Electric fencing trouble- HELP!

[Fruitcake]

I'm not usually too bad with electric fencing but am completely stumped with this!

I'll try to keep this as short as possible!- Electric tape goes all around outside of field to keep horses off wooden fence. Attached to wooden posts with screw in insulators. Another run with plastic posts is taken off main fence to separate paddock. Powered by battery with Gallagher energiser. Tape up for about a year. Energiser about 6 months old. Battery- leisure battery with huge amp hour brand new today as originally thought problem might be battery. Doesn't seem to be though.

Been around perimeter with power checker thing. Starts off at 10,000v at very beginning near energiser, then drops to 6,000-8,000 shortly afterwards. (Would imagine this is usual though). Goes to a steady 6,000 for about 100m but then gradually drops to 4,000 for a stretch before dropping to 2,000 then 1,000 and then eventually trailing off to no reading at all about half way around.

I have religiously checked for anything that might be causing it to earth and there are no branches etc touching it. Nothing has changed from the set up which used to work perfectly!

If there's a problem, is it likely that it's somewhere near the beginning before the power reading drops? I assume the problem can't be beyond the point where the power has stopped? I did wonder if it could possibly be wear on the tape and a few broken filaments at different points leading to a gradual loss of conductivity. Is this feasible? It is quite a windy area!

Sorry this is so long! Any ideas or advice would really be appreciated!! I'm totally at my wits end!!

 

[Fides]

check the tape itself - sometimes the filaments snap... If you head along with your tester and look closely where it drops off. You may nedto chop a chunk out and rejoin.

 

[kerrieberry2]

I would guess that it would be the age of the tape? I would replace it and I expect it should work fine again! I don't know how big your field is but it should be able to cover quite a distance if there are no breaks and on one strand?

My dad hates the tape, he prefers the rope type, reckons that lasts longer!

 

[ester]

which energiser do you have? poss problem with the tape /broken filaments. It's often worth checking it is well earthed but assuming you're as soggy as everyone else right now that shouldn't be a problem!

 

[Fruitcake]

Thanks.

I did have a look tonight at one part of e tape. Thought I'd spotted a dodgy bit but bridged it with crocodile connector and there was no difference so it obviously wasn't the right place. I wonder if single filaments have broken at different points?

That's interesting about the rope as was wondering that myself. Bought the more expensive tape last year as hoped it would be more robust. Think I might price some rope and maybe go with that. Need something to last longer than a year as need it up permanently.

 

[Dry Rot]

Yes, it is possible for the strands of wire within the tape to break. It is a real pain when you get a break as you have to keep going back, switching off, trying something new, then going back to switch on again, then test again until you find the fault I don't know any short cuts..

I had a similar problem with mine -- all mains electric permanent fencing. Eventually, I discovered I'd connected a section under a gateway the wrong side of the insulator so it was shorting through the ordinary post-and-wire fence!

What you might do is attach a crocodile clip to each end of a piece of insulated electric cable (any old stuff will do) and bridge the sections of tape you think might have a break, then test with your tester again and see if the power is now continuous.

 

[Fruitcake]

which energiser do you have? poss problem with the tape /broken filaments. It's often worth checking it is well earthed but assuming you're as soggy as everyone else right now that shouldn't be a problem!

Yes- suitably soggy for good earth!!

Think it's a Gallagher 800 or something. It's meant to be able to power long runs. Can't remember how long but do remember that when I bought it I checked and it was something like 10 times the distance that I needed it to do.

 

[ester]

no that's prob fine just thought it worth checking particularly as distances quoted are often for single strand polywire not tape (though they are better at that now). I'm not a great fan of horses and rope myself - as it essentially doesn't break if required... although granted some tape can be similar.

Fwiw in my experience not all tape is equal either, having bought some cheaper stuff online I wouldn't again!

 

[Fides]

you can get a cut off button that you can move around to save trecking about

 

[Fides]

also dont use rope - my mare has two white stripes from rope burns and my gelding caught it all round his back leg. fiortunately neither panicked or it could have been a bad outcome

 

[Fruitcake]

Ooh! I like this! I want one. Are they very expensive?

With regards to the rope, I wonder whether to just replace the perimeter tape with rope as there's no risk of the horses getting caught up in it as it just runs along the top of the post and rail to keep the horses off it and to carry the electric to the dividing paddock fences which are movable plastic posts. I could leave these as tape as they're double strand and don't want horses getting caught. Also, being shorter runs, they're not as much hassle to replace as the entire perimeter run.

 

[JillA]

I found tape to be very easily damaged by blowing about in the wind - it breaks a lot of the filaments. I replaced mine with rope as the top strand for the main centre run, on wooden posts with a thinner string half way between it and the floor. Then the thinner string for the rest, either at the top of plastic posts for my tracks or two strands on wooden posts for any permanent configuration. Yes, it can cause problems, but only normally if it is loose, and that applies to any form of fencing. I had one injury in 10 years, and that was some of the thinner string that was left on the ground.
Good rope and string with a good energiser (mine is mains but I know not everyone can do that) means they don't even test it more than once, they don't go near enough to get themselves in trouble.
I like that cut off too - might have to get one of them.

 

[Dry Rot]

My permanent electric fencing is 2.5mm high tensile galvanised steel wire which is almost invisible. I solved that problem my cable tying white tape to it -- in a VERY windy area of the Scottish Highlands! If the tape moves, I just re-tension it and use more cable ties. That has worked well for me for several years now but agree about using the better quality tape.

Edited to say that the tape is purely so the horses can see it. The steel wire carries the electricity.

 

[Shoei]

My permanent electric fencing is 2.5mm high tensile galvanised steel wire which is almost invisible. I solved that problem my cable tying white tape to it -- in a VERY windy area of the Scottish Highlands! If the tape moves, I just re-tension it and use more cable ties. That has worked well for me for several years now but agree about using the better quality tape.

Edited to say that the tape is purely so the horses can see it. The steel wire carries the electricity.

Dry Rot. Do you tie the tape to the wire like ribbons or have another run of unelctrified tape on the posts for visability. I currently have a escape artists trad on the yard who thinks she is a goat..... she ran through the post and rail accross the field, clambered down a cliff and then squeezed through 2 strands of barb at the bottom!!!! Amazingly unharmed but I am hoping main electric might teach her to respect fencing and serve to seperate the large paddock come summer.

 

[Shoei]

My fiend has a dairy heard and make sure the calves go out into a paddock with mains electric to learn, before being put in the fields with battery operated fence. I will never forget the noise a young calf made when it licked the fence! I'm hoping that she learns just from that but she is a bit...... 'different'!

 

[Fides]

My fiend has a dairy heard and make sure the calves go out into a paddock with mains electric to learn, before being put in the fields with battery operated fence. I will never forget the noise a young calf made when it licked the fence! I'm hoping that she learns just from that but she is a bit...... 'different'!

The cows in the field next to mine used to relish this and would tear and chew it for the 'buzz' I ended up having to get mains at 7000v - well than and having a stallion...

 

[OWLIE185]

The electric fence posts should not be wider apart that the length of a single electric fence post. The posts should alternate from one side of the tape to the other. By doing this there is less chance of strong winds damaging the thin electric wire within the tape.

The other thing you need to check is your earthing post and ensure that it is thoroughly clean and if it has an elbow joint in it that this is thoroughly cleaned as well as the bolts holding it together. The metal earthing posts will oxidise with time and then they will prevent the energiser from working as well. High winds may also loosen the earthing posts within the soil and reduce the flow of the current.

I would also replace your tape with new 20mm wide tape. Horses see tape more easily than the string type.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread but be very careful whetre you use electric rope. The breaking strain on it is enormous & my wife carries rope burn scars around her legs from an incident with it. We don't use it anymore & I will be selling off around 700 mtrs of it.

Ensure that the battery is fully charged.

Then if you are losing charge around the fence check the earth. It should be about a meter long & banged well in.

Secondly do not use knots to join tape, you will probably only have half the filaments making contact that you should. Then when you get to the next knot you'll get even less so eventually there will be no circuit & no charge. Always use proper connectors not knots.

Ensure that you have no undergrowth growing up through your fencing as this will lose charge.

When you attach the electric tape to fencing or wooden posts always use insulators. People may say tht wood doesn't conduct electricity so it's alright but when it gets wet is does!

If you decide that your tape is old & tired then buy tape with 6 filaments in it & also check that it is suitable for the length you are wanting to run. Tape does vary & some are only designed for very short runs.

Good Luck

 

[Mananzwa]

If you decide that your tape is old & tired then buy tape with 6 filaments in it & also check that it is suitable for the length you are wanting to run. Tape does vary & some are only designed for very short runs.

The number of metal filaments in the tape has absolutely no bearing on the ability of the tape to conduct electricity - what those filaments are made of is more important. A tape with 3 copper filaments will have a better conductivity than 9 steel filaments. The figure you need to look for is the conductivity measured and quoted in Ohms/meter. The lower this figure is the better it is.

A tape of 1 Ohm/m is better than one of 5 Ohm/m.

 

[Fides]

The number of metal filaments in the tape has absolutely no bearing on the ability of the tape to conduct electricity - what those filaments are made of is more important. A tape with 3 copper filaments will have a better conductivity than 9 steel filaments. The figure you need to look for is the conductivity measured and quoted in Ohms/meter. The lower this figure is the better it is.

A tape of 1 Ohm/m is better than one of 5 Ohm/m.

If they are all snapped it will...

 

[Dry Rot]

Dry Rot. Do you tie the tape to the wire like ribbons or have another run of unelctrified tape on the posts for visability. I currently have a escape artists trad on the yard who thinks she is a goat..... she ran through the post and rail accross the field, clambered down a cliff and then squeezed through 2 strands of barb at the bottom!!!! Amazingly unharmed but I am hoping main electric might teach her to respect fencing and serve to seperate the large paddock come summer.

Sorry, only just seen this post.

I would expect my fencing (2.5mm high tensile galvanized wire) to last at least 20 years so I take as much care erecting it as I do normal stock fencing. Then I tie one end of the 20mm white tape to an end insulator (same one as used for the steel wire) making sure it can't short out. The tape is then stretched alongside the steel wire and tied on the insulator at the far end. I then go back along the fence putting on cable ties every few metres, tying both the tape and the wire together. The wire supports the tape and the tape makes the fence visible. If I could get plain tape (not electrical) it would probably be cheaper and do the same job. Still looking!

 

[NickT]

The number of metal filaments in the tape has absolutely no bearing on the ability of the tape to conduct electricity - what those filaments are made of is more important. A tape with 3 copper filaments will have a better conductivity than 9 steel filaments. The figure you need to look for is the conductivity measured and quoted in Ohms/meter. The lower this figure is the better it is.

A tape of 1 Ohm/m is better than one of 5 Ohm/m.

True to a point , yes copper is more conductive but it will also break in a fraction of the time that stainless steel conductors will last.
The best compromise is thick stainless steel conductors on a heavy tape, but this costs more than a light tape with thin stainless steel conductors .
Re 2.5mm high tensile yes it is very strong and does last years and years but it has no give so if things do go wrong it would cause more harm than a tape would.
If you are still stuck and need some help you are welcome to call us for some advise.

nick

 

[Dry Rot]

True to a point , yes copper is more conductive but it will also break in a fraction of the time that stainless steel conductors will last.
The best compromise is thick stainless steel conductors on a heavy tape, but this costs more than a light tape with thin stainless steel conductors .
Re 2.5mm high tensile yes it is very strong and does last years and years but it has no give so if things do go wrong it would cause more harm than a tape would.
If you are still stuck and need some help you are welcome to call us for some advise.

nick

Eh?

Try running your finger along the edge of tape. Then try steel wire.

I've been using 2.5mm steel wire on permanent fences here for 30 years to contain sheep, cattle, and horses and never had a single animal cut from it yet.

 

[NickT]

Eh?

Try running your finger along the edge of tape. Then try steel wire.

I've been using 2.5mm steel wire on permanent fences here for 30 years to contain sheep, cattle, and horses and never had a single animal cut from it yet.

Most livestock can me fenced very effectively by 2.5mm wire but if an animal runs in to it ( in fright ) it will not give or snap , tape will . 2.5mm wire has a break strain of 500kg + a really really good 40mm tape is 180 -200 Kg break strain. Horse can run faster than cattle or sheep and can have a fair mass. At the end of the day thankfully most live stock is never injured by a fence but there is always an exception .....

 

[Cahill]

try adding another earth stake?

 

[Mike007]

Lean a metal rod eg an old fashioned electric fence post against the tapeBeyond the problem ,then walk along the fence.You will hear the damaged area "Cracking"

 

[Fruitcake]

Thanks everyone!

I've replaced the tape with very high conductivity polywire. (It only goes along the top of the existing post and rail perimeter fence so there's no chance of a horse getting tangled up in it). I've left the tape attached as the horses seem to respect it by sight and resist chewing the rails- not sure if they'd have the same respect for the polywire at first. Also, taking it all down seemed like a mamouth task so I thought I'd try something similar to Dry Rot and leave it in situ infront of the new polywire.

All seems well! The power checker is showing current right at the end of the run so I'm assuming the problem was degraded filaments within the tape. (It was only a year old!! Although it is a very windy spot so I'm putting it down to that).

I've yet to try attaching the temporary runs of tape which we use to separate paddocks. (I'm going to leave these as tape as don't want to risk any injuries). I assume crocodile clips on either end of a bit of lead-out cable will serve to attach polywire to tape?

Thanks again, everyone!