dummy questions

[htobago]

How long does it normally take for a young stallion to start mounting a dummy mare without the aid of an in-season jump-mare?

I very recently bought a dummy-mare for my boy, and at the last collection the stud tell me that they only used a mare who wasn't in season for 'encouragement'. He still jumped on the dummy and did his bit, bless him.

This was after about 2 weeks using the dummy with in-season jump-mares. Can we be fairly confident that he'll do this every time without an in-season mare now?

I ask because my nerves are in shreds from the constant worry that the stud might not have a jump-mare in season when breeders are clamouring for chilled semen!

 

[brackenhappy]

i keep postin you!!

...................you can have bracken!!!!!!

she can be your tease mare!!

as long as she gets the odd 'go'!!

......dont know anythin about dummy-mares sorry!!...but bracken aint the smartest!! does this count as a dummy mare!?!?!?!

.................bracken is bay in sig!!!

 

[mat]

Once we have trained our stallions, and they do it without a mare a few times they seem to be ok, we only have problems when we try to use a new dummy!

 

[Partoow]

My stallion took a while to get the idea and now any dummy will do!, actually any plasic horse seems to be the focus of his ardour!! This includes the one at the Unicorn that they use to show harnessing and when at sandown the statue of a rachorse got him going!!!
Seriously i find that it seems to be the temperature of the AV that is really important, surprisingly warm is one discovery.

 

[gale]

We've found the tightness and warmth to be of vital importance with all of our boys each seem to have their own preference but we also have an available trolley tart to assist

 

[Fahrenheit]

[ QUOTE ]
we only have problems when we try to use a new dummy!

[/ QUOTE ]

I fear that you maybe referring to the 2 hours it took my 'experienced' stallion, to get on your dummy mare after I told you yep he gets on first time everytime at the other place

HT - It depends on each individual stallion, R came already dummy trained no mare needed at all he has it out as soon as her entered the covering room, H took straight to the dummy the first day (even if he did act a pillock for 2 hours when we tried to get him over a new one) and he has also 'almost' got the art of being collected off standing, something we don't have to try at bbmats because he doesn't fall of their dummy like he does at Twem, he does usually need a mare about but they aren't always in season. O never took to the dummy, we gave up trying to convince him to get up on it, he would only get on the real thing, which meant you always had to have an inseason mare that would stand and you had to be quick otherwise they'd end up being covered if you didn't get the AV on quick enough, B has also got the idea in one season, still needs an in season mare though at the mo, and I think T has taken quite a few sessions and even with an in season mare the word viagra is often mentioned

lol.

 

[mat]

LOL! How did you guess!! I think he just wanted to get his money's worth out of mable the table (our dummy)

 

[Anastasia]

Talking of AI, which AV seems to be the preferred choice for people?

 

[sallyf]

Mine are both happy with a missouri(sp) used to have a differant one name escapes me but find this one that we use now much easier and lighter to handle.

 

[mat]

We dont lie the Missouri, we use the Inra AV its sturdy and light and all the horses like it.

The Colorado is nice, same principle as the Inra but it is a bit heavy!

 

[sallyf]

Yes thats it colorado vets borrowed it and broke it so bought it off us and we replaced it with the ones we have now.
Colorado definately heavy but tbh i found the inra one heavy when i used that one as well.
Its alright for you big strong men but im only 5ft 7 and often have to deal with the AV and stallion on my own.
Fortunately they are both fantastically behaved.

 

[eventing_chick]

Your lucky, mine won't do the plastic horse

he has to use the 'living' dummys.....

 

[htobago]

[ QUOTE ]
i keep postin you!!

...................you can have bracken!!!!!!

she can be your tease mare!!

as long as she gets the odd 'go'!!

......dont know anythin about dummy-mares sorry!!...but bracken aint the smartest!! does this count as a dummy mare!?!?!?!

.................bracken is bay in sig!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Eeek! A stalker!

Why are you so keen to offload this poor mare? What's she done? She looks rather sweet in your pics!

Anyway didn't I read on another thread that she's in foal? Or about to be put in foal?

I really can't take on another horse atm - however nice she might be! Sorry!

I am crossing my fingers hoping that Tobago will now mount his dummy-mare (she's called Trinidad, by the way - Trinny for short) without needing an in-season jump mare.

I suppose if he's done it once he should do it again? I should know soon as I think they're collecting off him every day this week...

He's only 3 by the way, and this is his first stud season.

 

[brackenhappy]

i always wanted to be a stalker!!!!!!

.......yep shes at stud now!!

i'm waitin for her 17 day scan on the 12th!! second go!

......got to keep my girls options open!! she is such a slapper!!

thats the only reason i would offload her!!, her one ambition in life is to be part of a harem!!

........i think if you can get him to do it once he should (but i may be wrong!!!) do it again!! are you gonna get another one and call it susannah?!?!?

................got my idea of a job as tease mare for bracken from a book she would love it!!!!

 

[maestro]

Ours wiil not look at a dummy either. We collect from the floor at the moment. However we are not sure how long my daughters shoulders will last out.

 

[Fahrenheit]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL! How did you guess!! I think he just wanted to get his money's worth out of mable the table (our dummy)

[/ QUOTE ]

and then there was the testing out every single AV you own

 

[Fahrenheit]

[ QUOTE ]
We use the Inra AV its sturdy and light and all the horses like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except contrary Belgium Stallions....

 

[htobago]

Golly I'm not sure what make of AV the stud are using - I'll find out - it seems to be a good one, though.

Brackenhappy - get another dummy? You must be joking! Trinny cost me a bloody fortune! Could have bought a perfectly nice real mare for that money! Still, if he continues to mount Trinny without the aid of a jump-mare, she will be worth every penny.

Golly, though, I do wish more breeders were willing to use frozen semen - it would save us so much stress and anxiety...

 

[brackenhappy]

Brackenhappy - get another dummy? You must be joking! Trinny cost me a bloody fortune! Could have bought a perfectly nice real mare for that money! Still, if he continues to mount Trinny without the aid of a jump-mare, she will be worth every penny.

didnt realise that they where that expensive!! dont think i will start my own stud now!!!!

 

[htobago]

Update - he's now used the dummy twice without a jump-mare....looking promising

but I don't want to get too optimistic, and the stud manager is still trying to make sure she has mares in season when collections are needed from him.

It would help if some breeders and vets didn't wait until the last possible minute to ring saying 'we need semen tomorrow' without having given her any notice at all!!! Grrrr!

 

[Fahrenheit]

[ QUOTE ]
It would help if some breeders and vets didn't wait until the last possible minute to ring saying 'we need semen tomorrow' without having given her any notice at all!!! Grrrr!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my bone of contention as well! When I accept a mare to one of my stallions I make it clear that it doesn't matter how many times you ring, I don't care but if you let me know when you are injecting them into season or when they are being scanned I have some idea that they maybe needing semen at some point soon, therefore can arrange my stallions schedule accordingly to make sure he isn't being overused or if there are a few together can try and stretch my mares season so they need semen after the outside mare or get one great collection that is split rather than overuse the stallion because at the end of the day the stallion isn't a machine! Is it so hard for people to ring up and say oh we are scanning the mare tomorrow! Ggrrrr I think not! Whenever i've got semen from outside, I have called the stud and told them what we are doing and when so they have an idea of whats going on!

 

[maestro]

Too true, especially at the end of the season when the stallion is getting bored of the idea and you have to be so careful not to put them off. We have had phone calls at 10pm before now to come and pick some up the next day like goods off a supermarket shelf!

 

[Fahrenheit]

Its a nightmare isn't it, you want to give the customer the best semen possible and they expect the best semen and they expect it to get there on time , which is fair enough, but you would think they would spare a couple of minutes to keep you updated so that you can give them the best semen possible.
My most recent one was on the day we had all the rain and floods, they rang me at 10.30am to be there at 9am the next day, with no forwarning, the lastest we can have him at twemlows to guarantee this is 2pm, we live 2 and a half hours away from twemlows! I bent over backwards that day to get him up there and get it shipped out, I didn't have to because they had missed my night before shipment deadline (and didn't apologise for this). I seriously am thinking about knocking the chilled semen on the head because I can't do my best for people if they don't give me the chance to do my best for them, luckily we are almost fully over to shipping out from bbmats which is just round the corner but still, vets should still keep you informed because there is no point them ringing you at the last minute for semen, when you may have already collected from that stallion that day. There are unavoidable circumstances where semen is needed last minute, like when you scan a mare for pregnancy and she isn't in foal and she already has a 38 follicle (ive had that) but its nearly every customer that rings up at the last minute for the semen, when they having been tracking the mares cycle for a few day, if they could just ring and say we may need are semen in the next few days you can be on the ready and you can make sure you don't collect from your stallion each day until you are past the point when you are sure they aren't going to ring up and say they need the semen.
It my bug bear that people just assume a stallion can produce its best semen at a drop of a hat for them, they have no consideration, I know that my old stallion does his best collections when he is collected from every second day (at the start of the season the first week he wil give you enough for 30 mares each time, then he settles into giving enough for 10 mares each time but if I overdo the collects he drops - whichs is understandable he's not a semen producing machine he's a horse!), so I try and work round that, and if I know a mare is coming up, I can adjust what I am doing with my mares at home to accomodate the fact he has a chilled collection coming up and that he will give the best semen if I don't collect the day before.
I think I have started to rant now.......................... sorry!

And theres the problem of teasing mares and jump mares when they call at the last minute...............no i'm not going to rant anymore

 

[Damien]

It would help if some breeders and vets didn't wait until the last possible minute to ring

That is part of the stallion owners responsibilty of standing a stallion at public stud.

When a mare owner pays a stud fee for a service and is incurring the costs of the AI centre/Vet etc then the semen needs to made availible on demand.

If a stallion is inexperienced, unable to collect upon demand or the quality is not sufficeint to be splitting the semen into doses, then the stallion owner should perhaps not be so hasty to take the mare owners money. There are too many stallions standing at stud owned by inexperienced owners who think they have the right be the one that calls the shots, forgeting that they are offering a service and charging for it!

 

[Fahrenheit]

Yes Opie, its is part of the stallion owners responsibility of standing a stallion at public stud, but what we are talking about is the consumer sparing a couple of minutes to keep the stallion owner informed so they can make sure the consumer gets the best possible 'product' for their mare. When I take mare, I always have a conversation with the mare owner before accepting the stud fee that it is very important that they keep me informed so then I can make sure they get the best semen (though as of yet they never do!), if they aren't happy that you are asking to be kept informed I am quite happy not to take the stud fee, at the end of the day its the stallions reputation thats on the line and I want his best semen going out every time, when they leave it to the very last possible minute, even though they have been tracking the mares cycle for a few days and you are blissfully unaware because they haven't told you the stallion may have already done a collection that day (which could have been split) and another collection just may not be viable for them as they left it to the last minute. Now if they spare a couple of minutes to ring and say we think we are going to need semen in the next few days sometime, you can work round that knowledge! The vet I use is fantastic, because he ships semen himself he knows what its like to try and keep everyone happy, so he is very informative to the stallion owners that are going to be shipping semen to him, its manners at the end of the day.

 

[Damien]

HG absolutely,

your the type of stallion owner I would feel great at working with

comminication is always the key to success!

 

[Fahrenheit]

Thank you Opie

, I do try my best! I bend over backwards to make sure everyone is happy (even when they don't tell me the mare may need semen shortly

)! I was even arranging my stallions collection schedule from my hospital bed a month ago and my poor father who is nearly 70 and not that horsy was getting him loaded and to the AI Centre ontime!

 

[maestro]

HorseGroupe says it very well, in order for us to be proffesional we need to keep to a routine to keep our Stallions happy. Our stallion is very good but overuse make him sore so we plan as much as we can to keep the semen up to standard. If the mistake is ours we have delivered in person if necessary.

 

[Damien]

HG I think thats what makes using UK Stallions so great, the dedication and commitment of stallion owners is so personal. Many mare owners are so unsure of the procedures and are quite nervous about the whole scenario, not being in control and not knowing/understanding whats happening can be quite nerve wracking. There is nothing nicer than having an experienced and understanding stallion owner at the end of the line to talk you through things and being invited to call at anytime to answer questions.

maestro In reality I don't think many stallions in the UK are being overly used are they? I understand some stallions are breeding over 100 mares a year but the average stallion owner is not serving afractions of that. On the continent + 300 is the norm. One single collection can confidently be used to serve three mares, providng that he satisfies the billions of motile sperm in his collections. Doses can also safely be kept in the fridge for that emergency call and stored for own mares if numerous mares are requiring semen at the same time.

 

[htobago]

Opie we do the same as HG with communication - in fact I now ring breeders myself well in advance and remind them that their mare might be coming in season soon and could they please give the stud a bit of notice!

And I take the responsibility very seriously indeed. My boy's terms are Live Foal Guarantee - with no deposit or booking fee - nothing at all to pay until the breeder has a live, healthy foal on the ground in 2008.

Fortunately he is highly fertile - everything so far in foal at the first attempt, whether with fresh, chilled or frozen, including difficult mares who hadn't taken with other stallions.

On the one or two very rare occasions when something has gone wrong (we once had a faulty batch of extender and a broken microscope on the same day, would you believe!) I have felt so bad I've cancelled the stud fee altogether and given a free breeding. Even the breeders have told me this is way too generous.

Yes, I am a novice owner, but the stud is very experienced - and tbh as a novice I am so desperate to get things right and please the breeders that it's become a full-time job keeping in constant touch with them all, holding their hands through family problems and illnesses (another cancelled stud fee in one case, just cos I felt sorry for the poor girl), finding buyers/loaners for their horses, etc., etc.

I'm not complaining - and I've made some lovely new friends - but please don't think badly of all us novices!