early stages of suspected lami.... wat to do??

jackofhearts

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Hi everyone, this is the first time i've posted on here so im not sure if im posting in the right place but im desperatly after advice from people who have delt wiv lami before. i've got a 14hh cob, i rescued him as 3 year old, and now 3 years on he is my absolute world. he was overweight when i got him. he was 480kg and gradually over the 3 years ive now got his weight down to 370kg and u still cant feel his ribs !! lol. he lives on thin air, he lives out 24/7 with access to his stable and his field is surrounded by trees, in the summer he is on half an acre of grass and in the evening would have 1 cup of hifi lite (roughly half a small scoop) just so he could have his multi vitamin and garlic. and then in the winter (from about mid november) he would still have his 1 cup of hifi lite wiv his multi vit in, and then usually b strip grazed, given literally a 3ft square of grass, in the morning and the same again at night. but only if weather was mild enough and grass hadnt/wasnt frozen, but if there had been a frost then he would have a section of hay (2kg) in the morning, and again at night if grass still hadnt thawed. He has happily lived on this routine for the 3 years i have had him, and his weight has nice and gradually come down over the 3 years, so the plan was to carry on doing the same this year. mid november i started to strip graze him, and carry on as normal, but last friday he had his feet trimmed and as the farrier trimmed back his feet it revealed a light pink line running along the white line of each foot, front and backs. farrier imeediatly said it could b the start of lami so keep an eye, but he wasnt overly concerned because it wasnt on the sole of his foot it was in the white line. hes completely sound, not sore at all, his character hasnt changed, and he still trots down the field to me when he see's me arrive, just like he always has. So my farrier said its not somthing i need to panic about but just be aware. but ever since ive been pulling my hair out thinking what to do.
On friday, as soon as the farrier left, i moved his fence line back to half an acre (where it usually is in summer months) and he has been on nothing other then soaked hay (soaked for atleast 12 hours and thoroughly rinsed) twice a day. i have been giving him 1 section (2kg dry weight) in the morning and the same in the evening. and im still giving him his 1 cup of hifi lite with his multi vitamin in it. i havnt put him on box rest because he isnt showing any signs of being sore, even since having his feet trimmed, so he still has access to a very sparce half of an acre. and is having 1 section soaked hay in the morning and 1 section soaked hay in the evening with his dinner of 1 cup (1/2 small scoop) of hifi lite with his milti vitamin in. no carrots/apples/polo's etc. just the soaked hay and his small dinner.

for those of you that have had experiance with lami, does this sound right? am i doing the right thing? is he getting enough)
i have no idea how much soaked hay to b giving him. plus weather he should have access to the grass even though its very sparse?

Like i say, hes not got full blown lami. the farrier wasnt concerned in the slightest, and has booked him as usual for 10 weeks time. and fingers crossed it will have completely gone by then. i rang my vet for advice but they sed as he is sound no action needs to b taken. and then i asked how much hay to giv him, will 1 section in the morning and 1 at night b enough? they just sed "yeah that should b fine".

but i still cant relax, its on my mind 24/7. i worry if hes not getting enough he will drop weight an if he gets too much his suspected lami will turn into full blown lami.

hes my first horse and my absolute world, i feel so guilty that if it is lami, ive failed as a "mum", i felt like i was doing everything in my power to prevent it happening, and hes the lightest hes ever been since ive had him, yet its now that he gets it.......well is suspected to b in the very early stages of it.

what do i dooooo??? help me guys, or i will b bald soon !! lol
 

Luci07

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As its winter and your boy has come down with laminitis my first thought is get him tested now for cushings which is more likely to have brought on winter laminitis. If it is cushings it is NOT the end of the world - can be pretty much (and quickly) brought under control but check on here re medication and alternatives as the drugs are expensive and there are alternatives. The cushings test is a simple blood test so I would do this immediately.
 

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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Sorry can't remember what hard feed you said yours was having but Dengie Hi Fi Mollassess free is good (or anything with the Laminitis Trust logo on it).

You could also contact the Laminitis Trust for advice; sorry don't know their website but probably findable on Google.

Personally if you're worried, I think you should be able to ask your vet to come out to take a look, even if only to set your mind at rest. But in fact I'd sooner trust my farrier if its anything to do with feet, and its good that he has pointed out to you that there may be a risk, however slight. That's the value of a good farrier!

Something you should avoid is to turnout on a bright sunny morning when there's still frost in the grass; this is notoriously bad for laminitics as the combination of bright sun and frost will draw the fructans up into the grass (sorry can't explain the science any better, no doubt someone on here will!). But anyway its best avoided.

Something else which occurs to me is do you know how to take a digital pulse? A fast, bounding digital pulse is a strong indicator of something wrong, as is heat in the foot - so if you don't know how to feel for this its best to get someone like a vet to show you. I always feel for heat in the foot as a matter of course now, having had a laminitic in the past.

Had your horse been older I would have suggested getting the vet to take some bloods as it could be Cushings (now known as Equine Metabolic Syndrome). However, I still think that if you are anxious you should ask your vet to come out and take a look, if only to reassure you that everything is OK. If they're not proving helpful then change your vet, simples.
 

Nocturnal

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The pinkness in the white line could just be bruising. Is the white line stretched at all?

It sounds as if you're on top of the management side of things, so I wouldn't be overly concerned about laminitis unless the horse's feet seem more sensitive than normal. If you are worried, though, it can't hurt to have the vet examine him to make sure.

If he has been steadily losing weight whilst on your current diet, and is now a good weight, personally I'd increase the hay so he has more fibre going through his gut, and so he doesn't drop any more weight this winter.
 

amandap

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Soaking his hay is great. Rinse it as well. I'd restrict his grass as much as possible and feed more soaked hay. I'd add salt (desertspoon daily) and magnesium oxide or calmag to his small feed. Vitamin e may help as well. Exercize is also important, a good walk is better than faster work. Keep to surfaces he is comfortable on and lead if he can't be ridden. That's assuming he isn't pottery and stiff.
Second getting him tested for Cushings and IR. Info here. http://www.ecirhorse.com/
http://www.safergrass.org/pdf/laminitissigns.pdf
 

jackofhearts

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thanx for your quick responses guys.
and yea i do think its a case of me panicing over nothing, as he is showing no signs of lami other then the faint pink line in the white line of his feet. my farrier is very well known for his remedial shoeing and dealing wiv lami horses. and is currently correcting a friend of mines pony who is recovering from chronic lami. so i do trust his word. the vet i spoke to on the phone knows my farrier very well and sed she trusts his opinion if he sed its nothing to worry about then she trusts his word. i think im just freaking out the most over how much he is being fed, if its enough, the vet sed it should b but i was wondering what others fed theres who had signs of lami. and as for not letting him out on frosty grass, its a bit impossible unless he is stabled 24/7. he has his morning hay at sunrise. between 7 - 8am and its in a doubled small holed hay net, hung freely on 1 of the beams in his stable so he cant push the hay net up against anything to get big mouthfuls. it takes him roughlt 2 hours to eat 1 hay net, so if its given to him at 7 - 8am, he wont wonder back out into the paddock untill atleast 9 - 10am, so hopefully by then the frost on the grass would hav melted and if he is able to graze (coz it is very very sparce) wouldnt effect him? i dont know, i mean the only other alternative is him to live in, but as he isnt showing signs other then the line in the feet the vet sez no action needs 2 b taken... ?

argh i dunno, i think i just need to take a mahooooosive chill pill !!
deeeep breaths !!!..... lol

sorry for having a mental breakdown on here, its just knowing what to do for the best.

i think if i do what im doing for the next 10 weeks, and my farrier comes back and his feet r the same i think i will actually have a mental break down then !! lol
 

kerilli

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tbh it sounds as if you are doing it right. just be VERY very wary of frosty grass, it can cause laminitis even in those who have never had it before, I was told - stressed grass is very high in fructans. so, if it's frosty, i would NOT turn him out on grass, whether it is sparse or plentiful.
i'd keep exercising him gently, i'd stick to the very-soaked hay etc... if you worry about his condition, i'd give him more of that tbh.
 

Ladyinred

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What you are already doing is good.. really good. o watch out for frost as my farrier reckons he gets more cases of lammi from horses eating frozen grass than he does from anything else. One section of soaked hay isn't much to keep him going if the frost is bad.. he will soon finish it and move onto the grass. Could you try adding in some oat straw for extra bulk? It won't put weight on but will give him something to chew over until the frost goes.
 

jackofhearts

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yea Nocturnal thats my worry, he will lose lots of weight coz of the cold. i mean i still cant feel his ribs so i know he needs a bit more off but the plan was to get that off over the next year, i dont want him suddenly dropping it all now coz its really cold and hes not getting enough.
i rug him aswell to make sure he doesnt drop weight through trying to keep warm.
and yea my farrier did mention it could just b bruising. but i have no idea where from unless he done it charging round his field.
the only excersise he does is long reigning out on hacks, and always just walk. but we havnt been out in easily a month due to early dark nights and busy weekends running up to xmas.
so when farrier sed it could b bruising, if it is, then got knows where from...?

i think coz its just 1 big question mark is why im so worried.

im a big believer in prevention rather then cure.

so IF it is the start of lami, i wanna feel like ive done everything in my power to stop it. but without going over the top and restricting him so much for no reason.

i suppose i just need to listen to him and he will soon tell me if he isnt happy. but i just feel like his hay is nothing, but i moniter his weight every day at the same time, and i supose if i see a dip in his weight then ill up his soaked hay....

argh !! horses why do we have them? lol
id b lost without him though !!
 

kerilli

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don't forget that digesting fibre keeps horses warm, they have a huge furnace of a tummy in there as they digest! i'd up his hay and lose the rug, if he was mine. can you post a condition pic? or, look at him from behind and judge his condition from the shape of the top of his bum.. if it's M (fat bum-cheeks dipping down to spine at the top!) he's carrying plenty of condition, if it's ^ (spine highest by far) he's prob underweight...
 

tango'smum

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my pony has had laminitis a couple of times.. his feet are pink, through bleeding feet have seperated...plus with the help (not) from a farrier damageing them even more..i now have a barefoot trimmer who is fab...

sounds like you are doing the right thing..just up his night time hay, to 2 sections.. if its that soaked it will be fine, i fed soaked haylage..

p.s heat in the feet is not a sign of laminitis!!
 

OWLIE185

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This time of year Laminitis can be caused by Emerging Encysted small red worm so make sure that you worm specifically for them. They are not detected in a worm count only by taking bloods.

You need to be able to visually see the horses ribs so cut down the grazing more to achieve this but do not starve your horse. Do this very slowly.

Also a useful daily additive to feed is Formula4Feet which was developed by Robert Eustace the vet that specialises in Laminitis.
 

jackofhearts

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im new on here so i havnt got a clue how to upload a picture on here of him. but when i first got him he was a definate peach bum. if u looked at him from behind u could see his belly either side of him too. but now u cant see his belly and his bum is flat. it doesnt fall away from the spine, or look like a big juicy peack like when i first had him, its level/flat with the spine, plus hes not cresty at all either.

be soo much easyer if i could figure out how to load a bloody pic. lol
 

jackofhearts

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This time of year Laminitis can be caused by Emerging Encysted small red worm so make sure that you worm specifically for them. They are not detected in a worm count only by taking bloods.

You need to be able to visually see the horses ribs so cut down the grazing more to achieve this but do not starve your horse. Do this very slowly.

Also a useful daily additive to feed is Formula4Feet which was developed by Robert Eustace the vet that specialises in Laminitis.

he was wormed with Equimax on 20th october. His worm cound was clear but wanted to cover for small red worm like u say, but didnt realise they could cause lami?

never stop learning with horses do u !!
 
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