet influence etc is of interest I know or own several generations of the family so am happy it's an individual thing vs an issue in the lines.

 

[druid]

If she's allergic why are you breeding her?

She's intolerant rather an allergic. As above, I'm very familiar with the pedigree and lines ether owning or doign veterinary work for several including her siblings. I'm happy it's an individual issue rather than an issue that crops up in the lines. She's being bred as she's an absolutely fantastic competition dog with multiple field trial awards at Open level, multiple show ring wins (including Crufts placings) and excellent temprament and conformation. Getting a bit itchy when fed those three ingredients long term aside, she's a dog of a lifetime for most trialling folk and I'd like to preserve the line as her mother will not have another litter.

 

[Glitter's fun]

They always used to say that a lactating bitch needs the exact same nutrients as a newly weaned puppy. Is there a puppy version of what she is used to eating?

 

[maisie06]

I need to source a dry food for a bitch due to be put in pup (to be fed for the last month of pregnancy and while lactating) which meets the following...

• No chicken (includes poultry fat, poultry gravy etc)
• No beef
• No wheat
• Less than 6% peas if they are an ingredient
• Available in Ireland (so Millie's Wolfheart, Eden etc are out) or via zooplus.ie
• Ideally want around 30% protein and 22% fat/oils.

Currently she is on Engage Salmon and Rice with some raw/wet. I won't switch her to an entirely raw diet (nor will she willingly eat wholly raw). I don't care about grain free or not (except the wheat). All my litters are normally raised on Royal Canin or Red Mills Engage (depending on breed).

All suggestions welcome! I've had a look at the allaboutdogfood site but when you look at their protein and fat levels they often don't match up with the packaging/manufacturers website so I got fed up and gave up to ask you lot!

Arden grange sensitive puppy would be worth a look

 

[Glitter's fun]

How about James Wellbeloved puppy fish and rice, with some capsules for added oil?

Puppy Fish & Rice Dry Dog Food (wellbeloved.com)

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Can I ask why you use Royal Canin? It comes up as very poor quality on all about dogfood. I’ve never understood why it’s so widely used, I see lots of adverts saying ‘puppies will be weaned on RC’.

 

[twiggy2]

Can I ask why you use Royal Canin? It comes up as very poor quality on all about dogfood. I’ve never understood why it’s so widely used, I see lots of adverts saying ‘puppies will be weaned on RC’.

Its rubbish food, I hated the fact it was what we were supposed to promote at the vets where I worked as did most of the vets

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Can’t edit, so a new post! Not sure Fish4dogs will suit your girl, the pea content looks high. https://www.fish4dogs.com/finest-salmon-with-potato-adult-dog

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Its rubbish food, I hated the fact it was what we were supposed to promote at the vets where I worked as did most of the vets

The amount of filler is very high, wheat is mentioned twice on the ingredient list, so is maize on the +7 variety. The amount of meat is poor, imo. My vet hasn’t mentioned food to me, but there are bags of Hills science nutrition and RC hanging about. I can’t understand why they promote it.

I tried a variety of kibble with my youngsters and had endless diarrhoea until I went back to raw.

 

[twiggy2]

The amount of filler is very high, wheat is mentioned twice on the ingredient list, so is maize on the +7 variety. The amount of meat is poor, imo. My vet hasn’t mentioned food to me, but there are bags of Hills science nutrition and RC hanging about. I can’t understand why they promote it.

I tried a variety of kibble with my youngsters and had endless diarrhoea until I went back to raw.

there are financial incentives or there were for every bag or tin sold an amount of money would go into a kitty to be divvied out at the practice, i used to donate mine to charity as I couldnt opt out of having it

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

there are financial incentives or there were for every bag or tin sold an amount of money would go into a kitty to be divvied out at the practice, i used to donate mine to charity as I couldnt opt out of having it

What?! That’s outrageous! Surely the staff could Google like me and see that it’s not great on protein etc? Lots of the equipment seems to be from the same manufacturer, there is loads of merchandise covered in the name.

 

[twiggy2]

What?! That’s outrageous! Surely the staff could Google like me and see that it’s not great on protein etc? Lots of the equipment seems to be from the same manufacturer, there is loads of merchandise covered in the name.

all the nutrition training we got from work was delivered by RC, most reception staff dont have any special interest other than liking animals

 

[druid]

They always used to say that a lactating bitch needs the exact same nutrients as a newly weaned puppy. Is there a puppy version of what she is used to eating?

Yep, and it's what I use for the spaniels normally but unfortunately not right for her!

 

[druid]

Can I ask why you use Royal Canin? It comes up as very poor quality on all about dogfood. I’ve never understood why it’s so widely used, I see lots of adverts saying ‘puppies will be weaned on RC’.

I tend to stick with a food that has been throught feeding trials for weaning puppies initally. Which leaves you only the "big four" of Purina, RC, Hill's and Iams. Of those, I've found the RC Starter option to work best for Manchesters. Once pups are allocated I will wean on to whatever the owners are going to feed that particular pup if at all possible (especially the ones who stay until 16 weeks for passport/rabies reasons), this time they went on to Red Mills Go Native Puppy food. Red Mills Engage I use as they are an Irish company, I've been to the factory and they are huge supporters of Gundog competitions. Plus the food suits the dogs.

I feed all sorts from Royal Canin to Raw and everything in between, I'm not a die hard believer in any of them and prefer to feed what suits the dog.

 

[druid]

Its rubbish food, I hated the fact it was what we were supposed to promote at the vets where I worked as did most of the vets

Zero promotion at my clinic, I don't stock any food from any brand (well that's lies - I have exactly one 4kg bag of anallergenic for when I see very bad derm cases who want a new food right now. Otherwise I direct to investigate novel proteins such as insect or kangaroo for their diet trial)

 

[druid]

Can’t edit, so a new post! Not sure Fish4dogs will suit your girl, the pea content looks high. https://www.fish4dogs.com/finest-salmon-with-potato-adult-dog

Ah thanks, I just want to avoid a food where the protein level is somewhat artifically bumped by lots of pea protein vs coming from animal sources. Thanks for checking for me!

 

[druid]

there are financial incentives or there were for every bag or tin sold an amount of money would go into a kitty to be divvied out at the practice, i used to donate mine to charity as I couldnt opt out of having it

We get no incentives for selling RC or Hill's except the oppertunity to order cost price food for our own pets.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Ah thanks, I just want to avoid a food where the protein level is somewhat artifically bumped by lots of pea protein vs coming from animal sources. Thanks for checking for me!

The Pets at Home version, Fishmonger, has lots more fish in it than Fish4dogs and no peas. They use potato as their filler, maybe so they can bill it as ‘sensitive’. Still gave my lot the runs.

 

[SusieT]

She's intolerant rather an allergic. As above, I'm very familiar with the pedigree and lines ether owning or doign veterinary work for several including her siblings. I'm happy it's an individual issue rather than an issue that crops up in the lines. She's being bred as she's an absolutely fantastic competition dog with multiple field trial awards at Open level, multiple show ring wins (including Crufts placings) and excellent temprament and conformation. Getting a bit itchy when fed those three ingredients long term aside, she's a dog of a lifetime for most trialling folk and I'd like to preserve the line as her mother will not have another litter.

I wonder if you reconsidered can you see how you are ignoring the medical fault in the dog to breed her despite there being many many dogs out there. She has a faulty gene- so you are propagating it. Sorry- it doesn't look great from the outside looking in.
When breeders stop minimalizing dogs health issues because they 'are the dog of a lifetime' (if she has relatives who are fine - breed them..) we have a better chance of breeding out these issues.

 

[SusieT]

What?! That’s outrageous! Surely the staff could Google like me and see that it’s not great on protein etc? Lots of the equipment seems to be from the same manufacturer, there is loads of merchandise covered in the name.

I would consider whether google is the best place to get this information - although I acknowledge its very tricky to get good independant nutritional advice anywhere.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

I would consider whether google is the best place to get this information - although I acknowledge its very tricky to get good independant nutritional advice anywhere.

Google as in it leads to the relevant manufacturer’s website/a review website eg allaboutdogfood for the nutritional information. Most of the time, your posts appear deliberately obtuse.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I'd buy a dog off Druid if if were my breed and a lot of other people would/have done too.

 

[druid]

I wonder if you reconsidered can you see how you are ignoring the medical fault in the dog to breed her despite there being many many dogs out there. She has a faulty gene- so you are propagating it. Sorry- it doesn't look great from the outside looking in.
When breeders stop minimalizing dogs health issues because they 'are the dog of a lifetime' (if she has relatives who are fine - breed them..) we have a better chance of breeding out these issues.

That's your opinion which you are entitled to, my knowledge of the pedigree/family history, the individual and her medical history alongside my knowledge from Genetics and Veterinary degrees make me confident in my decision to breed her. Thank you for your concern.

 

[druid]

I'd buy a dog off Druid if if were my breed and a lot of other people would/have done too.

Thank you. The bitch has a wait list of 8 solid homes including 3 repeat buyers (from me, not from this bitch as she hasn't had a litter previously).