Elvis Vetting update - WWYD?

HufflyPuffly

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:( sorry to hear this but I agree it sounds like a lucky escape! Hope you get your deposit and costs back, look on it as it wasn't meant to be and your perfect partner is still waiting for you :).
 

Damnation

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I'm so sorry FF :(

There is a horse out there for you, you could well have had a lucky escape. If the seller had nothing to hide a 2nd opinion wouldn't be a problem.

I also agree that you shouldn't release the Vet Certificate unless they cover the cost of the vetting, why should you pay for someone else's vetting!
 

MrsNorris

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Sorry to hear this, but sounds like it's for the best and what a cheek from the sellers, asking for the vets certificate, it's nothing to do with them! It all sounds a bit fishy to me tbh, still onwards and upwards, I'm also looking at the moment without much success, so I feel your pain..
 

Puppy

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I suspect in reality there's more to it and that I've really had a lucky escape but for now I'm absolutely gutted :(
Heartbreaking as it is for you right now, I think you've had a lucky escape too. I've had a couple of failed vettings when horse hunting, which I was gutted about at the time, but I think I then found better horses (who were sound!). Good luck in your search.
 

ester

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No they absolutely don't get the certificate if they want to sell him to someone else! It has been both your time and your money.

The vet obviously felt something, you want to do dressage and something funky going on in the backend wouldn't have been good, though I am sorry it didn't go better.
 

Stockers

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Sorry to hear this. I don;t understand why they'd want the vets cert - if it's highlighting something they are disputing then why would they want to show it to the p[eople queuing up to buy him?

I wouldn;t release it even if they offered to cough up. There's another horse out there waiting for you.
 

Tiddlypom

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Oh, pants. Defo don't hand over the vetting cert unless they cough up. Remember the 14yo schoolmaster I mentioned on another of your threads, in S.Cheshire? As far as I know, he's still for sale and he's open to any vet. The selling yard is 100% genuine, and have known the horse for a long time. If you've forgotten the details, I can pm you.
 

FestiveFuzz

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Thanks guys, I know walking away is the right thing to do now. My gut instinct went into overdrive as soon as they suggested they'd pull out as it was getting complicated as in reality I was only asking to get a second opinion today or tomorrow with a plan to then move him at the weekend depending on the findings on the second vetting so hardly taking my time over things and not exactly unreasonable given I would at the very least have an exclusion for stringhalt on my insurance for him now.

Absolutely couldn't believe it when they said they just wanted the vet to send them the vet certificate now so they could share it with other buyers and made it clear I was happy for them to have it as long as they pay for it as in my mind I'm still happy to proceed, yet I'm out of pocket as they've now pulled out. Have spoken to my vets and said under no circumstances are they to release the certificate without my permission.

So I guess it's back to the drawing board for now...
 

FestiveFuzz

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Oh, pants. Defo don't hand over the vetting cert unless they cough up. Remember the 14yo schoolmaster I mentioned on another of your threads, in S.Cheshire? As far as I know, he's still for sale and he's open to any vet. The selling yard is 100% genuine, and have known the horse for a long time. If you've forgotten the details, I can pm you.
I have a vague recollection...can you PM details please :)
 

atropa

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Sorry to hear this OP. It does sound as if something fishy is going on, it's just a shame that it's happened with a horse you have really clicked with. The sellers have no right to the vetting certificate, you paid the vet to perform the vetting bearing in mind what you wanted to do with the horse. Suspect they want it in order to fob off future potential buyers with 'oh, he passed a vetting in April so no need to bother vetting him yourself'
 

Clare85

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Sounds like something more going on than meets the eye. If they were confident all would be well with a second opinion then they would be happy to accommodate you. A shame but you may well have had a lucky escape as you say. All the best finding another horse :)
 

Mongoose11

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So, they'd rather him go to a home where they aren't bothered by a potential issue and possibly less likely to treat it/him correctly if there is one!

Do not release that certificate until your deposit and at least half the vetting costs are in your hand. Don't feel too bad - it wasn't meant to be.
 

FestiveFuzz

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Thanks guys. At first I worried I was being a bit harsh with the vet certificate but now feel justified in my decision.

I agree Atropa...they're still annoyed my vet used the term stringhalt without what they feel was a proper diagnosis but if they were that confident it was my vet's incompetence rather than an actual issue surely they'd be happy for me to get a second opinion this week.
 

ester

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A vetting isn't there to give a proper diagnosis and your vet is just using the best description that she feels fits the problem as she sees it with the information she has.
I actually think you were being generous by suggesting you would pay for a second opinion asap but if they think they have other buyers in the wings then they shouldn't need someone else's failed cert! (where they will clearly go look everything else is fine but the vet is clearly hopeless as you would be able to see stringhalt in walk).

The oh it's already been reduced already amuses me a bit, it translates as we overpriced it to start with IMO.
 

FestiveFuzz

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Yeah a drop of £2.5k in 2 months seems a bit much and is kinda irrelevant as it doesn't take into account the findings of the vetting which have had a direct impact on my insurance which in my mind needs to be taken into account when considering what he is worth to me.

Technically it's a passed vetting which was their argument when I said about getting a second opinion.
 
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SusieT

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Sounds like they feel your vet has messed thema round and if he's a good horse they may well have other buyers and at the end of the day they want to sell not waste more time - they may also be worried with or without good reason that more poking will bring more 'official' diagnosis
You are absoloutely right to withold the vet cert unless they pay for it.
I would not use this vet for a vetting again - she has hampered you badly by not advising you to investigate it at the vetting with x-rays to assess for cause and not diagnosing properly.
 

FestiveFuzz

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Originally we were looking to move him on Saturday so a second opinion today or tomorrow would not have cost them anything time-wise. Although the phone call suggesting the owner wanted to withdraw brought to light that he has "always been a bit funny with that leg" which suggests they have some idea there may be a problem.

I've since had a slightly abrupt voicemail from the owner who seemed somewhat aghast that I was expecting my deposit and vetting costs reimbursed if they want the vets cert.

Legally where do I stand in terms of deposit if they choose to withdraw? Presumably this would definitely be returned and it's only the vetting costs in question? Think I'll call BHS before returning her call to check.
 

crabbymare

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Originally we were looking to move him on Saturday so a second opinion today or tomorrow would not have cost them anything time-wise. Although the phone call suggesting the owner wanted to withdraw brought to light that he has "always been a bit funny with that leg" which suggests they have some idea there may be a problem.

I've since had a slightly abrupt voicemail from the owner who seemed somewhat aghast that I was expecting my deposit and vetting costs reimbursed if they want the vets cert.

Legally where do I stand in terms of deposit if they choose to withdraw? Presumably this would definitely be returned and it's only the vetting costs in question? Think I'll call BHS before returning her call to check.
deposit should be returned without question. the vetting only if they want the certificate for their own use.
 

stormox

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But would your deposit have to be returned if he technically 'passed the vet' ie was fit for the purpose for which you wanted him?
As for vetting, I doubt they want it for other purchasers, after all, any sensible purchaser is going to use their own vet. Maybe they just want to see what your vet wrote on it, and how they described the problem?
 

Luci07

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They pulled the horse so deposit back and no, they don't get a free vets certificate which would have cost you over the £200 mark. If you aren't a member of the BHS check your household certificate to see if you have legal cover. Quote the right terms to get your money back.
 

be positive

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I think as they have now pulled out then they should return the deposit, as a seller I can see their side as I think your vet has muddied the water and as you were there missed the opportunity to discuss further options then rather than give an opinion which was that it passed but may have stringhalt, to the sellers mind he passed with a "but" rather than having a solid reason, he may always be funny with that leg for no reason other than he is, that is part of the problem with horses we get used to their ways and sometimes there really is nothing wrong but a vet only sees them at a vetting and should not make allowances for funny ways.

Getting a second opinion from the same practice would put me off as they tend to stick together so if I were selling I would want the second opinion to be independent rather than from someone who is already involved and may well be looking to back up their colleague and justify the "fail".

I would not expect any money for the vetting cert and would not hand it over, it is your property, has no value to them and they should not want or expect to get it.

I pulled out of a sale after one of my horses had passed a vetting as the buyers wanted to renegotiate based on a discrepancy of his age, I was furious that the vet had added 3 years to him, full history was known, nothing was said at the vetting, I was unsure whether they were genuine or just trying to get the price down and pulled out which caused some very angry texts but once you have lost confidence it is often better for both parties to move on, I had no deposit but would have returned that and never expected the vets cert.
 

Wagtail

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I trust the vet as she was the one who vetted H many years ago.

She has said he's showing the beginnings of stringhalt. This was apparent when picking up the hind leg whereby he was snatchy with the foot and then seem to spasm momentarily before placing his hoof back on the ground.
I have taken care of many horses and quite a few of them have done this occasionally or even every time with one or both back legs. None of them had stringhalt.
 

Red-1

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I would be furious if I had paid for a vetting and then they say "He has always been a bit funny with that leg."

The vet has left you in not such a strong position by putting the remark on the cert (so excluded from insurance) but passing (so less likely to get deposit back), depending on the wording you used when you paid the deposit. I do, however, agree with hollyandivy, that if they have removed the horse from sale then they owe you the deposit.

You had not decided not to buy the horse, you had decided to get a second opinion. If they decline you that opportunity, then IMO they owe the deposit.

I would sell the vet cert if they pay the vetting. If they had genuinely not known about the problem that I would have let then have the cert for half the vetting.

They seem highly suspicious, and I think you have had a lucky escape.
 

ester

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Sounds like they feel your vet has messed thema round and if he's a good horse they may well have other buyers and at the end of the day they want to sell not waste more time - they may also be worried with or without good reason that more poking will bring more 'official' diagnosis
You are absoloutely right to withold the vet cert unless they pay for it.
I would not use this vet for a vetting again - she has hampered you badly by not advising you to investigate it at the vetting with x-rays to assess for cause and not diagnosing properly.
xrays would likely show nothing if it was stringhalty!

I am :eek3: that the owner then suggests he always has been funny with that leg and even more :eek3: that she thinks she won't be returning the deposit especially after she has now pulled out of the sale/will not allow a second opinion. If they want to keep your deposit they let you have someone else assess the horse.
 
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FestiveFuzz

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The trouble I have is I've been dealing with a 3rd party (the seller) rather than the owner up until now so everything has been secondhand on both sides.

Seller said the owner was willing to refund the deposit and wanted the vetting certificate. I said I was happy for them to have the certificate as long as they paid for it as I'm currently out of pocket due to them pulling out. Seller said as far as she was aware owner was willing to pay for the certificate. It's only the voicemail that suggests this is not the case.

Thankfully I'm a BHS gold member so currently awaiting a call back from their litigation team as to where I stand legally.

I do appreciate from their perspective the horse may not have ever had an issue in their care, however the fact it's mentioned on the vets certificate means it has been listed as an exclusion on my insurance policy so is something that I have to take into account. Coupled with them getting funny about me getting a second opinion (was even happy to use the other vet practice I've used) I'm beginning to think they are taking the biscuit a bit as I've done everything in my power to give them the benefit of the doubt and try to avoid pulling out of the sale. Sadly at this stage I think I'd always worry something was about to go wrong with him :(
 

FestiveFuzz

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But would your deposit have to be returned if he technically 'passed the vet' ie was fit for the purpose for which you wanted him?
I suspect this is the route they will go down :(

However my vets words were "technically he's passed as in he could go out today and do the job you want, but for how long I couldn't say as his right hind is a concern".
 
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