Elbow dysplasia in golden retriever puppy

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Emmahi

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We have a very gorgeous 7 month old golden retriever puppy. He went badly lame after a walk 10 days ago. Took to vet, who said it was probably a sprain, put on metacam and rested it. After 4 days he seemed very happy and sound, so took him off medication and did a short walk on the lead. Next day lame again.
Took him back to vet who now has confirmed my worst fear and is X-raying for elbow and shoulder problems. Both his parents are 0.0 elbow scores and very low hip scores, I know a lot of his siblings- none have any problems. He is a good weight and hasn't been over exercised.
Does anyone have any experience with living with a dog with these problems and how does it affect their dogs lives?
The only real experience I have is of a friends Labrador who ended up having a huge amount of operations and a very sad outcome. Any happy stories out there as we are absolutely gutted that our fantastic dog could not have the life we would wish for him.
Sorry for the ramble!
 
Our black lab, who is now 9, was diagnosed with bad elbows at about the same age, she too was very lame. We were quoted £3000 for an op with a 40% success rate and she would need 3 months cage rest. My OH said he could buy 6 replacement labs for that, she was not insured. We didn't operate but just severly restricted exercise. We were told she would not make it past 3 years old.
She is now 9 and works a full shooting season every year, we have always kept her lean and very fit. She cannot run in circles on concrete (playing for instance) that knocks her up and gets feely on hard ground but basically is as sound as a pound. She has a good joint supplement.
There, a happy story for you. :-) Good luck.
I remember the vet rang with the news on the x rays just as I parked the car going to my Grandfathers funeral and I sobbed all the way through it, not for Grandpa but for the puppy. Still, he loved his labs and would have understood.
 
I am sorry to read your post.

A few years ago the exact same thing happened with our Labrador who, like yours was 7 months old and had excellent hip and elbow scores. We were told by specialist canine orthopaedic vet that he required surgery, which we were going to go ahead with, however we were also going away on holiday for 6 weeks and during this time he was in boarding kennels. With the greatly reduced capacity for exercise, jumping up etc over the 6 weeks the lameness resolved and has never returned, he is now 9 years old. The only thing we did was put him on a joint supplement of green lipped mussels and always watch his weight. His elbow has never been x rayed since so have no idea what it would show but it certainly causes him no problems at this stage of his life.

I hope things work out for your puppy, it is heartbreaking when they should be enjoying puppyhood and are having to be rested etc.
 
If the vet hasn't x rayed yet don't panic. 4 days rest isn't long to recover from a sprain/knock, if he was my pup I would put on seriously restricted exercise ie. out on lead for toilet breaks and that's it, for at least 10 days and then review. I don't know if goldens are prone to panosteitis but that would be my first thought if they are.
 
Thank you for your replies. He has now been lame for 10 days-although is sound on the metacam. He hasn't been walked and is on very restricted garden activity (although he chased the cat today!) I had googled panosteitis and that would be a good result, will have to wait until Tuesday's X-rays ��
 
MurphysMinder said:
Fingers crossed for the x rays. Until then I would actually keep him on lead, absolute minimal exercise, whatever the problem it can't do any harm.
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From what I'm told, this would be the soundest advice. 40 years ago, the advice was to keep puppies off concrete at least for their daily environment.

The question that I've asked before, and it remains unanswered, is that 40+ years ago we were aware of HD (which is effectively the same complaint as ED) but only ever, that I was aware of, in the hips of the larger breeds. Despite all the research, the careful and planned matings and our awareness, how come we now see the complaint spreading to other and smaller breeds and despite everything which has gone before, we seem to be in a worsening situation with the complaint now being apparent in forend joints? What is it that we're doing which is so wrong? The gene pools for both Labs and Springers are vast, but still there seems to be a genetic predisposition to the condition. There's no point to the work-bred or the show-bench blaming the other because it would be rare for cross-matings within the separate disciplines and the complaint exists in both branches.

Sensible breeders, or at least those who rear pups (and foals too) will be aware that OCD can be triggered by too rapid a growth rate, and the wise will address the problem, but HD and now ED? Have we really made any progress in the last 40 years or has the situation worsened?

Emmahi, I'm sorry to hear of your problems, it must be disheartening in the extreme, and all that I can suggest is that you now do what ever you can to somehow reduce whatever aspect it is which 'may' appear to worsen the situation. HD is a horrible and cruel complaint. You and your pup have my sympathy.

Alec.

ets, and as an afterthought, it seems that most of the Hound breeds seem to be clear of ED and HD. I wonder why? Does anyone know of any hunting packs where there are or have been cases?
 
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Emmahi - wait until you've seen the xrays and go from there. There's many shades of ED and sometimes things as simple as a fit dog on supplements or joint injections can sort it out.

Alec - we've been over this before but your assertion that the gene pool for springers and labs is "vast" is simply wrong, they are both very narrowly bred breeds due to the use of popular sires. Diagnosis increases have more to do with owners now treating dogs differently and the surge in vet treatment for pets vs the James Herriot era and also to advances in diagnostic tools/methods.
 
druid said:
……..

Alec - we've been over this before but your assertion that the gene pool for springers and labs is "vast" is simply wrong, they are both very narrowly bred breeds due to the use of popular sires. ……..

Diagnosis increases have more to do with owners now treating dogs differently and the surge in vet treatment for pets vs the James Herriot era and also to advances in diagnostic tools/methods.
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If that's the case, and considering that the Cocker who won the championship in 2012-13 had over 100 coverings in the next year, why aren't Cockers similarly affected, and specifically with joint dysplasia? Foxhounds, and bear in mind that most packs are generally 'closed' seem to be unaffected. Considering Salukis, Afghans and Whippets, for instance, the show winning dogs will be used extensively, I'd have thought, but still, and as far as I'm aware, again they seem to (for now) remain clear.

Diagnosis techniques haven't really altered, the evidence being visible even to the layman and for all to see. One only needs to watch a dog move to be able to see any joint deformity and x/rays generally only confirm what's obvious. The evidence of a situation which is spreading to other limbs and in dogs where it was never before known, and dogs which are simply bred to work, with little or no evidence of red ink continues unabated.

Explaining the situation by simply laying the cause at the door of popular sires cannot be the answer, in my view. Working English Pointers, and those which succeed in trials will be used extensively, but again, I'd doubt that dysplasia is evident. Perhaps Dry Rot will have an opinion, considering his considerable experience with EPs.

Alec.
 
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Emmahi - I would definitely agree with MM about restricting exercise for the time being to lead only and just out for the toilet and back in again. Crate rest is good if your dog is crate trained - and give him something such as a raw, uncooked bone or stuffed kong to keep his brain occupied. It is a daunting prospect trying to rest a young and bouncy pup, but it really is the only way until you get a firm diagnosis. (One of our 12 month old collie dogs broke his femur earlier this year and had to have 9 weeks of crate rest, which - as I am sure you can imagine - was a dismaying prospect, but he did just fine and is now fully mended and back to work).

Goldens can suffer from panosteitis, and if your vet hasn't mentioned it then I would either get a second opinion or mention it yourself at your next appointment. Pano is a painful inflammation of the outer surface or shaft of one or more long bones of the legs. It is sometimes called "growing pains" and may occur in more than one bone at a time or may move around from area to area, cause a "shifting" lameness that goes from one bone or leg to another, so don't be surprised if he seems lame on different legs at different times (if it is pano).

In terms of ED, one of our collies (now 5 years) was diagnosed with this in both elbows at around 7-8 months. We had to restrict his exercise until mature, but he is now a full member of our working dog team. We expect that he will retire earlier than would be normal for one of our hills dogs and we also give him rest periods after hard work - and Metacam if needed to relieve any inflammation and pain, but otherwise he lives a full and pain-free life.
 
Alec, you are right that hd rarely seems to effect hounds, not sure why.

I would dispute your statement that evidence of hd is visible to the layman. There have been many incorrect diagnoses by "laymen" and even vets using just the naked eye, and x ray has told a different story. I personally had a GSD with atrocious hips who never showed a days lameness in her life, was still winning veteran classes at aged 11 and everyone commented on her excellent movement.


HD was around in smaller breeds years ago but just not recognised. In 1978 I had a young JRT who was lame on a hind leg, rest didn't help. I told my vet I was worried about her hips and he basically laughed at me and said "you GSD breeders are paranoid about hips". She was x rayed at my insistence and guess what, she had severe hd. She had surgery to remove the femoral head and went on to live a long and happy life. In those days her hydrotherapy to help recovery was swimming in the canal. :)
 
Alec Swan said:
The question that I've asked before, and it remains unanswered, is that 40+ years ago we were aware of HD (which is effectively the same complaint as ED) but only ever, that I was aware of, in the hips of the larger breeds. Despite all the research, the careful and planned matings and our awareness, how come we now see the complaint spreading to other and smaller breeds and despite everything which has gone before, we seem to be in a worsening situation with the complaint now being apparent in forend joints? What is it that we're doing which is so wrong? The gene pools for both Labs and Springers are vast, but still there seems to be a genetic predisposition to the condition. There's no point to the work-bred or the show-bench blaming the other because it would be rare for cross-matings within the separate disciplines and the complaint exists in both branches.

Sensible breeders, or at least those who rear pups (and foals too) will be aware that OCD can be triggered by too rapid a growth rate, and the wise will address the problem, but HD and now ED? Have we really made any progress in the last 40 years or has the situation worsened?


ets, and as an afterthought, it seems that most of the Hound breeds seem to be clear of ED and HD. I wonder why? Does anyone know of any hunting packs where there are or have been cases?
Click to expand...

It is a very interesting question Alec, but sadly I have no answers. It seems our pedigree dogs are needing more and more "health tests" done on them prior to breeding and yet canine health, in general, seems to be deteriorating. Personally I would say one of the biggest problems in the pedigree dog world IS the over-use of popular sires and the level of inbreeding we have.

Of course it is not as simplistic as that and with HD as the example, it is known to be a polygenetic multi-factorial disease, meaning there is a genetic component to the disorder, more than one gene is involved, and it is caused by a number of factors, not all of which have been identified. Environment is also thought to be a factor - the type of exercise a young dog has, its body weight, certain diets that cause frame growth that is too fast for the cartilage in the body to keep up with, especially in large breed dogs. As Druid rightly says, diagnosis increase in recent years will also have an impact on figures.

As for your question about hunting packs of hounds - are they ever hip-xayed? Would a persistently lame hound simply be destroyed? I think we have to take into account that many working dogs of the past would simply not have made it to adulthood had they been regularly lame or showed some other disability that impeded the work required of them.
 
My guess is that HD is not found in hounds as if the hound was lame it would be shot.
Doubt very much if it would have its hips xrayed.
Most likely there is HD and ed in hounds but it's never diagnosed.
 
Perhaps because only fit and sound hounds are bred from any weaknesses are naturally eradicated or controlled?
Still, you would think that will all the genetic testing nowadays it should have the same result in breeds that are not controlled that way, and it doesn't. I do think it was our fault older lab got elbow problems, as the children were allowed to knock about with her too much.
 
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