Electric shock collars

[Serenity087]

Does anyone have one I could loan for a while or buy? My puppy needs to learn the concept of punishment for not coming when called. Had plenty of room to train my last dog, but are surrounded by too many roads now.

Ta!

 

[Bert&Maud]

Don't usually post in Dogs, but caught sight of your post. Have you used one of the collars before? They are pretty severe, and IMO not suitable for training puppies, especially not as "punishment". In the wrong hands they can cause huge distress to the dog. I used one on our lurcher who was two years old when we got her, and, in true lurcher fashion, up for chasing anything that moved. We are surrounded by sheep farms here, so chasing needed to be curbed. We borrowed a collar, and at the point when she lowered her head preparing to chase, pressed the button, without voice commands. Within a week we could walk her through a field of sheep without problems, as she associated the thought of chasing a sheep with the sting of the collar. 9 years later she still does not chase sheep. However, I would not have used the collar on her for any other purpose.

 

[flowerlady]

I think these are cruel.

Time spent training is the best way.

There is no substitute or quick fix especially on a puppy. OH takes our Labrador on shoots one of the other men who beats has one of these collars and OH says the dog really yelps and all the others do not like this person because of this. Please do not put this on a puppy just spend the time a puppy needs to train.

 

[fruity]

right first of all how old is the puppy and what breed is it? if you don't want to ruin your dog then please DO NOT get a electric collar if you have tried everything incl enquiring at your vets for more help (some vets run free nurse clinics,there they can give you some tips on recall etc) then instead of an electric collar there are spray collars that omit a harmless citronella spray and it's more the feel of the air on their chin than the spray that makes them stop in their tracks,it's designed to make them associate running off with the spray.The minute the dog turns to come to you you must reward it straight away,soon your dog will associate you with being safe.It only needs to be used a few times and then your dog will be recall trained probably,it shouldn't be used long term.
ONLY think of this as a last resort and i would def recommend that even if it is a last resort you do not put it on your dog until it's at least a year old.

Please try to get help from a experienced source before going it alone.You need patience with young dogs and it does seem that you havn't much of this.

 

[k9h]

These collars are NOT cruel in the correct hands.
I had one used on my old girl (she was 2 at the time) as she was a young pup in the foot & mouth time (1st time round) & so could not get her out with stock to train her.
She use to chase sheep to play with. Once they were cornered she would stop & get borded she never touched them. BUT chasing is just as harmful to sheep & getting hold of them. She actually chased a lamb into a pond which drowned. I come from a farm & will not tollerate behaviour like this. The collar was the last resort.
I didn't use it but & very experienced dog person.
It was only used twice on her in the correct manner. (I held it whilst I was shocked with it as only fair if doing it to her)
After these 2 times she has never needed to have the collar on again & I can happily walk her through sheep /lambs off lead & she will not even look at them.
I was at the stage where I would of shot her myself if she had chased again, so the electric collar did save her life.
They are only 'bad' in the wrong hands like any equipment, be it a snaffle bit.

I am not commenting on the OP as I do not know the whole story or the individual. But from personal experience it saved my dogs life & YES I would of shot her personnally if she had chased another sheep.
She does not need to wear it since then which lots of people assume that they need to to remeber. If used correctly.
You hit the button which only gives one zap even if you hold it down it will not constantly zap them. Then as the dog turns wondering what has happened you are there calling them in with a happy place for them to go too. You then praise them on their return.
BUT I would only get someone who knew how to use them correctly to use one.
I have lso seen a dog ruined by one & since it being used as rarely wagged it's tail (never with owner there) This is a higly trained gun dog. He has never worn the collar since his 'training' but the 'damage' was done. Though he does work very well.

 

[MizElz]

We intended to use one as a last resort for our Labrador, who insisted on eating dog muck when she was young - even whilst it was coming out of the other dog's bum

One of our farming friends had a collar; he'd used it to stop his dog running away, and suggested that we give it a go. We put it on her and were ready to use it if we caught her up to no good - but it was like she knew! Never truly understood how or why she stopped, but we never needed to zap her. Maybe she just grew out of the habit! But we were quite relieved that we did not have to use the collar in the end - I would say it is a desperate measure. I do not think they are cruel when used in the right hands. No different, IMO, to letting a horse get a shock from an electric fence to teach it to respect boundaries.

 

[flowerlady]

I disagree with all the posts that say this is not cruel.. Maybe you shoud put it around your neck and give it a zap (not just your wrist!) Or better still get someone else to zap it with your hands tied behind your back so you can't take it off.

 

[k9h]

I won't disagree that it wasn't uncomfortable the 2 times she was zapped (it was not on the highest setting, which I got zapped with)

But this saved my dog from a bullet THAT I woud of given her should she of chased sheep again. She has since had 6 years happy no zapping life.
So which would of been cruler? To shoot her with a bullet from a gun & end her life or 2 zaps from an electric collar (which were more of a tickle than an electric shock) & then being spoilt rotten for the rest of her life ruling the house & running free in the field no matter what stock is in them?

 

[flowerlady]

Why would you have had to zap her. You could have given her to a good home where there was no sheep?

 

[MizElz]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with all the posts that say this is not cruel.. Maybe you shoud put it around your neck and give it a zap (not just your wrist!) Or better still get someone else to zap it with your hands tied behind your back so you can't take it off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can completely understand why you feel that way; however there are certain cases where I think an electric collar may be a last resort - such as in K9's case. If using one has meant her dog has evaded euthanasia, surely that is a good thing!?

No kind of physical punishment or restraint - however you want to look at it - is designed to be a pleasing and happy experience; I guess that's the whole concept of a short, sharp shock. In our case, having a dog that was constantly eating dog muck and then throwing it up in the house was testing us to the limit - we tried everything: calling her away, watching her as much as possible, ensuring that mess was cleared away the minute it was produced - and all to no avail. We tied her up, and she used to yelp and twist and cry to try and get away. IMO, that is crueller than the quick single shock a collar would give! Of course, in my case it is irrelevant, as we never got to use it. But, each to their own I suppose! I wouldnt call it cruel; I would, however, say it is a less than favourable method. But it has its place.

I liken it to using a chiffney on a horse. That is normally a short, sharp shock - not nice, and possibly cruel in some people's eyes - but boy, I've never had it fail me yet! Of course, some people think dogs should be looked upon differently, but to me they are animals, first and foremost, and need to learn respect as such.

 

[MizElz]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you have had to zap her. You could have given her to a good home where there was no sheep?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh God - that is a crazy thing to say

Why try to 'cure' a horse that rears? Why not just sell it to a circus?

Why bother gaining expert advice or putting a muzzle on a dog that is known to bite? Why not just sell it to some rough, tough louts so that they can utilise its unsociability by terrorising the neighbourhood?

Why bother persevering with a horse that stops, even though you know it has an amazing jump when it puts its mind to it? Give it away as a companion instead!

Are you honestly saying that K9 should have given her beloved dog away rather than use a very quick and effective method to cure the problem? Are you really that defeatist!???!

I am stunned

 

[flowerlady]

I think you have misunderstood. My question to K9 was why would they have had to bullet the dog. They could have just given the dog to a good home where there was

No sheep.

The dog was not dangerous so why shoot it?

 

[CAYLA]

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone have one I could loan for a while or buy? My puppy needs to learn the concept of punishment for not coming when called. Had plenty of room to train my last dog, but are surrounded by too many roads now.

Ta!

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe try the concept of reward for coming rather than rushing in with an electric collar for not....the word puppy also does not sit well...how old is he?
What else have u tried in regard to recall techniques/long line e,t,c as keep allowing him off lead whilst the problem is on going will only make matters worse....u need to start from basics.

QR
I do not agree that the electric collar is cruel..if used correctly and for the correct reasons that could otherwise see a dog destroyed, it can be a usefull training method...esp for more hardier breeds and those with a powerfull instinct of some king, i.e chasing live stock, they have no doubt saved many a dogs life......I don't see a reason to pass the dog on to a home with no sheep...the dog could end up anywhere

...there is no such thing as always finding a good home, I personally would like to deal with the problem than part with the dog.
As suggested the sound emmiter will take over from the shock to teach the assosiation, a response learned very quickly after 1-2 shocks.

 

[MizElz]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have misunderstood. My question to K9 was why would they have had to bullet the dog. They could have just given the dog to a good home where there was

No sheep.

The dog was not dangerous so why shoot it?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you said why would she have to ZAP the dog - which, given K9's story, I took to mean "why would you have to give the dog an electric shock." Sorry if that isnt what you meant, but that is exactly how it read!

Now as far as the shooting is concerned, it is pretty commonly known for farmers to shoot known sheep worriers, so this would have been a realistic situation had the dog continued chasing sheep. I agree, that had it come to it, then there could possibly have been other options for the dog other than ending her life, but without knowing the whole story, we cant really judge! But.....if this situation comes down to the idea of whether it is best for
a) K9 to use an electric collar to stop her dog chasing sheep, thus enabling her to keep the dog and allowing the dog to lead a normal life
b) K9 to not use the electric collar, purely on principle, and instead face either having to have the dog PTS or give it away....

then I know which one I would choose!

 

[prose]

After seeing what happened to my friend's dachshund, I would never use one of these.

I believe there was a Cesar Milan episode where he did use a shock collar (on a blue heeler) when it tried to chase the owner's tractor. So, in life or death circumstances, it's probably the lesser of two evils, if you will.

I've never owned a herding breed, but I've trained my dog to come to the sound of her favourite squeaky toy. It never fails, and that's even in the presence of squirrels, garbage bags of food, families bbq'ing and other such NYC temptations

 

[k9h]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you have had to zap her. You could have given her to a good home where there was no sheep?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it could NEVER be guaranteed that she would not end up near sheep ever again?
Say I gave her to a townie home. What if on the weekends they went to the countryside to walk the dog or a weeks holiday??? Or their cirucmstances changed so she was re homed?

She is my responsability & I know she is safe now for the rest of her life should she ever leave me (which she won't) She has a home for life & should anything happen to me I know the relatives will be fighting for her!

My dog is very happy & loved. She pines for me when I go away, so I don't really think that she was traumatised from the 2 shocks she got 6 years ago.
She is a PAT a dog & goes to hospitals making patients happier.

Gosh she has had such a cruel exsistance.

The fact is, it worked for my dog I was happy to do it & would do it again should the need arise.
It hasn't so far.
I have a young dog that has just turned 2 she is fine with stock as I have had her in with them since she was a pup as I was able to.
My older dog couldn't go into stock as there was the devistating foot & mouth going on so couldn't go in with stock to teach her from a young age. She is half Basset so is very strong headed & opinionated.

 

[chester1]

Electric collar technology is continually developing like any other electronics, so I wouldn't borrow an old one. Older models had less settings and no 'beep' settings. Sledgehammer to crack a nut sort of thing.

If you are intent on going down this route it would be worth finding a trainer who will give guidance on using the new models. There are also different methods of usage so you would need to see which method sits best with you and your dog.

I'm not anti electric collars as such, but personally I'd take it very slowly with lots of thought given to model of collar and method of use and in the meantime keep the pup safe on a lead and carry on with conventional training. You don't say how old he is, but many e-collar trainers don't recommend using it for a young pup.

If you Google "learning to use an e-collar" you'll find a thread on another forum where someone has started a journal about their experiences as a novice electric collar user.

 

[birchave0]

I sorry but there is no replacement for good old fashioned dog training. The worst thing you can do is punish a dog for NOT coming when called.

Please don't use an electric collar, they are horrid. Rember the electric shock treatment used on people on the 1950s for mental health problems!!

Basic training for pups starts at home before your pup even goes for his first work.

All of our pups (labs/cockers) learnt to come to the whistle at feed times. I whistle, they come, the get fed, simple.

You then extend this to training around the house, rewarding with a word of praise and a make a fuss of them, then the garden before you even think about taking them away from home and letting them off the lead.

Please remember dogs are pack animals, unless you are the leader of your pack your dog will not respect you. You have to be the centre of his universe!

Then if they are anything like mine you will not be able to move without them checking to see where you are and what you are doing, and they want to be with you all the time!

if I remember rightly the old shepard's cure for dogs who chase sheep was to put them in a pen with a tup......
A taste of their own medicine!

If all else fails with your pup, send him to me, I've always got room for another

 

[Scranny_Ann]

Have had similar problems with our spaniels ...i.e. not coming back when called as we are on a shooting estate there are pheasants everywhere and to a puppy chasing things is much better! I'm not anti shock collars but do think they are a last resort. I cured mine by continual training. Do you use a whistle or just your voice commands? When mine legged it and refused to come back then i would chase after her and when i caught up with her grab her by the scruff of the neck and give her a little 'shake up' and blow the 'return' command on my whilstle, put her on the lead to let her know she did wrong and keep her on the lead until we got home. I repeated this for some time but it will get thru to them eventually, especially as you hav a puppy.

 

[Scranny_Ann]

oh forgot to say ... you must never punish for coming back ... which is why i chased mine ... i went to her. If she came back, whether is was straight away or with some hesitattion you must priase.

 

[birchave0]

[ QUOTE ]
oh forgot to say ... you must never punish for coming back ... which is why i chased mine ... i went to her. If she came back, whether is was straight away or with some hesitattion you must priase.

[/ QUOTE ]

well said

 

[caths]

The lazy way to train most definitely.

Our dogs compete, work and are also much loved family pets and in over 30 years we've never had to resort to using them even with the most strong willed dog. There are hundreds of alternatives to this its just a matter of working out what's best for your dog and believe me you can it just takes patience and the reward is a happy, well trained dog. In the wrong hands electric collars create more problems than they correct. I believe they are to be banned shortly anyway so roll on that day and that will be one less toy for supposed animal experts to play with! Maybe they should try sticking it round their own necks!

 

[Ravenwood]

Gosh what a lot replies! - haven't read every one in detail but can see there are lots of for and against views.

I am not against electric collars in cases like K9H they can certainly save a dogs life from being shot.

They can be set to an extremely low setting and used in the right hands are very effective however some dogs just know that when the collars not on they are safe to carry on doing what they were!

 

[Serenity087]

So, does anyone have one going then?

For the record, I have over 10 years experience with both the fencing and the remote controlled collers, so I know both how and when to use them. Dog comes to call, whistle and food, unless a bird flies up. It's getting dangerous now.

I didn't ask for a debate on whether it was right or wrong, I just wanted to know if I could get one off another forum user!
Will try ebay, it's less abusive!

 

[birchave0]

[ QUOTE ]
So, does anyone have one going then?

For the record, I have over 10 years experience with both the fencing and the remote controlled collers, so I know both how and when to use them. Dog comes to call, whistle and food, unless a bird flies up. It's getting dangerous now.

I didn't ask for a debate on whether it was right or wrong, I just wanted to know if I could get one off another forum user!
Will try ebay, it's less abusive!

[/ QUOTE ]

why is it getting dangerous?
If your dog is chasing game birds, peg him or keep him on the lead until he learns to listen to you at all times, there is a fine line between having your dog under control and the time he then decides to do a runner.

My OH when training his gun dogs never lets them get more that 10-20 yards away from him when off the lead. He constantly calls them back to heel and reminds them that he is there and to pay attention. Try walking your pup/dog through an area with a lot of birds but keep him on the lead. As soon as he trys to chase check him, it will take a while but it does work, one step at a time.

Good luck, I don't think anyone intended to be abusive!

 

[Scranny_Ann]

no abuse intended from me ... do you have access to an area with a lot of birds/game around you? To start the spaniels training on 'being calm and controlled' around game i keep pup/dog on lead and take them to the area they're likely to get a bit excitable. As soon as they start to seem slightly amused by whats going on around them i intervene with a strong 'sit' command (using voice, hand signal and whistle). Once you get attention walk on and repeat this sitting and paying attention to you. Repeat this time after time they will learn to pay attention to you even in the most interesting situation eventually.

 

[bithiah]

Does anyone have one I could loan for a while or buy?........Need one for my OH , pick your dirty pants up,,,,,ZAP WASH UP,,,,,,,,,ZAP ZAP ZAP LOL

 

[Tia]

I had one but unfortunately I gave it away to a friend. Mine was an Innotek one and they are really really good, because they have the beep setting, the vibrate setting and zap settings.

I only had to use the vibrate setting with my shepherd dog a couple of times and she figured out quickly and painlessly that what she was doing was undesirable. No way could I have done it due to distances involved - it's all well and good people saying "use good old fashioned training" but this is TOTALLY impractical on a large farm!

My husband put our zap collar round his neck and we set the zap to number 7 (out of 10) and he said that it was a sharp tingle, but definitely not sore....and he doesn't have the thickest ruff in the world

.

I have also used electric tape to help my big white dog figure out where she is not allowed to go on the farm - one zap and that reaffirmed that she must not go to that part of the farm.

I'm betting that most who say these collars are cruel, haven't even seen one, let alone had one around their necks

.

 

[Serenity087]

Part of getting one in the first place was trying it out ourselves! You'd never have guessed it hurt our old dog at all, if he had a middle finger, it'd all you'd have ever seen!

The fence version worked a charm on him, but he was that much younger and suffered far less of an attitude problem.

The reason why my dog is getting a bit dangerous is that, unlike before, I'm now surrounded by main roads. I've just lost a cat on them and I have no intention of having a dog running after a blackbird onto them!! I want to take her to the yard and couple her to a dog who behaves, but the majority of them are rotweillers...

 

[mattilda]

Sidles into thread and whispers "I have one you could borrow". PM me if you are interested. It does need a baterry though but it works. It is an older model probably about 5 years old.