Easily fizzed horse on box rest - bad doer

[WinstonsGirl]

Hi all,

Wondering if anyone can help, I've got a really bad doer who drops weight like nothing I've ever known and is currently far skinnier than I ever hoped coming into winter... She's on box rest for a tendon injury for another 5 weeks and then I'm hopeful she will be able to start rehabbing. Need to put more weight on her before I can take her swimming, start long lining and eventually get back on her as she's got so much muscle wastage already and we're part way through week 7 of (hopefully) 11....

She's also one of these horses that will NEVER finish a hay net and you struggle to get food into.... even when she's out in the field, she will stand and wait to come in.

She's currently on ad-lib hay, 1/2 scoop of fast fibre and scoop of stroppy mare in the morning and then 1/2 scoop of fast fibre, 1/3 scoop of speedi beet, scoop of stroppy mare, scoop of joint supplement and 15ml of rice bran oil...

I thought about putting her on haylage as she's more interested in that but I'm worrying about if that will fizz her too much being on box rest... Don't know if there is any food out there that's better? Has anyone had a similar situation and done something different?

 

[SO1]

I have the opposite problem with a good doer on on box rest for a tendon injury who is getting fat.

In terms of calming I would recommend steady up from Feedback to help her relax and settle on box rest.

Good luck I hope she heals well.

 

[WinstonsGirl]

Thank you! Good luck with yours too!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

How old is she?

That is a lot of feed that is not particularly good for putting on condition and it should really be split into 3 feeds a day, have you tried adding some micronised linseed?

Do you weigh your hay so you actually know what she is eating?

I would also be a bit worried if she really is struggling on so much food maybe a chat with you vet about it.

 

[WinstonsGirl]

How old is she?

That is a lot of feed that is not particularly good for putting on condition and it should really be split into 3 feeds a day, have you tried adding some micronised linseed?

Do you weigh your hay so you actually know what she is eating?

I would also be a bit worried if she really is struggling on so much food maybe a chat with you vet about it.

She’s 8 years old but has had a really hard start in life having been abandoned numerous times and starved quite a lot… having said that though, she doesn’t gulp down food like you’d expect. It does seem like a lot of feed but that will take her between 3 and 5 hours to eat just that tub and then the hay on top… She has a full stuffed haynet as she’s on ad lib and there is always half if not more left either at night or in the morning.

Im weary of micronised linseed with her because I put her on pink mash at the start of the year on people’s recommendation when she was out competing most weekends and she fizzed to the point she was nearly unrideable and I couldn’t compete her! So whilst it doesn’t heat most horses, she was horrific on it!

Ive spoken to so many people about her dropping weight and the fact she picks and chooses when she eats (honestly it’s like having an anorexic horse!!) and it just seems to be who she is… she’s been with me nearly two years now and always needs feeding up or she gets too skinny…

 

[Hepsibah]

Fast fibre is better for good doers who need to lose weight. You would do better with food that doesn't need to be soaked as the same volume will have more calories. Alternatively, soaked sugar beet is higher in calories if she doesn't go for nuts or mix and you can add a slosh of vegetable oil to increase it further - up to 8fl oz. You could also consider switching to haylage as a net filled with haylage has more calories than the same net filled with hay.

 

[WinstonsGirl]

Fast fibre is better for good doers who need to lose weight. You would do better with food that doesn't need to be soaked as the same volume will have more calories. Alternatively, soaked sugar beet is higher in calories if she doesn't go for nuts or mix and you can add a slosh of vegetable oil to increase it further - up to 8fl oz. You could also consider switching to haylage as a net filled with haylage has more calories than the same net filled with hay.

Thank you. Only went with fast fibre as was told it would be good for hind gut health while she's on box rest and not moving around. I've put her on oil before and she will just point blank refuse to eat it which obviously causes more issues than it solves. She seems to absolutely love wet, sloppy, soupy kind of food and if its too stodgy then itll be there all day... *insert eyeroll here* lol! She has 1/3 scoop speedibeet in the evenings just to make it a bit more palatable... Is it worth just moving her to that on its own (with the other bits) instead or will that be heating?

Haylage, I thought about haylage but with her being a Standardbred (so like a TB) shes already off her rocker anyway and don't want to put her on haylage and find her climbing the stable walls... Having said that though, when I put haylage in for her for a week, she was demolishing it at speed unlike the hay... I've read allsorts that haylage affects some horses and not others... I've just worried about trying it with the damage being to her DDFT and fluid between the DDFT and Check ligament.... I've got (hopefully) just under 4.5 weeks left of solid box rest and then can start her swimming at which point it may be that she can have the haylage as she'll be doing something to burn the energy? Am I being silly? Do I just bite the bullet and stick her on haylage mixed with hay and try and get the weight back on her now?

I probably sound like a worried nelly but she's a blinking nightmare anyway, gets turned out for about 30 minutes a day for gentle grazing in a stable sized paddock and comes in sooner if she's a loon so would like to keep her semi sane so she can keep getting her "outdoor time" without breaking herself futher! She's my eventer so would really like her properly fixed without risk of her fully doing the tendon in the not too distant future!

 

[Hepsibah]

My experience is more with good doers prone to laminitis than hot headed warmbloods but my understanding is that high NSCs cause energy spikes that can heat up a horse in the same sort of way that it can trigger a laminitis episode. Unlike laminitis, you need higher energy generally but you still need it to be low in NSCs to lower the risk of fizz. The more meals you can split the ration into the better too as there is less risk of a spike in energy if she gets four meals than if she gets two.
If it were me, I would give just the sugar beet with a powdered general supplement and salt and try her with the haylage alongside the hay in small amounts to see how she goes with it. If it doesn't cause her to hot up it would be ideal for weight gain as the NSCs are lower in haylage than in hay but it is higher in calories.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

She’s 8 years old but has had a really hard start in life having been abandoned numerous times and starved quite a lot… having said that though, she doesn’t gulp down food like you’d expect. It does seem like a lot of feed but that will take her between 3 and 5 hours to eat just that tub and then the hay on top… She has a full stuffed haynet as she’s on ad lib and there is always half if not more left either at night or in the morning.

Im weary of micronised linseed with her because I put her on pink mash at the start of the year on people’s recommendation when she was out competing most weekends and she fizzed to the point she was nearly unrideable and I couldn’t compete her! So whilst it doesn’t heat most horses, she was horrific on it!

Ive spoken to so many people about her dropping weight and the fact she picks and chooses when she eats (honestly it’s like having an anorexic horse!!) and it just seems to be who she is… she’s been with me nearly two years now and always needs feeding up or she gets too skinny…

Bless her it must be so difficult I have the opposite problem my arabs live on thin air.

I have had good results feeding Equijewel to thin arabs and other skinny horses, it didn't fizz them up at all and although it's not cheap you don't have to feed loads of it.

You could try Timothy haylage I wouldn't feed the ryegrass type as that can be rocket fuel for some, my arabs can't have that but are fine on Timothy you could mix that with her hay then it might encourage her to eat a bit more.

 

[Birker2020]

Fast fibre is better for good doers who need to lose weight. You would do better with food that doesn't need to be soaked as the same volume will have more calories. Alternatively, soaked sugar beet is higher in calories if she doesn't go for nuts or mix and you can add a slosh of vegetable oil to increase it further - up to 8fl oz. You could also consider switching to haylage as a net filled with haylage has more calories than the same net filled with hay.

I've never really understood haylage. I was taught that you have to feed 1.5 times more haylage than hay as it has a higher water content yet it can make horses fizzy although the more modern stuff doesn't have that effect. Its also a really good source of fibre. I am currently feeding mine the Marksway Haylage which is lasting about 3 or 4 days mixed with hay. I intended feeding it in the interim till I could swap over to hay but think I will let him have it all winter as he needs filling out a bit.

Dengie Alfa Beet is a good source of weight gain as it improves the digestibility of other fibres fed. Also probiotics can help weight gain. And adding oil will also promote weight gain.

https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/buy...p-your-horse-gain-weight-and-condition-764141

 

[Gloi]

Have you had any investigations done into why she is not very keen on eating? Not just normal dental work but possible causes of pain such as a cracked tooth or arthritis in the jaw.maybe x-ray.

 

[NinjaPony]

Re haylage, I fed bagged Timothy haylage to my connie (for breathing issues) and it didn’t heat him up at all and he loved it. It’s actually quite low in starch and sugar. Ryegrass haylage on the other hand was like rocket fuel for him!

 

[Birker2020]

Hi all,

Wondering if anyone can help, I've got a really bad doer who drops weight like nothing I've ever known and is currently far skinnier than I ever hoped coming into winter... She's on box rest for a tendon injury for another 5 weeks and then I'm hopeful she will be able to start rehabbing. Need to put more weight on her before I can take her swimming, start long lining and eventually get back on her as she's got so much muscle wastage already and we're part way through week 7 of (hopefully) 11....

She's also one of these horses that will NEVER finish a hay net and you struggle to get food into.... even when she's out in the field, she will stand and wait to come in.

She's currently on ad-lib hay, 1/2 scoop of fast fibre and scoop of stroppy mare in the morning and then 1/2 scoop of fast fibre, 1/3 scoop of speedi beet, scoop of stroppy mare, scoop of joint supplement and 15ml of rice bran oil...

I thought about putting her on haylage as she's more interested in that but I'm worrying about if that will fizz her too much being on box rest... Don't know if there is any food out there that's better? Has anyone had a similar situation and done something different?

Normally horses that are bad doers have issues with teeth being sharp or they have a worm burden. I take it she's seen the EDT and been wormed appropriately? Its weird that she won't finish a hay net, that would worry be a little. Maybe adding a little haylage so it lasts longer would work. It makes the hay smell nice if its not brilliant quality hay that you are feeding.

 

[bouncing_ball]

I've never really understood haylage. I was taught that you have to feed 1.5 times more haylage than hay as it has a higher water content

Dengie Alfa Beet is a good source of weight gain as it improves the digestibility of other fibres fed. Also probiotics can help weight gain. And adding oil will also promote weight gain.

the same volume of hay and Haylage, the Haylage will have more calories.

the same weight on scales; the hay will have more calories as there’s such a large water content in Haylage.

 

[Birker2020]

The lower DM content compared to hay means that a higher volume of haylage needs to be fed to ensure the horse receives sufficient fibre. This is important because adequate fibre is essential for healthy digestive function, warmth and for maintaining condition.

As a general guide, haylage should be fed at a rate of 1¼ times more than hay, but this can depend on the DM content of the haylage.

Due to its high moisture content, haylage needs to be wrapped to prevent spoilage, by creating an anaerobic environment. This anaerobic environment means that fermentation takes place which results in a drop in the pH to inhibit spoilage causing organisms

 

[WinstonsGirl]

Normally horses that are bad doers have issues with teeth being sharp or they have a worm burden. I take it she's seen the EDT and been wormed appropriately? Its weird that she won't finish a hay net, that would worry be a little. Maybe adding a little haylage so it lasts longer would work. It makes the hay smell nice if its not brilliant quality hay that you are feeding.

Yes, she's been seen by every professional imaginable and she's completely fine and in perfect health other than the damage to her tendon. She has a lot of anxiety around being either left out too long or being in the stable due to being very seriously abused for a long time before I got her. Unfortunately there isn't anything I can do about her stable situation more than I have done.

I am trying to get hold of some haylage now as she loved the Marksway Horsehage Timothy haylage so I think I'll shove her back on that until I can get her out on the grass again. I've also now got her on meadow bricks, 1 haynet with hay and another with haylage as well as a big bowl of mash morning and night and have asked the guy at my stables if he can check when he walks buy and either chuck in another mashy type mix or a treat ball or a meadow brick just to stop her getting bored!

Her stable now looks like a childs playpen lol!!

 

[Weinstein45]

Hi all,

Wondering if anyone can help, I've got a really bad doer who drops weight like nothing I've ever known and is currently far skinnier than I ever hoped coming into winter... She's on box rest for a tendon injury for another 5 weeks and then I'm hopeful she will be able to start rehabbing. Need to put more weight on her before I can take her swimming, start long lining and eventually get back on her as she's got so much muscle wastage already and we're part way through week 7 of (hopefully) 11....
mycardstatement
She's also one of these horses that will NEVER finish a hay net and you struggle to get food into.... even when she's out in the field, she will stand and wait to come in.

She's currently on ad-lib hay, 1/2 scoop of fast fibre and scoop of stroppy mare in the morning and then 1/2 scoop of fast fibre, 1/3 scoop of speedi beet, scoop of stroppy mare, scoop of joint supplement and 15ml of rice bran oil...

I thought about putting her on haylage as she's more interested in that but I'm worrying about if that will fizz her too much being on box rest... Don't know if there is any food out there that's better? Has anyone had a similar situation and done something different?

Immobility due to box rest is not good for digestive health or for the health of the lymphatic system. Moving around aids the removal of gas from the digestive system and encourages bowel movement. As a horse at rest is sedentary, it increases the risk of problems such as . It is important to feed plenty of fibre to promote healthy, normal gut function. Unless the horse is overweight, ad lib forage is ideal.

 

[TGM]

The lower DM content compared to hay means that a higher volume of haylage needs to be fed to ensure the horse receives sufficient fibre. This is important because adequate fibre is essential for healthy digestive function, warmth and for maintaining condition.

I must say that is contrary to most of the information I have read on the subject - most say that you should feed a higher WEIGHT of haylage, rather than a higher volume. It is easy to understand why a higher weight would be needed because of the extra moisture in the haylage makes it heavier than a similar volume of dry hay. (Obviously, there are lots of other factors to take into account such as type of grass, time of cutting etc.).

 

[TGM]

Only went with fast fibre as was told it would be good for hind gut health while she's on box rest and not moving around.

Speedibeet is just as good for the hindgut and is higher in calories too, so I would definitely swap out the Fast Fibre in favour of more Speedibeet. Fast Fibre is padded out with ground straw to make it lower calorie and more filling for fatties, it only has a calorie count of 8 MJDE/kg. Speedibeet on the other hand has a calorie count of 11 MJDE/kg.