Early signs of laminitis need feeding advice

J

Jerokee

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My pony was shod today and the farrier identified tell tale signs of early stage laminitis.

A bit of background;

My pony is a 5 year old kwpn x qh. He's not had the best
start in life and was rescued last year in a terrible state. Malnourished, terrible mud fever all the way up his legs, which were also infected :-(

Spent last winter trying to get his weight up, after a good worm and a visit from the dentist of course. Vet got antibiotics fir his legs. But he didn't seem to be able to make use of the goodness in his diet, he became very loose, obviously not strong enough to digest it all properly. But he did gain a little weight.

We started to break him in, got him gelded.

April this year he gained enough to start proper ridden work and I did a few sponsored rides and a young girl in the village started his jumping education and started hacking him on his own :-) he was fed topspec and Alfa a... Probably 3/4 round bowl scoop over two feeds. With 2 sections of hay at night... Grass was good.

Now the weather has turned, I upped his feed, gradually, to 1 scoop Alfa a at night and 1/2 in morning with topspec and 1/2 scoop pony nuts in each feed. Grass is now poor. 3 sections of hay now at night.

He is now holding his weight, by no means overweight. He's worked 2/3 times a week, I have a 6 week old baby!!!

Any suggestions as obviously I'm not wanting this to go any further and whilst I'm not ignorant to laminitis, ive never had anything which has needed me to manage it...

Cheers guys
 
This may not be the usual feed related laminitis that we all think of but more a reaction to his poor start in life and the stresses his system was under. I would get the vet to run some tests to make sure there is no underlying problem.

However still treat him as if he is a laminitic, cut out his feed to reduce his starch and sugar intake, put him on a molasses free chop or Fast Fibre, soak his hay, I soak for 12 hours, and cut down or stop his turnout time, or reduce his grazing area.

It is worth making every effort as if you can get it under control now you may avoid a really bad bout.
 
He was poorly a few weeks ago, symptoms were; standing like a laminitic, temp of 50 and muscles tight like a horse tying up. Vet came, shot of painkiller and antibiotics took bloods And normal save for v slightly high White cell count, marked improvement 24hrs and a week of bute and antibiotics back to normal and am work g him as normal. Vet re run bloods after course of meds and all normal and he couldn't pinpoint anything :-/
 
Allen and Page Fast Fibre is a high fibre, low starch, low sugar feed and should firm the poos up too. However it seems to be an aquired taste. My mare has decided that she won't eat it, although I know others which wolf it down!
However Rowan and Barbary have just brought out a new feed called Solutions Mash which is also low starch and even lower in sugar than Fast Fibre and contains magox and yeasacc, so should be good for laminitics - not tried it yet though - it will be next on my list!
 
What the farrier saw was probably the effects of the earlier incident, I would still follow the diet as if he is in danger of developing it.
Something is probably amiss but it may be very difficult to find out what it is.
 
My boy lost a lot of weight after coming from spain and having really bad teeth.

to get his weight back up (we are about 20 to 10kg short from perfect now) we have had him on Allen and page Fast Fibre and Allen and Page calm and condition.

What i would suggest is get an Allen and Page nutrisitionist out. Its free and they will help you weigh him and work out a good diet to help put it on him. they come back out to check and you can contact them with question you will also get a free 20kg bag of food!

If you go to their website you will find out who does your area. Simone does mine and shes lovely!

Good luck

Oh they have a range thats barley and molasses free. Sugars pretty un digestable for my horse and its great. he can take the natural stuff but extra in feed he finds hard to digest. the feed looks like slop but He loved it adn has gained the weight thankfully.
 
When I got one if my boys the farrier also noticed dome signs of early laminits. I got in touch with the lami clinic, they recommended speedibeet, hifi lite and formula for feet sup. Also to soak his hay. Can't remember the exact quantities as was a couple of years ago now! They told me to not starve him (a dated method which does more harm than good!). On this diet, he picked up very quickly before it turned into a full blown attack.
 
I agree with having a nutritionist to have a look at him. From your description it sounded like he was getting far more 'hard' food than I give my once-only (so far) laminitic mare. But I take the point that he was in poor condition and you're trying to build him up before winter.

I would however tell your vet that you are having a nutritionist - if you do. The two professionals need to work together, otherwise their advice may clash.
 
I know iv posted already a feed plan devised by lami clinic but regarding juliettes post about simple systems, I can't rate them enough!!
 
No grass get the horse off it. Stable initially and hay can soak(double hay net or small holes). Can have hi fi lite low heat sugar etc(light blue bag) and speedi beet but omit pony nuts. Simple. Dont starve. If you nip in bud you should hopefully have caught it.

Mine wouldnt be stabled and we had to fence off a really small small area with electric fencing. Mine is having poor grazing(old grass from last year but its still growing with mild weather and sun).

If you catch it and sounds like you have should ride if all seems to have settled etc in couple days. But just feed bulk with little in it.But I do agree if horse had a poor start may be underlying problem. I have been told this before with mine by the farrier. ie to watch the grass etc, in fact my old farrier told me to ride my horse when he found a sign?? But obviously not when they have laminitis full blown!!

Fingers crossed you are ok and watch the frost when we get it (I would rather give hay to a laminitic and very reduced grazing to a potential one). Good luck
 
Yes my farrier said more work and mentioned having gone from barely bread and water to fillet steak!!!! So I'm going to try and ride or lunge everyday, at least every other. Fortunately we have an elderly pony at the yard who has suffered with laminitis for years so my pony will now go with him :-)
 
I suggest you treat him as if he has acute laminitis. Gut upset is very common from hind gut upset from diet not suiting that individual horse. For diet I'd go as simple as you can and then introduce any minerals etc. he may need. I wouldn't use any compound feeds at all. Have a look here for a diet suggestion to get him stabilized. http://www.ecirhorse.com/index.php/laminitis

Good luck.
 
But how do you get them to eat these damn minerals. My pony won't touch them. I read that Cinnamon is good for them, but he won't have any of that either ! I bought Magnesium and he refuses to touch feed with that in it too !
 
I would swap to hi-fi MOLLASSES FREE rather than lite as Lite still has a certain amount of mollasses in it. Personally I don't like balancers as they are too rich however I have heard of people having good results from Topspec Antilam.

If you chose to cut out the balancer, just feed a broad spec powder supplement. Then on top of that you could feed a range of supplements to support a healthy hoof. These include Biotin, Magnesium and brewers yeast. The later two really help with the metabolism of sugars. Look up some of the posts on Barefooters on here. you will get some very usefull advice which will apply to your boy even though he is shod. particularly the dietary info.

Best of luck.
 
Have a good look at your hay. I had some hay that was still very green, and short, kind of breaks up easily when you split the slices, anyway marleys feet got hot on this :eek:. I had just bought 30 bales :mad:and had to get rid of it, found some older and cheaper stuff in the end. Then I soaked this and never had a problem since.
Basically I think if the hay is long, stalky and brownish it should be ok and easy to soak, however short, fresh and green hay has the embodied sugar content of lush spring grass no matter how old it is really because there is nothing to make the sugars leach out.
 
Would second opinion re. swapping to Dengie Hi Fi Lite Mollasses Free; and ditto re. grazing. My old boy developed laminitis in the autumn NOT the spring; my vet said that its very common for horses to present with lammi in the autumn months as often you'll get more wet weather which makes the grass grow.

Re. turning out on grass. Avoid putting the horse out if there's frost PLUS it also happens to be a sunny/bright morning. Apparently the action of the frost plus the sunshine will (sorry, not quite sure of the science but no doubt someone on here will be able to explain better) make the fructans rise in the grass and these can be very bad for horses with lammi. So if you are going to turn out you need to avoid frosty/sunny mornings, or you could use a grazing muzzle. I didn't realise how harmful it could be until my farrier told me about this.
 
Hi I'm new here but have ALOT of experience controlling the onset and signs of lami. My daughters sec A is PPID and as such prone to lami. I tried all sorts of feeds but this year have found the best to keep control of his weight and NO LAMI ALL YEAR (he lives out on pasture all year too with my big horse) are the dengie lami trust approved feeds. Our pony has 2pints alfa a lite + 2 pints healthy hooves morning and evening also at peek times (spring and autumn) I pop a little bit if magnesium in each feed obviously depending on the weather I increase or decrease the amount he gets so he keeps at a good weight. You need to keep the sugar & starch to under 10% and if possible get your hay tested. As in an earlier post the ecirhorse group on yahoo is fantastic although I have always stuck to the low s&s diet I have never fed all the supplements as I really don't think it's necessary but that's personal choice. We give absolutely NO treats not ever and we work the pony as much as poss (my daughter is only 4 and the pony is only 10.2 so I can't ride him!!) keep the diet tight and you should be ok, good luck. :)
 
i am in the 4th month of recovery for full blown laminitis rotation and founder

when ( praying) my mare gets through this i will give her FIBERGY which is nicer has the same surger spect is safe for laminitis and spells allot better. i prefer it to hifi

when you look at the ingredients of hi lite and hifi there isnt allot of diference

my mare has full blown laminitis we now down to a slower pulse still box rest and hobbly


she is on just speedibeet formula4feet laminator and founderguard flexijoint and 2 sections night soaked then rinsed , she is 16hh


please see this website for more laminitis help I found it a few weeks ago it gathers all help experiences and products H&H members have tried and tested etc and all put on one sight to save you searching through endless threads I think its a gr8 idea which is why i put link in my sig

http://equinecare-and-control.weebly.com/l.html

http://www.founderguard.uk.com/
 
Leviathan I feel your pain. 2 years ago we thought we were going to lose our little man, he was on an 18" deep shavings bed and most days barely got up and when he did he was crippled, he would just lay in his stable sweating and looking so sad and in pain even on bute! With time, patience and research we have got him round and he is now a different pony, full of life and energy and regularly charging round the field with my crazy horse. I have just had a look at the fibrgy and my only concern with it would be the amount of oil it contains as oil is metabolised in to sugar/starch (can't remember which) but a high oil feed sent our little man over the edge and I would hate for that to happen to someone else. It's the main reason I stick to lami trust approved feeds now with very low oil content. Good luck, stay positive. :)
 
BigRed said:
But how do you get them to eat these damn minerals. My pony won't touch them. I read that Cinnamon is good for them, but he won't have any of that either ! I bought Magnesium and he refuses to touch feed with that in it too !
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I make up my pony's feed really sloppy - more water than food, he just slurps it up. I'm lucky he does love his grub but even so he wouldn't touch it dry. The cinnamon powder is easier to get into them than magnesium because it does at least smell and taste nice once it's wet.
 
Just to add I've had really good results with cinnamon powder with my pony - he's always been border line lami and footy but he's been much happier and sound since starting on this
 
skn0404 said:
Leviathan I feel your pain. 2 years ago we thought we were going to lose our little man, he was on an 18" deep shavings bed and most days barely got up and when he did he was crippled, he would just lay in his stable sweating and looking so sad and in pain even on bute! With time, patience and research we have got him round and he is now a different pony, full of life and energy and regularly charging round the field with my crazy horse. I have just had a look at the fibrgy and my only concern with it would be the amount of oil it contains as oil is metabolised in to sugar/starch (can't remember which) but a high oil feed sent our little man over the edge and I would hate for that to happen to someone else. It's the main reason I stick to lami trust approved feeds now with very low oil content. Good luck, stay positive. :)
Click to expand...


I would ask your vet about founderguard ( read their website its really informative for laminitics and cushings it is a preventative for laminitis as it it neutralize starches, my mare has improved since she been on it
she has always used fibergy and with the founderguard she will be ok.
I like to hear success stories
 
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