Elevator bits and the inability to judge/jump skinny fences... discuss ;)

[KatB]

Just an observation...

We were fence judging yesterday at Winkburn, and A LOT of horses in the novice seemed to struggle with the skinny barrel after the water, either misjudging it and leaving a leg, or running past it at the very last minute....

Something I noticed is a lot of riders hooked coming into it, and got away with it, because their horses head didn't get so high they lost the shoulders... but a lot of riders took a pull, the horses head came up, and they had a run out/left a leg... Now a lot of the horses that seems to misjudge it/run out etc, seemed to be in elevator bits (such as dutch gags, NS elevators, etc..) which I guess would explain the head coming up when a pull was taken

Obviously ( ) the ideal way to ride it would have been to set up further back, and therefore be able to ride forwards to it, but that is obviously easier said than done...

SO, do you think the bitting arrangement can make a different to horses ability to judge a fence?! I know there is a certain XC "god" who hates elevator bits with a passion, as she states horses just cannot judge a fence in them, and has regularly been seen to remove them off horses she is teaching...

Thoughts?

 

[Weezy]

TBH Kat I think there is a LOT of lazy riding when people use elevator bits. They think that they take a pull, the horse's head comes up, that the horse is on it's hocks, when it really very much is not.

I do like elevator bits and they really help my big, long, gangly horse, but just taking a pull isn't enough...if you are not engaging the horse with seat and leg and controlling the shoulders, then all that is happening is resistance in front, which is what you were witnessing.

 

[diggerbez]

i think there is probably something in it if you are taking a pull and then the horse is sticking ears up your nose it must affect your steering...my little TB was terrible for doing this and often jibbed out to the side, but this pretty much stopped when i put him in a pelham because it didn't have the same action and he didn't chuck his head up if i took a pull...this was, admittedly, not at novice height mind!

 

[alwaysbroke]

Must have been interesting watching so many. Would agree that that having the horses head up must have an affect, it used to be H's party trick while jumping (in a snaffle), and he used to dodge out to the side, seems alot better now his head is in a more acceptable, able to ride him position.

Do you think it can also affect the shape a horse makes over a fence, flattening rather than making a nice shape, or Weezy points out its the lazy riding and the horse isnt on its hocks?

 

[KatB]

Well tbh, the fence was after a small incline... so in theory the horse should have been on its hocks naturally.. I do think they can effect the shape over a fence too... in some cases

**disclaimer**Just to point out I'm not anti elevator bits on the whole, just I think people put them in without knowing what they do, and so they can make some horses react by throwing their heads up... some horses will accept them readily without that reaction...

 

[Thistle]

Did most horses run to the left of the fence (right as you were looking at it).

The line we walked was to come out of the pond on the right and let the fall of the ground from right to left put you straight for the barrel.

We reckoned that if you came out of the pond straight in the middle you would be off your line by the barrel.

 

[KatB]

Nope! A lot ran out to the right (left as we looked at it), most came out of the pond on the right hand side...

 

[Optimist]

So, you were at the water, must have been rather stressful as there seemed to be an awful lot of falls/near misses! Any idea what was causing it? It was a simple run through with a fence before and, as you said, a skinny after.

 

[Thistle]

Perhaps they all need to go back to PC and play the barrel jumping game!

Our little 12.2 would jump a 'block' when it was upright with no wings.

We still play the game with the big horses, it's fun.

can't help with the bit Q, all ours in snaffles. However long cheeks can't be much help with accuracy.

 

[TarrSteps]

Stands to reason any "extreme" bitting has the possibility of affecting performance more than a more moderate influence - that's kind of the point. Like any tool, the stronger and sharper - the more effective - it is, the more likely it is to cause damage if used incorrectly.

Maybe elevator bits cause a reaction that's more easily misinterpreted and/or incorrect for the situation but I think that's true of any bit with a leverage component. Lots of people think their horses are "lighter" in a pelham but then pull like trains in a snaffle, which would suggest they always pull like trains, but the leverage ratio lessens the effect on the rider. Elevator bits are also in fashion now so you'll see them more on any horse that's having any problem - maybe many of the horses wearing them would have problems anyway.

Leverage bits are also notorious for affecting lateral steering. Used as a "finish" on horses with good basic (and continuing) training and reactions to the leg, weight etc., they can be just the ticket. Used to fill in for a deficit elsewhere, I suspect they cause as many problems as they solve.

 

[LEC]

I am not a fan of big elevators and the riders I admire xc do not seem to use them. I think they cause issues as they are all or nothing bits, they also seem to cause a lot of hollowing. There is no middle ground like a Cheltenham Gag or a pelham where you can ask nicely.
I think its Eric Smiley is also very anti them.

 

[icestationzebra]

Those riders that found their line and balanced the canter 3 strides out - THEN rode FORWARD to the skinny generally made it look easy.....

The fence we were actually judging was a rather upright palisade (Nov) with a curved profile. We saw all sorts of approach and there were times that I swear my heart actually stopped - the flat out gallop approach was usually to blame, although the hook-hook bury approach didn't do much for my blood pressure either. I'd like to congratulate James Adams for riding it beautifully on all of his horses and also the young lad in the PN section that jumped it by mistake - it got him eliminated but if it is any consolation (and he's reading) he made a better job of it that a lot of the Novice sections

 

[brushingboots]

For skinnies i think the problem is the shortened width you usually need a bigger width to be able to see a better stride or a stride and also a horse may panic that he wont fit through, its more a psychological thing than a horse thinking they cant do it imo!

Elevator Bits - Not a clue dont belive in them - i ride in a snaffle

 

[OneInAMillion]

I know it's not ideal to use double reins XC but I like to see any elevator type of bit used with them. Especially the NS Elevator the bottom is very strong so by having two reins you can have less of a pull by riding on the top rein, stronger by using both reins in a straight pull or the strongest by using the bottom. However its all personal preference. Also I heard at a recent event a girl telling her friend that her horse doesn't like the bit it uses but it looked good on the horse and made the horse look more difficult so therefore made her riding look better. Now I don't know about anyone else but my sole aim is to always have my horse happy...?!

 

[kerilli]

Also I heard at a recent event a girl telling her friend that her horse doesn't like the bit it uses but it looked good on the horse and made the horse look more difficult so therefore made her riding look better. Now I don't know about anyone else but my sole aim is to always have my horse happy...?!

Kerist. God give me strength...


Anyway... I agree with the comment that just because the horse feels lighter, some riders then believe it is engaged, on its hocks, etc.

Some horses prefer to focus on their fences with a high head carriage, some don't. I think meddling with this can be at your peril...
they were clever horses to run out rather than risk a fall if they suddenly realised they couldn't see or judge the fence, I guess...